Should Massacre Mission Stacking be Nerfed?

[Dathayn]

I'm personally not even stacking these missions, but I see no reason to hamper others enjoyment simply because they are innovative and found something that rewards them. Also, I like the design.

The more missions you stack, the harder the ships are anyways. It's not like it's all reward, no risk. The only problem is skimmers, which is being resolved already. I would prefer they buff them, but removing them from the chain seems to alleviate the problems. There is no exploit without the skimmers. Anyone who is convinced there is honestly doesn't understand game design.

I havent seen increased difficulty with stacked massacre missions but would be in favor of it. Difficulty is drama lol

 

[A. C. Dobro VI]

As far as massacre missions are concerned the difficulty of the target is not looked upon,
as the targets are ships affiliated to a single faction, thus the mission is ignorant
to the rating of the ship (or skimmer) you kill to qualify towards completion.

Hmm, fair enough. I didn't actually consider that. Still, most of the time, these mission involve incurring a bounty, which leads to NPC bounty hunters based on rank... there's still risk. And the more you stack, the bigger it gets.

And since cops shoot to kill even for 200 Cr... [big grin]

 

[jasonbarron]

POLL!!!!!!

Nerf? No it should not be berfed. Firstly because combat mission stacking in my experience is not reliable. Its not like you can always find 100M in missions to stack, in most cases I'm lucky if I get two or three totaling some 20-25M that takes me a bit over two hours to do. So it's good money but not "exploit worthy" money. I can make the same in a good trade route or a good CG in as much time. Gonna nerf those also?

Secondly because its not "safe" money. Yes, I feel combat zones are still dangerous, even though I'm in a modded Anaconda, I still get beat up and chased out of CZ's and certainly have lost my fair share of SLF's. So while I've made upwards of 50M once in a sitting, by time I was done I feel I earned every bit of it. In my opinion, combat activity should pay more because you are more at risk.

Leave it be.

Great point. In general, stacking Massacre Missions are usually just very good money, not the stupendous windfall that everybody makes them out to be on the forum (usually people with no experience with them outside of the forum). Nerfing them in an effort to cut down on a perceived exploit to appease the ne'er do wells is only going to screw up a great mission type that allows for fun and interesting gameplay that requires a bit of skill to water it down to the point where they simply aren't even worth doing.

Here's a newsflash for fdev, if they're reading: your missions suck, ok? And that's coming from a white knight fanboy. Your missions and their rewards, with the possible exception of engineering rewards, just aren't worth even looking at. Massacre Missions are literally the only missions that I actually think even come close to being fun, or interesting on their own merits. Knock off the appeasment approach to development and focus on stuff that would benefit everybody.

 

[Bzek]

No, because it's a fallacy to assume they're all from one faction. I've seen the trio of systems I call home provide some interesting combat missions that I could have stacked between six factions and four stations. What's the problem?

The video in question is showing grabbing missions all from the same faction.

Is it even possible for many factions to be at war with another single faction? I am not sure it is possible. If that was the case, and you were grabbing six missions from six factions, I would say that is as far as you can stretch that justification and I would begrudgingly say it is fine. But that is not the case.

 

[d8veh]

Anyone who follows this path is only cheating themselves. When they do patch this you'll have your Conda's and Cutters and no idea how to fly them. The cash won't last long, but the whining will last forever.

"Look at me, I have an A-rated Corvette." Yes, and a docking computer.

Not "anyone" - maybe some. Some that do the massacre missions (like me) have over 3000 hours in the game and have been flying Corvettes and Cutters for as long as they've been available, complete with docking computers. Do you think I have no idea how to fly them? I haven't heard many whining about it. AFAICS most whining threads come when payments have been nerfed, next is people whining that others are making too much money, and after that, it's people whining about PvP.

To justify your comments, would you be able to point me at a few threads where someone is whining that they made too much money or that the're unhappy because they have a Cutter, but don't know how to fly it, or did I misunderstand your comment?

I made ten mil in an hour last night hauling passengers. How much do you need to be happy? Frankly, if you are playing this game to make lots of credits, you're playing for the wrong reasons.

