Silent runing effect with engineering

[CMDR Cknarf]

Hardly any at all. Clean is pretty much a worthless mod in every way.


Clean will for sure raise your idle temp based on the powerdraw, but doesn’t seem to make much of a difference while boosting— instead it seems to affect heat generated by normal thruster activity while cruising.

While cruising, clean will allow you to sit in silent running longer, if that’s what you want to do. Not sure why anyone would want to do that, but that’s what I found.

In short, run dirty drives, unless you wanna float around like a dope. Then maybe run cleans. Actually, still no. Don’t ever run cleans. Ever.

Click for science:

Spoiler

DBS plants and drives and s—-

#1
Plant: Armored G3, No experimental
16.76mw/0.37 eff
78% total usage

Drives: Dirty G5 drag drives (32% usage)
Max speed: 576
Cruise speed: 424
Hardpoints deployed
All modules on
Idle heat: 19%
Idle to 100% - boosting (6 boosts, 0:26)
Idle to 100% - stationary^ (1:26)
Idle to 100% - cruising (1:16)


#2
Plant: Armored G3, no experimental
16.76mw/0.37 eff
79% total usage

Drives:Clean G5 thermal spread (34% usage)
Max speed 509
Cruise speed 375
Hardpoints deployed
All modules on
Idle heat: 20%
Idle to 100% - Boosting (6 boosts, 0:27)
Idle to 100% - stationary^ (1:24)
Idle to 100% - Cruising (1:24)

#3
Plant: Low emissions G5 thermal spread
13.26mw/0.14 eff
98% total usage
Drives: Dirty G5 drag drives (41% usage)
Max speed 576
Cruise speed 424
Hardpoints deployed
All modules on
Idle heat: 12%
Idle to 100% - boosting (7 boosts, 0:33)
Idle to 100% - stationary^ (4:16)
Idle to 100% - cruising (3:30)

#4
Plant: Low emissions G5 thermal spread
13.26/0.14 eff
*95% total usage
Drives:Clean G5 thermal spread (43% usage)
Max Speed 509
Cruise speed 375
Hardpoints deployed
*Cargo hatch OFF
Idle heat: 13%
Idle to 100% - boosting (9 boosts, 0:40)
Idle to 100% - stationary^ (4:21)
Idle to 100% - cruising (4:10)

^Zero throttle, not accounting for thruster activity caused by stick drift

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

I've tested dirty drives vs clean drives in fuel scooping and it did make a significant difference so on that I can confirm clean drives are at least useful at supercruise. That being said I've never used dirty drives on a stealth ship before.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Placebo effect my man, we’ve been through this all before.

I used to believe in clean drives, until I realized it was all BEE ESS

Your plant, by far, is the greatest contributing factor to your ships heat level, and the difference made by drives is negligible at best.

Spoiler

Alright, so. T6 and Achenar 3.

I’m going to start by saying this is a rather hot build, powered by a 2A guardian plant. Stat wise it’s a mix of a G4 and G5 overcharged 2A. 0.50 effeciency(G5 OC) with an output of 12.70(.10 less than G4 OC). It’s got a little more integrity, but weighs more. This plant is used simply out of laziness, and the refusal to gather materials. A standard, engineered 2A would be better for this ship’s intended purpose, transport/exploration.

Clean drive T6 (thermal spread, G5)
Jump: 58~
44% power usage
Cruise: 322
Boost: 513
Orbit heat: 34%
Glide heat: 51%
Boosting heat (flat): 58%
Aggressive maneuvering: 73%**
From surface, ascending via vertical thrusters only: 51%
Boosting upward, perpendicular to surface: 61%
From 61% to Supercruise(no boost while or prior to charging, Escape vector located before charge): 84%

———-
Dirty drive T6 (Drag drives, G5)
Jump: 58~
43% power usage
Cruise: 365
Boost: 580
Orbit heat: 34%
Glide heat: 58%
Boosting heat (flat): 61%
Aggressive maneuvering: 73%(!)**
From surface, ascending via vertical thrusters only: 53%
Boosting upward, perpendicular to surface: 68%^^
From 68% to Supercruise(no boost while or prior to charging, Escape vector located before charge): 89%*

**Abrupt turns, flips, constant boosting. I expected the dirty T6 to get significantly hotter than the clean T6, but I could not push it farther. Perhaps upside down would have made a difference.

