Should We Encourage Titan Cocijo to Retreat Instead of Destroying It in Earth’s Orbit?

[Kuma]

I believe that for the complete success of Earth’s defense, we should not aim for the total destruction of Titan Cocijo, but instead, encourage its voluntary retreat. What do you think?

The struggle for survival is an inevitable destiny for all life rooted on this Earth. Therefore, regardless of the events leading up to this point, I do not oppose this fight itself.
However, before we proceed with the complete destruction of Titan Cocijo, I kindly ask everyone to think this through carefully.

The Thargoids are already aware of the Sol system’s location and its strategic importance. Even if we destroy Titan Cocijo, they can—and likely will—send additional Titans toward Earth relentlessly until they achieve victory.

What’s more concerning is Titan Cocijo’s very proximity to Earth. Destroying it in low Earth orbit could scatter Thargoid-derived materials, which might rain down onto the planet.
Furthermore, Titan Cocijo could intentionally reduce its velocity and choose to crash directly onto Earth’s surface.

While Earth’s abundant oxygen makes an immediate transformation into an ammonia world unlikely, there remains the risk of long-term environmental contamination. Microscopic entities, such as bacteria, viruses, or even nanomachines embedded in Thargoid materials, could irreversibly disrupt Earth’s ecosystem, slowly twisting it away from its pure natural state.

If Titan Cocijo’s destruction leads to irreversible damage to Earth’s environment, our victory would be hollow. For this reason, destroying Titan Cocijo, particularly in Earth’s low orbit, seems far from a wise course of action.

So, what can we do instead?
What if we halted our attacks just before delivering the final blow?
Stopping the assault at the very moment Titan Cocijo realizes its imminent demise might convey an incredibly powerful and clear message.

There is reason to be optimistic. The Thargoids appear to have learned a significant amount about humanity in the lead-up to their invasion of Earth. This suggests they might be capable of comprehending human-like thought processes. If so, we have a rare opportunity to communicate our broader intentions. Even if sporadic skirmishes continue, they may begin to understand the kind of beings we are.

Even if this plan fails, wouldn’t the only consequence be a slight delay in Titan Cocijo’s destruction?
Wouldn’t it be worth considering this approach?

 

[Riverside]

It's a nice idea but how?

This is FDev's story on rails & they decide what the after effects will be (and Sol probably has invincible plot armour).

If you as a player want to try for a different outcome than a space invaders game from the '80s your choices are PvP against the AX player that choose to do their work in Open, all efforts in that direction being made ineffective by private groups anyway (not complaining, but it is a thing) or not participating & just let the story play out then help fix what's broken afterwards which is what I'm doing.

The only way to change the story will be to somehow persuade everyone to ignore the content FDev provided to persuade gamers to play their game on the lead up to the winter holidays instead of some other game.

In-game, in-universe there is not much point opposing it or hoping for any kind of collective agency over the outcome other than how long it will take. We'll get another round of invasions in the bubble if the gameplay is popular. If it's not so popular we might see 'humanity' push back & the gameplay will happen in less disruptive systems (outside the bubble) & if it becomes a damp squib humanity will just be declared the winners & the only other active, intelligent species we have met in the galaxy (which we apparently almost immediately annoyed even though technologically we are apparently way behind & should be swatted like flies) get wiped out.

IMO any in-universe solution is utterly defeated by out-of-universe game mechanics & all we can do is wait to find out if the Orion permit locks will become unlocked again & new player explorers can go visit one of the bubbles most obvious tourist destinations on the skybox.

 

[Kuma]

It's a nice idea but how?

This is FDev's story on rails & they decide what the after effects will be (and Sol probably has invincible plot armour).

If you as a player want to try for a different outcome than a space invaders game from the '80s your choices are PvP against the AX player that choose to do their work in Open, all efforts in that direction being made ineffective by private groups anyway (not complaining, but it is a thing) or not participating & just let the story play out then help fix what's broken afterwards which is what I'm doing.

The only way to change the story will be to somehow persuade everyone to ignore the content FDev provided to persuade gamers to play their game on the lead up to the winter holidays instead of some other game.

In-game, in-universe there is not much point opposing it or hoping for any kind of collective agency over the outcome other than how long it will take. We'll get another round of invasions in the bubble if the gameplay is popular. If it's not so popular we might see 'humanity' push back & the gameplay will happen in less disruptive systems (outside the bubble) & if it becomes a damp squib humanity will just be declared the winners & the only other active, intelligent species we have met in the galaxy (which we apparently almost immediately annoyed even though technologically we are apparently way behind & should be swatted like flies) get wiped out.

IMO any in-universe solution is utterly defeated by out-of-universe game mechanics & all we can do is wait to find out if the Orion permit locks will become unlocked again & new player explorers can go visit one of the bubbles most obvious tourist destinations on the skybox.

I understand where you’re coming from.
To be honest, I don’t have a definitive solution in mind either.

