Should ship transfers have a time delay or not?

[Ziljan]

So this is the new megathread. But indeed this is a better displayed poll, considering that the essence of the debate is delayed vs instant.
And the results will be definitely way more explicit

Hopefully this will be the new megathread. The other one has run its course and is on full-repeat. This poll is much simpler. Focuses the issue on the real sticking point.

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Martin got me thinking...
How about they make it something available from your ship's systems panel, so you can "call in" a ship delivery. This way you could do it ahead of time while you're traveling to whatever station. The only requirement is you'd have to have the system data available to be able to target that system/station for delivery. You may or may not still have to wait a bit once you get there (depending on the shipping distance). But this would eliminate a lot of the waiting downtime, while still having a sensible time element in place.

I'm sure someone will come along and tell my why this is a terrible idea. But whatever... just a thought.

This idea was repeated about 300 times in the mega thread. Even in the first 10 pages. It's a good solution. But it shouldn't be instant, or it will be abused/exploited.

 

[Andovar]

This idea was repeated about 300 times in the mega thread. Even in the first 10 pages. It's a good solution. But it shouldn't be instant, or it will be abused/exploited.

Lol...
By the time I even saw that thread it was over 200 pages. I chose not to read through it...

Anyway, the whole point of the idea would be to have a transfer time in this case, but to help make waits a little less "painful".

 

[Moonax IRL]

FD have been given ample food for thought and suggestions in the first megathread if they're interested so I`ll refrain from repeating myself, all i`ll say is the poll is welcome for its clarity.

 

[Bacalao]

Any delay that isn't based on the existing travel mechanics would just be there for window dressing. We don;t need window dressing. If the stated purpose for this improvement is to let players enjoy the content with fewer barriers, then let it be so. A cursory delay would just be for show. We are all adult enough to understand a decision taken to advance game play. Aren't we?

If only...if only...

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Any delay that isn't based on the existing travel mechanics would just be there for window dressing. We don;t need window dressing. If the stated purpose for this improvement is to let players enjoy the content with fewer barriers, then let it be so. A cursory delay would just be for show. We are all adult enough to understand a decision taken to advance game play. Aren't we?

Yup, I can understand a decision to advance game play. There is not one here, though.

 

[Jynessa Loraeyn]

Voted yes.

For me a definite yes.

It makes sense that some gigantic freighter that specialises in moving stored ships (Lynx Bulk Carrier?) could jump further each time if it's designed for that... and so maybe the transfer is quicker than doing it yourself.

Instant transfer is just bizarre to me and kind of silly. I don't mind waiting hours for a ship I asked to have freighted over arrive, even days for far destinations like Jaques. The gameplay advantage for me simply is so trivial compared to how silly it feels.

For the record, once we can get out and walk around, I'd prefer it if repairs, refuelling and loading and unloading of cargo took a small amount of time... and we could get out and watch it happen. I have a feeling that wouldn't be half so popular an idea and is not likely to happen though. But the devs did actually create a concept art and renders of the system for how the cargo containers are loaded on your ship. I saw the picture. ;-;

 

[Bacalao]

The delay could be longer, it just shouldn't be shorter than the time it would take to travel there. Otherwise people will be using fast travel taxis. Tbh, I am all for getting rid of the jump range ecosystem and having all ships have 50 LY jump ranges. I think jump range was a silly way to balance ships in the first place. It should be based on utility of the ship itself. Simply being able to go from A to B quickly isn't nearly as important as what you can do when you get there. It's not like jumping 5 times as opposed to 10 times is some form of enjoyable gameplay, lol. But either way, I am glad we finally have a poll that clearly shows how the community feels about the major sticking point of the suggested "instant" transfer time.

If you want to wait for your ship to arrive, by all means do so. I fail to see how me having to wait as well affects your immersion or gameplay or balance....or whatever anymore than me having a blue HUD does. The exploit argument is about as flimsy as it gets. Also, why do you assume some individual would fly your ship to the destination? If I order a car from New York to Seattle some schmuk doesn't get the keys and drive it across the country, it goes on a boat or a train or a truck and gets shipped. Likewise some huge capital ship barge thing would load up all your ships, tear a great hole in witchspace from A to B and avoid all the pointless jumping, like Farraguts and Interdictors do. Because real life sucks I have to wait for it to arrive, good thing Elite isn't real life, otherwise we'd have to put all those sucky parts into it.

 

[CMDR Pugwash]

We are all adult enough to understand a decision taken to advance game play. Aren't we?

Clearly we're not all adult enough to accept an opposing point view.

 

[MottiKhan]

I voted no. Not because I care, but it wasn't getting enough love.

 

[andrak]

Delay: Yes

Time: As long as it would take the ship with it's current load out if you flew it there yourself.

No fast tracking, no cheating, no exploits.