*At an angle slightly beyond 90 deg. Beyond vertical, I was able to push the dirty T6 WELL over 120%, but was fine if traveling straight up, or at a lesser angle. Clean drive T6 was not tested in this manner.

As for fuel scooping, both loadouts were uncomfortable at maximum scoop rate to say the least. Again, HOT build to start with. I am using a 4c scoop, and a smaller than stock fuel tank. If the tank was larger, I have no doubt that they both would have reached 100+. I’ll have to test this more, with a standard tank and an exploration-worthy 5A fuel scoop.

Edit: Watching my initial arrival clip a second time, I noticed I was able to hit 75% in the dirty T6, but only once, before my distributor ran dry.

Another edit: I went back to Achenar 3 and really started thrashing the dirty T6 around. Unlikely maneuvers while out there exploring, boosting with vertical thrusters, lats, and rolling etc. It isn’t difficult to get warm. I noticed heat climbs significantly faster when rolled 90 degrees from level and boosting as well. This is all with FA on. I imagine the Clean T6 might fare a little better, but still heat up a noticeable amount based off of prior testing.

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

Placebo effect my man, we’ve been through this all before.

I used to believe in clean drives, until I realized it was all BEE ESS

Your plant, by far, is the greatest contributing factor to your ships heat level, and the difference made by drives is negligible at best.

Yes weve had this conversation before and I still stand by my original statement.

 

[Erwgd]

If you want your Frame Shift Drive to run cool, try a Shielded FSD. If you go into silent running and jump with one, you'll last longer before overheating.
Shielded only has a small range boost (5A Shielded on a Krait Phantom has ~20ly range), so I'd recommend going with Increased Range and just use heatsinks for jumping unseen.

 

[Havvk]

Not directly, but you can increase the time you can stay in silent running before overheating by minimizing module heat generation. Low emission pp sure is helpful.

Try armored if you need both coolness and extra juice. Just keep in mind it's heavy

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Assuming Grade 5 mods, an armored 5 plant is actually lighter than a Low-emission 6, and has more power+integrity. In many builds, armored is actually pretty great.

You’ll still notice effeciency difference vs low emission, though.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

At a minimal materials level, just engineer the heat sinks to high-capacity, and you are done. Eject them when you get scanned.

Building a cold-runner is still interesting though. Here is a useful thread:

[Research] Detailed Heat Mechanics

Time for another research thread by your favorite furry friend, Frenotx! This time, it's time to tackle the heat mechanics. This one's a bit unusual, though- I'm looking for some assistance from viewers like you! So, without further ado: Highlights: -1 heat unit = 1 BTU. -Each ship has a baked...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Built a cold running DBX to ferry passengers from burning stations. She cruises at 10-12% heat.
Now, she evacuates people with "Imperial Entanglements" from Mos Eisleys. Never ever had to use a heat sink. Removed the utility.

Some minor factoids you could consider:
- Power consumption is proportional to heat generation.
Since the modifying factor in the Power Plant is so critical, install the biggest one you can, Monster it if needed, and try to get the Low Emission rating up to 4 or 5. That is the most important single step, but you have to do it LAST, because you won't otherwise know how much power you will need!

Reduce Power Consumption to the lowest tolerable levels you can.

• First take off all non essential modules. Like high energy weapons. Vehicle hangars. Unneeded scanners like anti Xeno stuff etc.
• Install modules you can use with lower power drain- like multicannons, missiles etc.
• Then prioritize your power allocations in the right hand panel. You might want to carry something just in case, like say an AFMU - just switch it off.
• If you deploy weapons, have that kill your FSD, cargo hatch, and DSS. Can't use both at the same time.
• Next you will want to engineer the modules you can. Shields should be a big saver. Go with a Low Emission Low Draw shield. Undersize it. Consider not using one.
• Armour up. Your shield will be weak. So it should be a BiWeave, with an E-rated booster to help resistances.
• Set your power distributor to neutral and switch it off. It will still work.
• Now you know exactly how many megawatts you can get away with, so size and engineer the Powerplant.