However, how about something like this: when the Titan’s health bar is down to one or two circles left, everyone stops attacking the heat core simultaneously. Of course, there will still be players who continue attacking. But if the majority of players shift towards stopping, wouldn’t it send some sort of message?

Of course, I understand that this might ultimately end up being meaningless within the framework of the established narrative rails.
Still, I thought it might be better than doing nothing and feeling disappointed later.

 

[Riverside]

Still, I thought it might be better than doing nothing and feeling disappointed later.

As far as I can see the only agency I have is whether or not to be disappointed.

So bring it on Thargoids, burn the bubble, find Colonia & chase us throughout the galaxy wherever humanity establishes a foothold for the next few years until the servers eventually get switched off.

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

No, we need to kill it. A titan must be a massive investment for the Thargoids. They cannot keept losing them forever. At some point, regardless of how the Thargoids think, they will figure out that leaving us alone is the smarter move.

 

[amigacooke]

Difficult to worry about Earth’s atmosphere when we have no way to access it anyway.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

encourage its voluntary retreat

The only case in which the Thargoids have ever voluntarily retreated is when they've completely accomplished whatever goal they had. And the only case in which they've ever involuntarily retreated is when their expected losses have exceeded any marginal benefit from continuing to fight.

Given Cocijo's movement just now, we can probably assume that any of the Titans previously destroyed (except maybe Taranis got taken by surprise) could have retreated long before their destruction - days before, if not weeks. And yet, they kept them on station, not even attempting to flee, right up to the end.

Whatever goal they have with the Titans is one they consider the Titans themselves expendable for if it gets them even another few hours towards it. If people cease attacks on Cocijo when it's mostly but not entirely destroyed, by far the most likely Thargoid response is "well, maybe they ran out of ships for now, we can get another few batches done while they build some more."

However, how about something like this: when the Titan’s health bar is down to one or two circles left, everyone stops attacking the heat core simultaneously.

You are vastly underestimating the difficulty of contacting "everyone".

DCoH's stats, which only cover people running third-party tools, show more resistance to the Invasions in the week-to-date than there was to the entire attack on Shinrarta, which itself was over double any other week's total activity. Extrapolating from the CG participation numbers, that's well over ten thousand people to contact - in hundreds if not thousands of different communities, timezones, languages, etc.

 

[Hanerib]

I'd rather have the decal than worry about such things. It's just an ELW.

 

[Skizomeuh]

Wild guess: whatever we achieve, consequences will be bad for Sol and maybe the human Bubble, ergo the next feature to come ingame - colonization.

 

[DjVortex]

From a meta perspective, I doubt Fdev has gone through the trouble of doing something special to Earth if/when the titan is destroyed on its orbit. At most the remains of the titan will, well, remain there for the foreseeable future, but that's it. Maybe they'll add a tourist beacon closeby.

 

[Kira Goto]

*I'm aware of above posts.

There seems to be a profound misunderstanding here... namely, just because the Thargoids know about how we think, doesn't necessarily mean they care about it. Whatever their end goal here is, they're not at all afraid to step on (quite a lot of) human toes despite now having the knowledge which Seo's brain held. And I'm pretty sure the Titan as well as its onboard Thargoids know they have been sent on a (likely) one-way trip and it is a sacrifice deemed perfectly acceptable in the pursuit of their goal(s). They're a few million years older than us, appear to have mastered space-time manipulation and can live in another universe... I doubt they're too bothered by what we think.

There are also too many warmongering pilots out there who fail to see this as anything other than mindless aggression when it is not. The signs are there, but who's paying attention to them? (Or, out of universe - people want to shoot Titan, they will go shoot Titan, so it's going to happen regardless of any coordinated plan and likely in sufficient numbers to offset it or prevent its execution... it's not as if there's an option to provide the Titan with materials to resist the attacks, which would only encourage it to stick around)

No, we need to kill it. A titan must be a massive investment for the Thargoids

OR you're approaching it from the perspective of human limitations and capabilities. They've had a couple million years to proliferate largely unhindered, both in our galaxy and whatever Witch Space is, and appear to have had some similar level of technology back during the human-Guardian conflict already... what makes you think throwing eight Titans under the bus is a particularly significant expense for them? Their very behavior toward them indicates the contrary.

In any case, Cocijo is not going anywhere. It made its intentions clear when it headed for Sol. And I am certain we would have seen a similar situation play out even if this last Titan (that we know of) had been destroyed some three weeks ago, because apparently Seo's knowledge is permitting them to pursue their goal to greater effect than before. Or at all? Not as if I know. So, neither are the Thargoids going to head anywhere away from the Bubble. Titans were just one way for them to get to their goals, and if you're to ask me they only aren't sending more because it's seen as a pointless expense at the moment due to some magical fuzmy nanites which are resistant to the AGF "because they are". They're just using their remaining one for as long as it retains operational capabilities, then they'll probably just change their strategy. Or throw in something which they've since modified/updated(upgraded?) to be resistant to the magical nanobots.