 

[Ziljan]

The exploit argument is about as flimsy as it gets. Also, why do you assume some individual would fly your ship to the destination? If I order a car from New York to Seattle some schmuk doesn't get the keys and drive it across the country, it goes on a boat or a train or a truck and gets shipped. Likewise some huge capital ship barge thing would load up all your ships, tear a great hole in witchspace from A to B and avoid all the pointless jumping, like Farraguts and Interdictors do. Because real life sucks I have to wait for it to arrive, good thing Elite isn't real life, otherwise we'd have to put all those sucky parts into it.

The "exploit argument" is based on the current jump range ecosystem. It doesn't just mean that everyone will be flying 55LY Anaconda buses, although they WILL. It also means that people who like FDLs will suddenly be paying more money to own them because shipping will always be the less painful option. That is not quite fair, and even if you are a Solo player, you will feel the burn of that inequity with someone that happens to enjoy flying a longer range ship. Also, getting pulled out of your favorite ship to play anaconda taxi is not my idea of fun.

As for the capital ship transport, that is a fine roleplaying solution. I don't see any capital ships making regular station drops though in game, and role playing solutions that aren't backed up by in-game assets frankly don't fly with me. But if every ship had the same jump range, and we saw capital ships flying up to stations every so often, then "instant" transfer would be peaches with me. Until then, my vote is YES, there needs to be a time delay.

 

[Red Anders]

I'd like the delay to be a lot longer than it will take for a mod to close this thread ideally.

I hope they don't because for a simple answer to a simple question, the poll on the mega-thread is worse than useless.

 

[Father Cool]

Yes for sure.

The 'bonus' for me in ship transfers is not so much wanting a ship at my location instantly, it's having a ship I need there (or anywhere for that matter) together with the ship I'm currently in without me messing about all night parking ships, buying taxi's, and flying low jump range ships across the galaxy to find that my valuable time for the night has been lost.

What ship transfers give you is the ability to carry on playing the game and doing enjoyable stuff while someone else couriers your other ship to somewhere that you will need it soon. This can take as long as me flying it for all I care it just means that I don't have to do the logistics of moving it personally and arranging taxi ships. Taking time to transfer the ships would be better in IMO as then it can't be used as a fast travel mechanic to abuse and still allows 'real' none magical gameplay.

Another thought is, to move out to say Jaques new bubble. I can now fly out there and order my other ships to be delivered there also to start my new life. That is impossible currently and with no shipyard at Jaques to buy new ones to replace the ones left behind.

 

[Bacalao]

Delay: YesTime: As long as it would take the ship with it's current load out if you flew it there yourself. No fast tracking, no cheating, no exploits.

And how do we determine how long that would take? Should the game measure how fast I average per system or should it be the average of all players? What about interdictions, obviously if some guy is piloting my ship to another station he'll be subject to the same astronomical amount of random interdictions we all are and if he isn't: MAH IMMERSION! Wait...why would some guy fly my ship to me, why wouldn't it just go on some great big carrier ship and go from start to end via witchspace like a capital ship does? What does waiting add? It isn't a cheat, or an exploit, it just lets me play the game without logging out while a ship is in transit. Ship movement has the potential to enhance the amount we can actually play the game but for some reason an astonishingly large portion of the forums doesn't want it to do that, it wants it to have as little possible improvement on the way we play the game as it can...nevermind the argument that you are totally free to wait all you want for you ship to arrive, but that isn't enough, I must also wait for you to be satisfied.

 

[andrak]

Anyone voting no is a Star Citizen 5th columner

 

[Flavourless]

...Tbh, I am all for getting rid of the jump range ecosystem and having all ships have 50 LY jump ranges. I think jump range was a silly way to balance ships in the first place. It should be based on utility of the ship itself. Simply being able to go from A to B quickly isn't nearly as important as what you can do when you get there. It's not like jumping 5 times as opposed to 10 times is some form of enjoyable gameplay, lol...

I don't buy this.
A standard 50LY jump would trivialise just about everything in the game. All trade routes are now one jump, and mission destinations are only 20 secs away etc.
In the original game jumps were limited to 7LY. Would it have been more fun if you could jump to any star in the galaxy? No. On the contrary.

I see no logical reason why a ship transfer should be quicker than you could fly the route yourself, or with less risk.

 

[Viajero]

*Mod hat off

Yes.

 

[Bacalao]

The "exploit argument" is based on the current jump range ecosystem. It doesn't just mean that everyone will be flying 55LY Anaconda buses, although they WILL. It also means that people who like FDLs will suddenly be paying more money to own them because shipping will always be the less painful option. That is not quite fair, and even if you are a Solo player, you will feel the burn of that inequity with someone that happens to enjoy flying a longer range ship. Also, getting pulled out of your favorite ship to play anaconda taxi is not my idea of fun.As for the capital ship transport, that is a fine roleplaying solution. I don't see any capital ships making regular station drops though in game, and role playing solutions that aren't backed up by in-game assets frankly don't fly with me. But if every ship had the same jump range, and we saw capital ships flying up to stations every so often, then "instant" transfer would be peaches with me. Until then, my vote is YES, there needs to be a time delay.