I did some things most would not enjoy: undersized D-rated thrusters. Tossed all the weapons, etc.
Staying away from the drive engineering controversy: Drive Strengthening Legacy mod is what you need for stealth.
If you don't have one, an unmodded drive uses less power than modded ones, so compromise according to your build needs.

- You have to stay a good distance from potential scanner enemy ships.

Unless you see them first, how can you do that?
Your ship has to have some long range sensors on board. Ones with low power draw- so get a size D and engineer it up to G5 long range.
The bigger the ship you fly, the further out you need to be. For a KP, I would use 1000 km.


- You need a Cold-Running Macro.

If you spot a potential enemy that can scan you, you need to 1) cut all non-essential power, 2) eject a sink, 3)Switch off the HS utility, 4)Go FA off, 5)low power thrust briefly( Go Down - direction is always a guess but that is the default I use) 6)kill engines, and drift away. That's one keystroke.

Killing engines is extremely important. Moves your ship from a flickering contact to zero contact.

The next step up from this state is Silent Running.
There are issues with it and detection. It does not drop you off their scanners instantly, there's a 5 sec delay. It keeps engines on, powers shields off. If you have a low power shield, that's the opposite of avoiding detection.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

I have a wee question regarding silent running. Some of you have mentioned shields... I thought shields drop when you go silent running?

Also, if you get your heat to 0 while running normal with thermal vent, is that the same as 0 while running silent?

I've always wanted to try a stealth build but wasn't sure if it was worth the grind for materials to engineer and then be useless.

Well, 0 = 0 to be sure.
But if you are beaming a laser on them, they know exactly where you are.

You can still use this to hide from an enemy, just not the one you are shooting!

 

[zaikoji]

At a minimal materials level, just engineer the heat sinks to high-capacity, and you are done. Eject them when you get scanned.

Building a cold-runner is still interesting though. Here is a useful thread:

[Research] Detailed Heat Mechanics

Time for another research thread by your favorite furry friend, Frenotx! This time, it's time to tackle the heat mechanics. This one's a bit unusual, though- I'm looking for some assistance from viewers like you! So, without further ado: Highlights: -1 heat unit = 1 BTU. -Each ship has a baked...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Built a cold running DBX to ferry passengers from burning stations. She cruises at 10-12% heat.
Now, she evacuates people with "Imperial Entanglements" from Mos Eisleys. Never ever had to use a heat sink. Removed the utility.

Some minor factoids you could consider:
- Power consumption is proportional to heat generation.
Since the modifying factor in the Power Plant is so critical, install the biggest one you can, Monster it if needed, and try to get the Low Emission rating up to 4 or 5. That is the most important single step, but you have to do it LAST, because you won't otherwise know how much power you will need!

Reduce Power Consumption to the lowest tolerable levels you can.

• First take off all non essential modules. Like high energy weapons. Vehicle hangars. Unneeded scanners like anti Xeno stuff etc.
• Install modules you can use with lower power drain- like multicannons, missiles etc.
• Then prioritize your power allocations in the right hand panel. You might want to carry something just in case, like say an AFMU - just switch it off.
• If you deploy weapons, have that kill your FSD, cargo hatch, and DSS. Can't use both at the same time.
• Next you will want to engineer the modules you can. Shields should be a big saver. Go with a Low Emission Low Draw shield. Undersize it. Consider not using one.
• Armour up. Your shield will be weak. So it should be a BiWeave, with an E-rated booster to help resistances.
• Set your power distributor to neutral and switch it off. It will still work.
• Now you know exactly how many megawatts you can get away with, so size and engineer the Powerplant.

I did some things most would not enjoy: undersized D-rated thrusters. Tossed all the weapons, etc.
Staying away from the drive engineering controversy: Drive Strengthening Legacy mod is what you need for stealth.
If you don't have one, an unmodded drive uses less power than modded ones, so compromise according to your build needs.

- You have to stay a good distance from potential scanner enemy ships.

Unless you see them first, how can you do that?
Your ship has to have some long range sensors on board. Ones with low power draw- so get a size D and engineer it up to G5 long range.
The bigger the ship you fly, the further out you need to be. For a KP, I would use 1000 km.


- You need a Cold-Running Macro.