Some of us would find hauling passengers very boring compared with kicking @55 with our Corvettes in war zones, and I don't think it's right to say why peiple should have to play the game your way. many of us get a lot of fun and satisfaction from making billions of credits.

 

[drkaii]

Hmm, fair enough. I didn't actually consider that. Still, most of the time, these mission involve incurring a bounty, which leads to NPC bounty hunters based on rank... there's still risk. And the more you stack, the bigger it gets.

And since cops shoot to kill even for 200 Cr... [big grin]

You don't get bounties in CZs. Or are you talking about something else?

 

[drkaii]

Of course the government is a large host of people,
but as they are reflected as a single faction, isn't
it more logical to think that they are a united hos

So the meaning is important and therefore we are disagreeing on the meaning to decide if it is logical or not.

 

[Julio Montega]

So the meaning is important and therefore we are disagreeing on the meaning to decide if it is logical or not.

To me the meaning is not interesting,
i am more interested in looking into the mechanic,
as the effort to make money with massacre missions is offset
by a great amount (kill pool needed).

If the meaning would be that important,
the universe would be more alive, as background stuff
would get sorted out and there would be breath in the 'verse.
Sadly we face plain mechanics here, not simulated life.

But yes, we disagree there.

 

[A. C. Dobro VI]

The video in question is showing grabbing missions all from the same faction.

Is it even possible for many factions to be at war with another single faction? I am not sure it is possible. If that was the case, and you were grabbing six missions from six factions, I would say that is as far as you can stretch that justification and I would begrudgingly say it is fine. But that is not the case.

And thus the issue again becomes a matter of mission generation and presentation.

Yes, my area is quite populated and the "primary" NPC factions are present each in upwards of six systems, so there was an interesting time where almost all were at war or something. But the mission targets also vary. I've seen the same faction offer missions to kill four different faction ships. Maybe it was Civil War? I don't recall exactly, but either way, I could have flown around for a few hours until I hit 20 missions legitimately... at that point, what's the problem?

Maybe if it's from the same faction, limit it to not bleed over to other missions from that faction, but I see no reason to not have 1 kill count if 2 or more factions all want the same faction dead. But then again, it could also be presented in a way that gives another NPC origin, and if it was two different people placing two different kill orders, well...

- - - Updated - - -

You don't get bounties in CZs. Or are you talking about something else?

Wait, I'm actually not really familiar with Massacre missions, but are people really asking for something that involves CZs to be nerfed? Good god, have any of you actually been inside a CZ?

This whole thread became that much more absurd. CZs are already a pointless hellhole, let's make them even more useless!

 

[rrobes]

I find it hilarious that some money making schemes are attacked as exploits and others are "OK".

The end results are the same, tons of money made in a short time.

Skill level is not a barrier, example is stacking ship massacre missions in CZ's, if you have the right ship, it's shoot till you run out of ammo, synthesize or get more ammo and finish. NPC's are fish in a barrel.

The main difference is that "it takes more time", since extending "game" play, I'll not use the other "g" word, is of paramount importance.

If anyone is making billions as fast as they claim, why was making millions hauling crap so bad?

 

[drkaii]

Wait, I'm actually not really familiar with Massacre missions, but are people really asking for something that involves CZs to be nerfed? Good god, have any of you actually been inside a CZ?

This whole thread became that much more absurd. CZs are already a pointless hellhole, let's make them even more useless!

They are asking for the missions that come when there are CZs (massacre missions) to be nerfed in some way, not the CZs themselves

 

[A. C. Dobro VI]

They are asking for the missions that come when there are CZs (massacre missions) to be nerfed in some way, not the CZs themselves

Well yeah, but those missions would be the only reason to participate in a non-CG CZ unless you're playing the BGS... [???]

And CZs are not for people who don't know what they're doing. Why remove incentive for something with actual risk/skill factor?

 

[drkaii]

Skill level is not a barrier

Speak for yourself

This is hard mate. Either you've never done it or you are a PvE legend who also knows exactly where to go and find the perfect system (which you do not)

To me the meaning is not interesting,
i am more interested in looking into the mechanic,
as the effort to make money with massacre missions is offset
by a great amount (kill pool needed).

