Should there be an 'Open' with Fast Travel Option on the Login Screen

[Vyrsai]

Since there was a poll about having an Open PvE mode at the log in for those who would like it, maybe people would enjoy discussing some sort of fast travel.

Not sure on what type of mechanic that would entail, maybe star-gates that only connect to each other spread out around the bubble? Maybe much higher jump ranges for all ships? Etc etc.

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[2000gmod]

I voted no because of 2 things:

1) It doesn't fit in the game's canon.

2) I can think of a few situations where this can remove some of the things that make Elite: Dangerous good right now.

 

[Vyrsai]

I voted no because of 2 things:

1) It doesn't fit in the game's canon.

2) I can think of a few situations where this can remove some of the things that make Elite: Dangerous good right now.

I agree, just was curious what others think. The canon bit doesn't matter to at least half of the folks that frequent the forums.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

It is possible to get to Sagittarius A* in under 8 hours.
The other side of the playable area in under 24 hours.
It's possible to cross human inhabited space in under 30 minutes.

Fast travel isn't needed.

There is an arguement for those with low playtime but for them that just makes the high jump range ships that bit more valuable which is kind of a balance thing anyway. Sure it'll take ages in a 11Ly ship but that's what you get in a weighed down teched up combat ship.
Although to be fair even at 12Ly you can cross the bubble in under 2 hours so it's hardly that big an issue... It's also pretty easy and cheap to sell ships and re-buy at your destination since modules sell for 100% and ships for 90% value.
Finally I'd add those that want to meet friends only have to travel once to their friends, and there is always CQC for those with little time to invest.

Edit: Having thought about it I've just realised it's often faster to get across human space than it is to get to Hutton orbital!!!

 

[Vyrsai]

It is possible to get to Sagittarius A* in under 8 hours.
The other side of the playable area in under 24 hours.
It's possible to cross human inhabited space in under 30 minutes.

Fast travel isn't needed.


There is an arguement for those with low playtime but for them that just makes the high jump range ships that bit more valuable which is kind of a balance thing anyway. Sure it'll take ages in a 11Ly ship but that's what you get in a weighed down teched up combat ship.
Although to be fair even at 12Ly you can cross the bubble in under 2 hours so it's hardly that big an issue... It's also pretty easy and cheap to sell ships and re-buy at your destination since modules sell for 100% and ships for 90% value.

So having a new mode with fast travel would be fine then right? You could still just play in a mode that didn't offer it.

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

It would be nice to be able to jump between your docked ships, but I don't imagine that will ever happen because we don't even have ship transportation yet.

 

[babelfisch]

So having a new mode with fast travel would be fine then right? You could still just play in a mode that didn't offer it?

We could also have a mode where credits don't exist, still doesn't sound like something that should get added to the game.

In system jumps on the other hand...

 

[Vyrsai]

We could also have a mode where credits don't exist, still doesn't sound like something that should get added to the game.

In system jumps on the other hand...

In system jumps sounds cool. As far as creditless goes I guess if enough players wanted it, why not?

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It would be nice to be able to jump between your docked ships, but I don't imagine that will ever happen because we don't even have ship transportation yet.

Quick travel to docked ships, nice suggestion. I'm sure many would thoroughly enjoy that.

 

[Robert Maynard]

So having a new mode with fast travel would be fine then right? You could still just play in a mode that didn't offer it.

As fast travel would offer a distinct advantage for exploration, as one example, it would need both a separate mode and a separate BGS - otherwise exploration using fast travel would be the default - so not really a case of "don't use it if you don't want to", in my opinion.

Trading rares as another example. Long distance smuggling as a third.

 

[JohnnyDangerous]

It's not an intended way to play this game (by that I mean it was supposed to be a one ship, carry it all with you sort of affair) but once we were able to store ships and therefore keep multiple builds (Explorer Asp, Combat Vulture, Cargo Python etc) we should get a logical way to move from ship to ship without buying a "travel sidewinder". That way we could set of to explore in the asp, but then weeks later log into the Vulture for a CZ, or over to the cargo for an event. It falls in with the canon because when we eject we teleport back to our last station instantaneously (and by canon I mean lack of actual realism), so why not? Also, once multi-crew comes out, how will we get into friends' ships, back to our own, etc? And what of the Arena? You can be on the back side of the galaxy and still jump into that... because this is a GAME after all. It's supposed to be fun, not a chore, and driving a "rental sidey" from Imperial to Federation space is a chore.

 

[Vyrsai]

As fast travel would offer a distinct advantage for exploration, as one example, it would need both a separate mode and a separate BGS - otherwise exploration using fast travel would be the default - so not really a case of "don't use it if you don't want to", in my opinion.

Trading rares as another example. Long distance smuggling as a third.

I don't agree, you could say the same for PG and Solo vs Open with the argument - 'it's a distinct advantage to exploration / trading not having to worry about others players attacking you'.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

So having a new mode with fast travel would be fine then right? You could still just play in a mode that didn't offer it.

Got ninja'd by Robert a bit.
In my opinion the main issue here is at concept level. Elite is many things for many people:
There are those after a realistic simulator
Those after a combat game
Some want a nostalgic look at Elite
Some want an RPG
Others want an MMO
Some want a casual space game

There's no way to make everyone happy but adding a fast-travel option in any format would annoy a lot of those groups. As Mr moderator said it'd unbalance the game somewhat and take a lot of the challenge out which is what many want (see Dark Souls/KSP etc).

 

[Robert Maynard]

I don't agree, you could say the same for PG and Solo vs Open with the argument - 'it's a distinct advantage to exploration / trading not having to worry about others players attacking you'.