If you spot a potential enemy that can scan you, you need to 1) cut all non-essential power, 2) eject a sink, 3)Switch off the HS utility, 4)Go FA off, 5)low power thrust briefly( Go Down - direction is always a guess but that is the default I use) 6)kill engines, and drift away. That's one keystroke.

Killing engines is extremely important. Moves your ship from a flickering contact to zero contact.

The next step up from this state is Silent Running.
There are issues with it and detection. It does not drop you off their scanners instantly, there's a 5 sec delay. It keeps engines on, powers shields off. If you have a low power shield, that's the opposite of avoiding detection.

That’s all you need to know people.
It’s just a shame that all that deeply involved, fun and fiddly prep doesn’t gain you more of an advantage. There needs to be more of an in-game reason to go silent. Look at other games. The whole world and their dog loves stealthy shenanigans.

 

[Guyperson]

That’s all you need to know people.
It’s just a shame that all that deeply involved, fun and fiddly prep doesn’t gain you more of an advantage. There needs to be more of an in-game reason to go silent. Look at other games. The whole world and their dog loves stealthy shenanigans.

It used to, but people really didn't like blowing up for no apparent reason. Or having to outfit something other than gimballed lasers and multicannons to counter it.

 

[Phazon Xenomorph]

Stealth builds are always interesting. I remember seeing a year or two ago someone made a shieldless sidewinder that was a silent running, engineered to hell for heat reduction, mine layer + cannon build. The Mines were engineered to destroy the shield generator (for even the big tanky shield ships) and the cannon was high yield to snipe multiple modules. The silent running and fast movements of the sidewinder made it hard for a lot of pilots to pin down.

Might have to make such a build myself actually, sounds quite fun thinking about it.... Maybe use it with a vulture though...

 

[Old Duck]

Just a word of warning - if you make your ship too cold, your canopy will be covered in ice permanently. No joke!

 

[VeryLittleGravitas]

I've just tried two builds of a cold AspX for smuggling, identical except in drives, Dirty/thermal spread and Clean/thermal spread. EDSY states that the clean ones are 4% colder at full thrust (15% vs 19%, all other components equal). (I have no idea how to export from EDSY, the only time I use it is when I need to see the heat).

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

Just a word of warning - if you make your ship too cold, your canopy will be covered in ice permanently. No joke!

Once you land on a planet and your thrusters shut down, everything freezes over and you don't want uninvited guests. There is a certain leader of a country that likes hiding in fridges, just saying.

 

[zaikoji]

It used to, but people really didn't like blowing up for no apparent reason. Or having to outfit something other than gimballed lasers and multicannons to counter it.

You never know. Maybe they’ll get a bit more creative when Odyssey drops.
No, I’m not holding my breath.

 

[Just Paul]

I've tested dirty drives vs clean drives in fuel scooping and it did make a significant difference so on that I can confirm clean drives are at least useful at supercruise. That being said I've never used dirty drives on a stealth ship before.

@Bigmaec did a scientific test on that. Do we love scientific tests. Anyways, clean drives produced more heat in SC than dirty drives. It makes sense as they use more power and are not really used in SC.

Just put dirty drives and be done.

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

@Bigmaec did a scientific test on that. Do we love scientific tests. Anyways, clean drives produced more heat in SC than dirty drives. It makes sense as they use more power and are not really used in SC.

Just put dirty drives and be done.

Me and Cknarf had a thorough conversation about this subject some time ago. I tested it myself and found the clean drives made a significant difference in fuel scooping. He is firm in his position and I am firm in mine. That's why I'm not pushing the conversation.

 

[Sensei Jacksama]

Here is a link to the thread if your interested in reading the conversation in its entirety. It starts at post #12.

We knew this day would come

The thargoids have attacked professor pailin's outpost and you cannot access any of the services when docked there. Now we know the thargoids could possibly begin to attack planetary bases. They understand to some degree our social structure as they chose this outpost to be their first...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Katie Byrne]

The AX community know a thing or two about staying cold for extended periods. just increase the ammo cap of your heatsinks and pop them one after the other. will keep you cold for long enough to do whatever you need to do.

EDIT - take a look at my attacking runs. it's heatsink cover throughout, keeping under 20 percent even while firing Gauss 2 at a time (obviously synthing more between attacks is necessary )

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GslUdgXTlFs