Shouldn't gravity wells, you know, like actually work?

GhostBuster · Apr 22, 2017

So, I'm noticing, as I'm bouncing between a station and a planetary base, that the "center of the blue arc" nonsense isn't actually doing anything anymore when it comes to planets and moons. Basically, I'm unable to use them as brakes, and most times despite having the throttle closed, I rush either right past them, or I 'hit' the orbital area and bust out of supercruise with damage.

The whole point, i was of the understanding, was that the gravity wells of planets and moons and stars caused you to slow down, and moving away from them speed up. So while that seems to be true when just starting to move from a station, the opposite isn't true when trying to slow down.

If I'm coming in hot on a station say, I should be able to use a planet to either 'air brake' or even as a slingshot to speed me up - depending on where and how i approach?

Is this also related to the utter screw up that is the heat / fuel scoop speed when around a star - which doesn't work correctly based off of distance (radius) from star, but on which direction you're facing and speed? Or is that a completely separate mess?

Is this a new bug in 2.2 / 2.3 and needs to be bug reported?

Mercury7 · Apr 23, 2017

I don't think this is anything new. Newtonian physics is only half implemented. For example, the ships have a magic wall they can't cross (e.g. you can't infinitely accelerate into a planet surface).

GhostBuster · Apr 23, 2017

So, it's *not* a bug - it's just half- implmentation wise?

Does that mean it's not worth bugging so that they can finish it?

Vasco Sapien · Apr 23, 2017

If you are approaching a planet at speed and at the right angle it should sling shot you. Google Gravity assist.

But we are talking about ships traveling outside of normal physics here. FTL, Non-relativistic effects etc.

--

Its a game.

cheesenbiscuits · Apr 23, 2017

I don't really get your gripe here.
The gravity braking works as long as your not going too quick,i don't use the blue bar malarky,i just keep the time to destination at 6 and if it goes to 5 i'm officially over speeding and if i'm not too far out dropping into the gravity well does the trick nicely.
As for the fuel scoop,it is completely based on your distance from the star,and not related to your speed.

Silaz · Apr 23, 2017

If you want to execute aerobraking and slingshot maneuvers with real world physics, play Kerbal Space program

Rhaedas · Apr 23, 2017

The ships aren't moving in space in supercruise. They are moving space. There's no velocity, it's shifting actual space-time to change where you are.

What happens around gravity wells is that your ship's drive needs more effort to do this, thus the higher pitch. It also means that if you come in too fast, the drive can't adjust fast enough. Why can't it just stop shifting space whenever, you might ask. Well, gameplay for one, it gives something to have to fly and work for rather than just stop on a dime. But in the lore of the physics involved, sometimes you can do that, through being interdicted or an emergency stop. And it's not good for the drive mechanics, so that's why it prevents you normally.

As for gravity, sling shots, that whole thing - gravity is very weak. The reason you orbit around a body is because it pulls you down as fast as you're moving past. Now compare the slowest SC speed, and you'll see that even if they simulated gravity everywhere, it would be nothing compared to what you can do in a split second in SC. So, no effect.

You can orbit bodies though. Small enough moons whose orbital velocity are less than what out ships can go in normal space.

Gunnet · Apr 23, 2017

Gravity wells still slow you down by affecting your FSD. But normal physics don't apply in supercruise, so you can't change your speed through the manoeuvres you would use in a game with realistic orbital mechanics.

_trent_ · Apr 23, 2017

There used to be gravity breaking in the game. There were quite a few vids showing you how to do it.

Example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxUfwJl0yjU

Since 2.1 came out, none of the techniques work any more.

SeaFireliv · Apr 23, 2017

cheesenbiscuits said:
I don't really get your gripe here.
The gravity braking works as long as your not going too quick,i don't use the blue bar malarky,i just keep the time to destination at 6 and if it goes to 5 i'm officially over speeding and if i'm not too far out dropping into the gravity well does the trick nicely.
As for the fuel scoop,it is completely based on your distance from the star,and not related to your speed.

You get a rep simply for your jolly star trek avatar.

Rhaedas · Apr 23, 2017

call_me_trent said:
There used to be gravity breaking in the game. There were quite a few vids showing you how to do it.