(And I'm not yet convinced that this Titan is going down as "easily" as the current progression of the week suggests.)

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

what makes you think throwing eight Titans under the bus is a particularly significant expense for them?

The fact that we have less seen than a dozen of them implies that they are rare. Their size implies high cost of resources, no matter how the Thargoid economy works in detail.
Whatever their overall resources may be, they need them for other things than the war against humanity as well (I keep saying that the fact that they are not everywhere after such a long time should mean that something else out there is killing them; and they will also have peaceful applications for resources).

 

[Tifu]

Posting this for reference.

Witch Space = Hyperspace

Our ships very briefly go through Hyperspace to make our jumps but the Thargoids reportedly live in it.

Hyperspace

Hyperspace, colloquially known as Witch-space, is a higher-dimensional region through which ships can travel between star systems at superluminal speeds. Only ships fitted with a hyperdrive are able to initiate hyperspace jumps on their own. In the 34th century, the most prevalent hyperdrive...

elite-dangerous.fandom.com

 

[Kira Goto]

(I keep saying that the fact that they are not everywhere after such a long time should mean that something else out there is killing them;

Or you don't need to occupy lots of space in another galaxy or universe when you have another one at your disposal (but it likely doesn't have things which do exist in this one, so they have reasons to visit this one and keep a presence in it).

Just because we haven't seen it... well, let me just say, I doubt anyone but the Thargoids has a real idea of their actual numbers. And I believe it to be much more likely it is more of a willingness to dedicate a certain number of ships and resources to the invasion of human space, rather than any actual limit to the number of Titans in existence. There were over 200 motherships involved in the first war (supposedly), and while those are smaller on an individual scale... there was over 200, which is likely significantly more tonnage than eight Titans account for, even accounting for the relationship between volume and mass.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Destroy it...
If the dice rolls well the destruction explosion will wipe out all life on Sol too, a very satisfactory outcome.

 

[Sophokles Logimo]

Or you don't need to occupy lots of space in another galaxy or universe [...[

All life wants to grow. If it does not want that, it dies out, and nothing remains to be observed. Therefore, the Thargoids not being found everywhere in the galaxy (we have had explorers out there for quite a while, and in most places, they found no Thargoids whatsoever) even though we know they have been around as a spacefaring species for millions of years (!) necessarily means something is working against their growth. The most interesting (and thus, in the context of a game, most likely) explanation would be other aliens.

[...] I believe it to be much more likely it is more of a willingness to dedicate a certain number of ships and resources to the invasion of human space, rather than any actual limit to the number of Titans in existence.

That willingness must come from somewhere, and that somewhere is other uses for their resources.

I mean, from a Thargoid perspective, their invasion is an utter failure. Yet they do not send a lot more towards us. That means there are limits – political, economic, or social – that prevent further Thargoid reinforcements, at least for now.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I keep saying that the fact that they are not everywhere after such a long time

How do we know they aren't everywhere? Maybe we just don't know what to look for. There's quite a lot of evidence that the Thargoids "seed" locations and then return some time later (centuries, maybe much longer) to harvest. Maybe we're looking at a landscape of farm fields, and thinking that since there's only a tractor in one of them, there must be something stopping the farmer reaching all the others.

The Titans we saw came from all around us; all but Taranis from areas with no previous signs of Thargoid activity (before or since!). Their near-equidistant positioning around the bubble suggests one of two things:
1) If Titans are rare, those Titans were specifically positioned there, long ago (they're not exactly quiet to move), to surround the bubble, possibly before it even existed as a colonised region in that sense and certainly before there was any hint that there would be a Proteus Wave for them to respond to.
2) If Titans are common, the ones selected to attack may have been specifically chosen to hide a wider pattern in their distribution, or may just have been the nearest in a suitably ready configuration for whatever it is they're doing here.

Thargoid sensors are found all across the galaxy.

 

[CMDR Daiyus]

Titans don't move through witch-space, instead using technology that we reversed engineered into SCO to travel at amazingly superluminal speeds. Based on that fact, I can't help but feel that these Titans were specifically designed (bred?) to operate in real-space in their operations against us. Whatever is controlling them is probably sat at home in witch-space, but there must be some source of the Titans in our universe somewhere?

 

[metatheurgist]

The fact that we have less seen than a dozen of them implies that they are rare.

I've never seen squirrel. If I went to the zoo tomorrow and saw 8 in a enclosure I wouldn't think they were rare.

 

[Felix DiCestria]

It's a nice idea but how?

This is FDev's story on rails & they decide what the after effects will be (and Sol probably has invincible plot armour).

If you as a player want to try for a different outcome than a space invaders game from the '80s your choices are PvP against the AX player that choose to do their work in Open, all efforts in that direction being made ineffective by private groups anyway (not complaining, but it is a thing) or not participating & just let the story play out then help fix what's broken afterwards which is what I'm doing.

...Or sitting in the instance with a really janky connection rendering all Thargoids immortal...