If the meaning would be that important,
the universe would be more alive, as background stuff
would get sorted out and there would be breath in the 'verse.
Sadly we face plain mechanics here, not simulated life.

But yes, we disagree there.

I think we just have different brains, my man.

 

[Dathayn]

Finding them def takes some persistance. I'm into my second day of scouting. Worth it once u score a zone tho heh

 

[Julio Montega]

I think we just have different brains, my man.

That is what it boils down to

 

[CylonSurfer]

Its an exploit and should be nerfed. The game never intended anyone to make that much cash in such a short amount of time. Mode switching to stack missions is also an exploit that needs addressing, missions taken in one mode should stay in that mode.

Read the descriptions for the larger ships in game, you'll see phrases like "rarely privately owned" yet we see said ships owned by players nearly everytime we undock. It's ashame and I hope the players using such exploits have their wealth and the ships / module obtained via such tactics removed. Much like the ops mod status for showboating the fleet of ships he dishonestly obtained and sharing the details of said exploit rather than reporting it as a bug. Shame on you, you should step down.

I admit that certain missions have been nerfed too far and that needs addressing and should have been within days of 2.2 dropping but there really is no excuse for this, it's exploiting and should be stopped.

 

[CMDR Zhon Daeli]

I never got this sentiment. It appears very open minded but it means to care about something it needs to have an impact on you. Using "it shouldn't" also implies this should be the case for others.

Well, I care about lots of things that have no impact on me. And so do many of you. We just had a 24 hour livestream proving just that

When it comes to gaming? It definitely needs to have some kind of tangible impact on me for me to care.
DrKaii stacking missions to make a billion credits in a week had zero impact on my life, on my game or my experience. If he wants to power through to a billion credits in a week, that's his call. It's his business.
So, "why should I care?" *I* shouldn't, so I don't. I don't include others, I'm only referring to myself. It wasn't a general question people should be asking themselves, if that's how it sounded.

Outside the game? Somewhat different.

Side note: I never donated a cent to SpecialEffect. Never have, never will. I do, however, donate to animal welfare groups, anti-Rhino poaching groups in particular ( that very much has an impact on me ).

 

[d8veh]

I'm personally not even stacking these missions, but I see no reason to hamper others enjoyment simply because they are innovative and found something that rewards them. Also, I like the design.

The more missions you stack, the harder the ships are anyways. It's not like it's all reward, no risk. The only problem is skimmers, which is being resolved already. I would prefer they buff them, but removing them from the chain seems to alleviate the problems. There is no exploit without the skimmers. Anyone who is convinced there is honestly doesn't understand game design.

Just to clear up any misunderstandings: Some stations offer as many as 50 legitimate kill skimmer missions that allow you to select 20 good paying ones without logging or any other exploit. You can kill them without much skill and with any ship. You can make around 250 million an hour doing these missions. This shouldn't be confused with the exploit(?) of killing skimmers to complete massacre missions.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Its an exploit and should be nerfed.

It's a bad mechanic and should be fixed.

 

[Julio Montega]

Its an exploit and should be nerfed. The game never intended anyone to make that much cash in such a short amount of time. Mode switching to stack missions is also an exploit that needs addressing, missions taken in one mode should stay in that mode.

Read the descriptions for the larger ships in game, you'll see phrases like "rarely privately owned" yet we see said ships owned by players nearly everytime we undock. It's ashame and I hope the players using such exploits have their wealth and the ships / module obtained via such tactics removed. Much like the ops mod status for showboating the fleet of ships he dishonestly obtained and details of said exploit rather than reporting it as a bug. Shame on you, you should step down.

I agree on the large ship argument you posted.
I find it disturbing to see so many large ships being flown,
as that naturally changes a players perspective to large ship oriented
discussions, imo.
This should not be taken up as big ship = bad,
but as:
- if you work to achieve a large ship quickly you skip a lot of the game
- you create a different perspective of the game
- NPC difficulty is something totally different from large ship perspectives

But what OP did here was good, he created footage for the players to see,
that there is a problem in the game, made it public, so that FD can look at the issue
and fix it.