Silent stealth fighter - Cobra or Diamondback?

[geoffrey.hdt]

Hi commanders,


I have read a few posts telling how awesome the Diamonback Scout is at being a stealth assassin:
- No shield, packed up with heatsinks, rank A powerplant, railgun or kinetic weapons
- Interdict or await to be interdicted
- Enable silent running, now your opponent cannot see you on the radar, cannot target you/your modules
- Stab him in the back, keep moving
- If temperature goes too high, use a heatsink

I'm pretty eager to try that myself, though i'm busy with the current community goals as well as keeping my rank 3. So I may use an advice or two, as well as getting your thoughts about that.

My main question is: why the Diamonback and not the Cobra?

Here are two builds i am thinking about:

Cobra:
http://edshipyard.com/#/L=702,9qS9qSCVvCVv0Wg0Wg,324s6Q6u5K4s5K6k,15O15O15O12G12G9qm
+ max boost speed, pretty nice to get the hell out when things turn bad
+ more/bigger internal slots, used them for hull reinforcement package, ending up in armor rating = 636 (with mirrored bulkhead equivalent to 2544 against thermal weapons!)
+ medium hardpoints convergence, perfect for two railguns
- two utility mounts only, still able to carry 8 ammo heat sinks
- bigger ship, easier to hit with fixed weapons

Diamondback:
http://edshipyard.com/#/L=70h,CVv9pCCXT9qS0Wg0Wg0Wg3wK,324s6Q6u3m4s3m6k,13q13q13q9qm
- slower than Cobra
- less and smaller internal slots, using reinforcment pacakges armor rating reaches "only" 396.
- hardpoints convergence for left / right side only, you end up with a medium + a small hardpoint converging
+ four utility mounts, can even have the luxury to have a KWS (but I hate having to search for the right systems to cash-in the bounties!) and have in the end more heat sink ammo
+ smaller ship, more agile, harder to hit with fixed weapons

Let me know, so far i'd personally go Cobra (again! I have already 7 of them, with specific configurations, I'd love to try something else

 

[Zhang]

Inherently lower heat generation on the DBS.

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Or rather, inherently more efficient heat containment on the DBS. However you want to put it, it has a lower heat profile.

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In other words, the Cobra runs hotter. ROFL why am I repeating myself.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Inherently lower heat generation on the DBS.
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Or rather, inherently more efficient heat containment on the DBS. However you want to put it, it has a lower heat profile.

Do you have experience with both DBS and Cobra? The Cobra had been well known to run cold as well...
EDIT: Is the difference THAT big?

In other words, the Cobra runs hotter. ROFL why am I repeating myself.

 

[IronGremlin]

I would go for the DBX.

Having a high alpha strike capacity and long effective engagement range would be critical to success, and you would need the extra punch from that large hardpoint.

Unfortunately, the only weapons with that kind of damage and effective range also generate a bunch of heat, which could get hard to manage.

Also keep in mind that hiding your signature from NPCs won't work as well as hiding from player pilots - I'm not sure that this strategy will be very effective in most PVE encounters, but I look forward to hearing about trying to pull it off.

Good luck commander!

This maybe:http://coriolis.io/outfit/diamondback_explorer/04A4D5B3D4B3D5C2b2a2a0202000l2b2b020i6b.Iw1-kA==.Aw1-kA==?bn=DBX%20Stealth

I'd try it myself but don't have the cash on hand as I just recently bought an Asp.

 

[Frenotx]

Lookin' to give this build a try next time I can get over to the founders world.

 

[Ziljan]

Also keep in mind that hiding your signature from NPCs won't work as well as hiding from player pilots - I'm not sure that this strategy will be very effective in most PVE encounters, but I look forward to hearing about trying to pull it off.

Good luck commander!

Yeah I have noticed that the only way to lose NPCs is fly about 4km away and use heatsinks, at which point, stealth is kind of useless anyway. As for CMDRs, can they not see you as well as NPCs on their radar? I have never had stealth used against me in combat.

 

[IronGremlin]

As I understand it, stealth is more reliable against commanders bevause they almost always have crap sensors and are less likely to notice a momentary blip on their scanner, but this is hearsay.

 

[Pinger]

Never used a ship is such a way, but I regularly lose Target lock of an already targeted Diamondback Scout/Explorer that is not in combat when checking for bounty/wanted status of it. So either of the diamondbacks I would say.

 

[nikos]

Railguns and silent running don't really go together. This may work with NPCs only, by entering instance, firing without silent running and then enabling it only when opponent is facing you.

Given you have no shields there is a dilemma: do you go with a heat-efficient A plant, or an armoured B plant? It's not obvious, especially given you can't repair the power plant with an AFM. To keep playing for some length of time I use a B plant on my silent Asp.

Chaff is very useful for when you really have to stop silent running, so more utility points are essential.

High agility is also essential because with all the armour and hull reinforcements you will be heavier than when shielded.

 

[Kazacy]

I tried silent running in Cobra vs a hostile gang (ok i admit, i atacked another Cobra and i was baited), and it works, barely. After i started silent mode, i change the course to a high jump, and after a few no fire seconds, they started to shoot in my general direction, but they fail. I manage to high jump with minor damage.
In the end it's not an iwin key, but it can be used to pull a Sir Robin.
P.S. i also have on Cobra the darkest paint from tactical pack, in my opinion it's very useful for this kind of situation.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

question no the sideline - do i still have to manually power-manage my heatsinks and chaffs to not have them all shoot at once?

 

[Kazacy]

question no the sideline - do i still have to manually power-manage my heatsinks and chaffs to not have them all shoot at once?