But as Morghan pointed out the whole transfer delay is nothing more than a roleplaying solution anyway. My ship won't actually be travelling, it won't appear in any mode, on anyone's scanner, ever. You won't be sitting there and watch it dock and drop into a hangar. It will just disappear from one station and appear at the other, the transfer is all in your head. For some reason it requiring a delay to show up at the other end makes that all better? I'm not buying it. As far as flying 55Ly anacondas to move FdLs, adding a delay will not change that, you'll just force a bunch of players to sit there and wait. The delay is nothing more than a chastisement.

 

[Wyaston Hypatia]

Voted Yes.
now back to the mega thread.

 

[Bacalao]

Clearly we're not all adult enough to accept an opposing point view.

Or adult enough to allow other players a convenience we can easily forgo ourselves for the sake of...whatever it is that makes people want to have arbitrary and unnecessary wait times.

Yes for sure.

The 'bonus' for me in ship transfers is not so much wanting a ship at my location instantly, it's having a ship I need there (or anywhere for that matter) together with the ship I'm currently in without me messing about all night parking ships, buying taxi's, and flying low jump range ships across the galaxy to find that my valuable time for the night has been lost.

What ship transfers give you is the ability to carry on playing the game and doing enjoyable stuff while someone else couriers your other ship to somewhere that you will need it soon. This can take as long as me flying it for all I care it just means that I don't have to do the logistics of moving it personally and arranging taxi ships. Taking time to transfer the ships would be better in IMO as then it can't be used as a fast travel mechanic to abuse and still allows 'real' none magical gameplay.

Another thought is, to move out to say Jaques new bubble. I can now fly out there and order my other ships to be delivered there also to start my new life. That is impossible currently and with no shipyard at Jaques to buy new ones to replace the ones left behind.

Allow me to quote myself from the other thread:

Common Scenario: I'm in my little home system with my 20 outfit ships that I like to regularly switch between, I see a mission to move some goods 80Ly away, I take it. I get there and see another mission to move some stuff 80 more Ly. This is the first choice, do I go another 80 Ly (putting me between 100-150Ly from home, about 10-15 minutes of pitch, press J, throttle up mindlessly) or do I just go back home and look for more missions so that I have access to all my ships?
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Another Common Scenario: Everything is the same, I'm 80Ly away and see a mission to kill pirates, but I'm in my T6 having just delivered 40 tons of something or other....I could try to buy and outfit a vulture or FAS here, I have the cash, but I'm in an Agriculture economy...I could take the mission and go back and get my FAS, and then come back (160Ly round trip)...or I could just go home and hope for another mission of that type (the BH sounds fun at the moment after all this couriering)...so it's either waste 10-15 minutes 'pitch, press J, throttle up' to get to the activity, or go home.
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Third Common Scenario: I'm in my T6 or Asp or FAS and I do some data couriering now and again (vicissitude of being raised by a postman), and I see a sweet mission at this outpost to move 150 tons of stuff 75 Ly back toward home....but I need my Python to move it, nothing else has the cargo room to do that from an outpost, let me just go get that....oh wait, the mssion will be gone, let me just order it here and when it gets here I'll take the mission....oh wait, the mission board refreshed twice and it's gone...darn.
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If you want more scenarios I've got tons, it happens all the time that it would be nice to follow a trail of missions wherever they take me, just see where I end up and do whatever comes at me along the way, but I'm in a T6 or a Python fit for trading or combat and I see a good combat or trading mission and I'm fit for the wrong one, and there is no fitting options at that station, so I've got to go hunt all that down.....in effect, invest 10-30 minutes of my gaming time in tedium to get to the activity I want to do, to play the game part of the game rather than the chore part of the game (bless you if you enjoy that stuff and good for you, but some of us don't, we're just looking for an option to avoid it).
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Or, come 2.2 I can just transfer my combat ship and have it and play the game and have fun and enjoy it! Great! "BUT STOP BACALAO, you crazy codfish!" says some of the community "That isn't immersion friendly, you need to sit there in your T6 and wait for that FAS to arrive!". "But if that's the case there isn't any point in ship ordering, I'll just go get it." I reply. "Go do other stuff while you wait." They say. "I'm in my T6...there are combat missions here, which I'd like to do, but I'm in my T6..." I respond. "Well those are the consequences of your actions Bacalao, now go write "mah immersion!" on the chalkboard 100 times while your FAS is en route" they chastise.
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So you see, I would find the maximum amount of utility for ship transfer at sub 300 Ly distances and it's only real value is if it's instantaneous.

Putting a time delay on ship transfer makes it truly useful almost exclusively for re-homing or getting a ship somewhere like Jaque's or OA.