Example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxUfwJl0yjU

Since 2.1 came out, none of the techniques work any more.

Hmm, been using gravity wells to full throttle in for years, just did it a few times today at my home base (between the rings and planet, spiral in to the station on the other side). Didn't know it didn't work any more...guess I better stop then.

Macy · Apr 23, 2017

I've seen a lot of videos where people fuel scoop wrong. The rate of scoop depends on how far into the star's atmosphere you are. Once you've hit a high rate of scoop you can zero the throttle and keep scooping at that rate. I see people diving in and out at high speed, there's no need.

Bounder · Apr 23, 2017

Silaz said:
If you want to execute aerobraking and slingshot maneuvers with real world physics, play Kerbal Space program

..or the previous two versions of Elite, FE2 and FFE.. from way back when FD gave a damn (about anything other than £££'s).

Trying to make any sense of the abomination that is ED is an exercise in futility. It's submarines, in space, with (cough) 'voluntary' pan-galactic 'space speed limits' slower than 1950's aircraft; ie. intrinsically incapable of anything approaching basic, fun spaceflight. Just keep it in the 'blue zone', misuse terms like 'meta' and 'optimal mass', and voila, you're officially having 'fun', ED style.

GhostBuster · Apr 23, 2017

Gunnet said:
Gravity wells still slow you down by affecting your FSD. But normal physics don't apply in supercruise, so you can't change your speed through the manoeuvres you would use in a game with realistic orbital mechanics.

My point is, they don't, unless you're going so slow as to make little difference. Is this a bug or a stupid 'design' decision?

Gunnet · Apr 23, 2017

Macy said:
I've seen a lot of videos where people fuel scoop wrong. The rate of scoop depends on how far into the star's atmosphere you are. Once you've hit a high rate of scoop you can zero the throttle and keep scooping at that rate. I see people diving in and out at high speed, there's no need.

Sun diving is actually useful if you're flying a ship with heat management issues and a smaller scoop. Maintaining high speed while scooping at max rate allows you to pull up sharply at ~85-90% heat (depending on star class) and escape the corona before hitting 100%, whereas parking would mean allowing a larger safety margin and potentially having to loiter at a lower scoop rate to complete refuelling.

GhostBuster said:
My point is, they don't, unless you're going so slow as to make little difference. Is this a bug or a stupid 'design' decision?

I wasn't around to witness it, but I've heard that in the early days of ED gravity wells had a more powerful braking effect and efficient supercruise navigation required giving them a wider berth. Personally I like the idea of having to actually navigate in SC rather than just pointing at the destination and doing a little throttle management near the end, but maybe they thought it was too steep of a learning curve for such an essential mechanic.

Morbad · Apr 23, 2017

call_me_trent said:
Since 2.1 came out, none of the techniques work any more.

They still work.

Elyssaen · Apr 23, 2017

call_me_trent said:
There used to be gravity breaking in the game. There were quite a few vids showing you how to do it.

Example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxUfwJl0yjU

Since 2.1 came out, none of the techniques work any more.

Ah, I haven't gone mad then? I took a long break between 1.x and quite far into 2.2. I used to use gravitational 'anchor' manoeuvres quite often, and while I still do them I'm not convinced they're as effective anymore. Far from certain though, and I still think they work, I just got the feeling that they weren't behaving the same.

CMDR Ofan · Apr 23, 2017

Morbad said:
They still work.

Used one earlier, falling asleep at the wheel, defo still work.

Rhaedas · Apr 23, 2017

Gunnet said:
I wasn't around to witness it, but I've heard that in the early days of ED gravity wells had a more powerful braking effect and efficient supercruise navigation required giving them a wider berth. Personally I like the idea of having to actually navigate in SC rather than just pointing at the destination and doing a little throttle management near the end, but maybe they thought it was too steep of a learning curve for such an essential mechanic.

One of the complaints was that some people didn't like the way your view got jerked around, much like there were complaints about SRV motion sensitivity. Another problem, while it would make gravity braking more useful, it would also get you trapped if you got stuck too close at slow speeds.

sewerratuk · Apr 23, 2017

I never really understood why USS manage to slingshot you away if you don't approach properly. Surely a few discarded mats don't have that much gravity.