You could - except the three game modes have been included in the game design since the beginning and were in the game at launch - what is being proposed here is a change to the game.

 

[igor37]

So having a new mode with fast travel would be fine then right? You could still just play in a mode that didn't offer it?

No, it wouldn't be fine from a game design perspective.

- Every additional menu or game mode makes the game much more confusing for newcomers, and splits the community even more
- The whole game would need to be rebalanced for fast travel at least in that game mode
- Fast travel would be inconsistent with the current game modes, so Frontier would have to run a second background simulation(double the server costs). Who will pay that?

You seem to think adding a new game mode to ED is just like creating a small mod and adding a list item to the game menu. But this is an MMO, not a tiny rogue-like. Which means pretty much everything is much more complicated.
Also, it would take at least 12 months to develop and prepare, so Frontier would have to waste all their time and delay all expansions for a fun mode which doesn't even really fit with the rest of the game. Software development isn't magic.

 

[Vyrsai]

It's not an intended way to play this game (by that I mean it was supposed to be a one ship, carry it all with you sort of affair)...(snip)

Interesting and I agree to an extent, although I'd say we have no idea what the intended way to play the game is since it's still being developed and will be for the better part of a decade still.

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No, it wouldn't be fine from a game design perspective.

- Every additional menu or game mode makes the game much more confusing for newcomers, and splits the community even more
- The whole game would need to be rebalanced for fast travel at least in that game mode
- Fast travel would be inconsistent with the current game modes, so Frontier would have to run a second background simulation(double the server costs). Who will pay that?

You seem to think adding a new game mode to ED is just like creating a small mod and adding a list item to the game menu. But this is an MMO, not a tiny rogue-like. Which means pretty much everything is much more complicated.

I don't think adding a new game mode is just like creating a small mod, although I have no idea what creating one would entail at all and to be fair, neither do you.

They wouldn't need to create a new background sim, the same logic can already be used to argue the current game modes would need a seperate BGS as well then.

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You could - except the three game modes have been included in the game design since the beginning and were in the game at launch - what is being proposed here is a change to the game.

I still don't see the logic in that. Landing on planets was not included at launch, but it is here now and would also be considered a change to the game.

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Got ninja'd by Robert a bit.
In my opinion the main issue here is at concept level. Elite is many things for many people:
There are those after a realistic simulator
Those after a combat game
Some want a nostalgic look at Elite
Some want an RPG
Others want an MMO
Some want a casual space game

There's no way to make everyone happy but adding a fast-travel option in any format would annoy a lot of those groups. As Mr moderator said it'd unbalance the game somewhat and take a lot of the challenge out which is what many want (see Dark Souls/KSP etc).

It wouldn't be any more unbalanced than the current difference in the 3 modes already.

 

[Itaki]

I agree, just was curious what others think. The canon bit doesn't matter to at least half of the folks that frequent the forums.

What was lore is now 'canon' . Holy cow.

 

[Vyrsai]

What was lore is now 'canon' . Holy cow.

I was merely using canon in my reply to the previous poster. Lore works just as well. And yes a good portion of this forum seems to not care at all about Lore/Canon.

 

[Yukon Sam]

I think we'll get passenger service at some point between designated hubs. Then all you have to do is hop a shuttle and buy a new ship at the destination port. You couldn't move cargo or custom modules that way, it'd only be inside the bubble, and it might not be practical for bigger ships or tighter budgets, but you'd still have the option.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

It wouldn't be any more unbalanced than the current difference in the 3 modes already.

You pose an interesting arguement but essentially you are saying X can give some players an unfair advantage so lets introduce Y to give some players an unfair advantage.
And as we've seen the Open/group/solo thread is in an eternal cycle of arguement and mud-slinging with a fair bit of moderator influence, I don't really want another one of those but thats a side-topic

What I think Robert means is you are fundamentally changing the mechanics of the game. It'd be like reducing Elite's 400 billion systems down to 500,000 or similar large scale changes. Changing something so iconic to the game at this late stage would probably require a galaxy reset amongst other things to make it work and to sort out all the amazingly unbalanced things like smuggling that would be thrown out by the changes.

Probably my last post here because I think I've put my feelings across and we stand on pretty opposite sides of this debate. But I would ask what you want with it?
Is it a way to make the game more fast-paced? Is it because you want more credits faster? Is it to meet other people in the bubble? I honestly don't see why we should introduce it given that most people are perfectly fine with it at the moment (See Distant Worlds which was over-subscribed), In all the counter arguments for why It shouldn't happen I have yet to see a good arguement in favour of it...

This topic does keep cropping up, it's by no means the first time this discussion has been had. In the past 15 months I've been on the forums the public opinion seems to be "no thanks".

 

[igor37]

I don't think adding a new game mode is just like creating a small mod, although I have no idea what creating one would entail at all and to be fair, neither do you.

I study computer science and can definitely imagine what this would mean. No, I don't know the details about this game, but I can assure you no sane developer would delay their planned update schedule for at least half a year just to implement, balance and test an alternative game mode that's inconsistent with everything they created before.

They wouldn't need to create a new background sim, the same logic can already be used to argue the current game modes would need a seperate BGS as well then.

Look. Solo and Open mode can share the same BGS because they follow the same rules. Your suggestion is breaking these rules. Fast travel would have a huge impact on the in-game balance, jump ranges of the ships wouldn't matter anymore, Powerplay and some other aspects would sink into chaos and wouldn't work as intended anymore in the current game modes. So yes, you'd need a separate BGS as long as you don't want half of the players to be really angry at you.