If you assign separate keys/joystick buttons to chaffs and heatsinks, and all chaffs and heatsinks, are online, every keypress will release exactly one chaff or heatsink. Only for scb's you need to use manual power management.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

question no the sideline - do i still have to manually power-manage my heatsinks and chaffs to not have them all shoot at once?

Well - you can also assign them to different firegroups and use them with primary/secondary fire.

Considering the OP - I've thought about it for quite some time but never tried due to hull upgrades and bulkheads not protecting subsystems. Most of my plans revolved around the FDL - plenty of utility slots for heatsinks and the plant is rather hard to hit. Second choice would be a dropship due to it's armour.

 

[Katkon]

I've flown a stealth DBS and the best weapon for prolonged silent running is - without a doubt - as many multi-cannons as you can fit. Other weapons work fine, of course, you just need be prepared to switch silent running on and off frequently if you use them, as you'll get through heat sinks way too fast otherwise... especially with railguns. Also think about your target type: with NPCs, gimbaled weapons work well vs fixed for CMDRs. Railguns are better against large/close/slower moving targets... I haven't tried the Cobra for stealth because I dislike its weapon hardpoint positions and its vastly inferior maneuverability vs DBS.

 

[Gedemon]

I used a Viper in stealth mode to get near (and attack) Capital Ships when they were camping spots for CMDRS, it does the job to get in and out of the zone alive, but I wouldn't have tried it in pure PvP, it's too dependent of your opponent configuration IMO.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

never tried due to hull upgrades and bulkheads not protecting subsystems.

While silent running, except if you are close (I believe 300-500m or so), your modules cannot be targeted. That's why i put so many hull reinforcement package.
As for railguns, I plan to use them at long range (about 2km)...Cobra top speed should help to get at that range.
I have also a macro that enable silent running for 1s, then disable for 0.5s, and so, and so...would help when not really needed and help to cool down and limit the use of heat sink...but 8 heat sinks is already quite a lot.
Remember, i want to use this as an assassin (PvP, forgot to mention) config, quick kill

 

[Frenotx]

Been messing around with my stealth DBS, and have settled on this build:
http://coriolis.io/outfit/diamondba....AwRj4yVEg===.EwBhEYy6s9yA?bn=Stealth Fighter
I fit a 3A powerplant instead of a 4A so that when I deploy my hardpoints, all non-combat modules automatically switch off (thus saving heat and micromanagement). NPCs seem to have a pretty hard time hitting me due to low heat, even if I disengage silent running and just keep some distance. The main thing that's threatening me are turrets, oddly enough. If I make a close pass, the turrets usually get one or two shots off on me even when rigged for silent running. Presumably, it's that minimum signature size that's allowing them to lock and take those few shots.

Something to note: While this build works fairly well against single targets, it has issues with groups. Took on a python being escorted by a viper. The viper was able to get and stay close enough to me while I was fighting the python to lock on, and pummel me pretty hard. Managed to take them both out (for a whopping total of ~300k bounty ), but used all but one of my heatsinks, most of my chaff, and was down to 45% hull. Pretty good setup for a single-target assassination, not great for staying out in the field for an extended time.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Been messing around with my stealth DBS, and have settled on this build:
http://coriolis.io/outfit/diamondba....AwRj4yVEg===.EwBhEYy6s9yA?bn=Stealth Fighter
I fit a 3A powerplant instead of a 4A so that when I deploy my hardpoints, all non-combat modules automatically switch off (thus saving heat and micromanagement). NPCs seem to have a pretty hard time hitting me due to low heat, even if I disengage silent running and just keep some distance. The main thing that's threatening me are turrets, oddly enough. If I make a close pass, the turrets usually get one or two shots off on me even when rigged for silent running. Presumably, it's that minimum signature size that's allowing them to lock and take those few shots.

Something to note: While this build works fairly well against single targets, it has issues with groups. Took on a python being escorted by a viper. The viper was able to get and stay close enough to me while I was fighting the python to lock on, and pummel me pretty hard. Managed to take them both out (for a whopping total of ~300k bounty ), but used all but one of my heatsinks, most of my chaff, and was down to 45% hull. Pretty good setup for a single-target assassination, not great for staying out in the field for an extended time.

Thanks for sharing your experience on the field!
I aim PvP assasination and since my greatest fear is a wing of Clippers going after me, that is one of the reasons (see OP) why I consider the Cobra. With your config, what is your top speed (with fuel tank almost empty)?

 

[Frenotx]

Thanks for sharing your experience on the field!
I aim PvP assasination and since my greatest fear is a wing of Clippers going after me, that is one of the reasons (see OP) why I consider the Cobra. With your config, what is your top speed (with fuel tank almost empty)?

4 to ENG and 2 to WEP (no point in any other distribution), 309 cruise speed, peak 415 boost speed.

Since clippers rely on at least some amount auto-aim weaponry due to their hardpoint placement, I don't think you'd have too much trouble escaping. Chaff, and run straight at them when they first pull you down, so they need to take the time to turn around. You shield should protect you from the few hits they get off at the start. As soon as your shield fails, enable silent running. If you have a second, manually switch off the shield when you do- it will save you some heat. Use chaff and heatsinks as needed, and high-wake out of there.

 

[askavir]

Still prefer the Cobra than either os the DBs. Much faster, more cargo, more nimble than the larger DB... Better for smuggling, BB missions and occasional combat.

The DB Explorer larger fuel tank is good for explorers i reckon, but stil both DBs fall short to the Cobra on module space alone.