Simple Solution to Gankers versus Carebears
- Thread starter Lestradae
- Start date
Lol, if you think those movies resemble the plots I gave you need to learn to stay awake when watching movies!
1. Murderously insane computer trying to bully crew member it couldn't murder into allowing it an opening to murder him.
2. Mostly non-violent, but I'm pretty sure most of those abductees were subject to some very non-consensual probing.
3. I fell asleep during this one, but I seem to recall some threat to keep people off Europa.
4. Doesn't Gary Busey's son blow up a space shuttle in a massive terrorist attack?
5. Also starring Matt Damon as an intergallactic murderhobo.
6. I thought Matt Damon died in the previous movie? I'll watch this one later.
In modern times, (most of) his films would greatly benefit from an /s rating.
I like the part where the Kurgan from Highlander is a drill Sergent and he puts a knife through Gary Busey's Son's hand.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Of course it is - PvE combat exists in every player's game - however it's up to each player to choose to play among other players who might want to engage them in PvP combat.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
What is the purpose of restricting weapons in the proposal?
Why should players require to commit to a choice for 90 days?
Right. At the moment it's a pointless exploit because the most you can do is get 8 million credits (wing of 4 shoots 1) which is a trivial amount of money, probably less than the rebuy on a lot of PvP ships, and certainly less than rebuy+the actual bounty. Keeping a few million extra credits is no big deal for the amount of trouble caused.
If bounties were uncapped, it would be a very convenient way to make them even less consequential than they currently are. At least at the moment if a player gets a 300 million bounty they have to either abandon the ship or pay off that bounty somehow, which will be at least a few hours mining to get it back.
The alternative, of course, is to say that as credits don't really matter you might as well make the bounty uncapped ... but then credits aren't a particularly valuable reward for hunting them in the first place either.
Certainly in theory. But in practice, how do you stop the bad guys just leaving any combat it looks like they might lose ... without also making it much harder for prepared traders to walk away from fights with the bad guys? Or do you mean literally reward hunting them, so driving them to high-wake is sufficient to get a payout?
And it's not like the bad guys in Elite Dangerous get any actual reward beyond the pretty explosion, and they're happy to carry on with it.
Simple: make hi-waking (and menu-logging) less easy. Defenses have increased many times over compared to offense, but the hi-wake time and menu-log is identical. It has made the entire game pretty much GodMode for all involved, PvE and PvP and only the intoxicated or inexperienced die involuntarily. The solution would be obvious: reset log-out timer when hit, slow down hi-wake by a factor of 10 for ten seconds when hit. Then cut all offensive and defensive engineering boni in four, slightly increase turret damage, link gimballed tracking to sensor class and give stacked defenses diminishing returns.
But the OMg-Griefers!-Traders will never have it. Which is ironic, because all the stuff that would result in a far better C&P is always shot down by the people who would ultimately benefit. But as long as they want their Safe Mode, 'griefers' get it too, and no C&P will ever work beyond some 'lol u ded' handwavium.
Slide towards ad-hom aside, that is my point. "Sci-fi movies" is a big net. Hardpoints not mandatory.
You really do need some coffee. I never said hardpoints are required. Really, read it again. I can make up piled of interesting sci fi stories that do not require hardpoints. ED however has none of that.
For example, here is The Martian in ED: you have an srv that can withstand all temperatures no matter how laughable. You can make fuel by rubbing two rocks together which you have an infinite amount of on any planet. You can repair your srv as often as needed, whenever you want, completely to factory-fresh status. You don't need to eat or drink. If you want you can have a spaceship land to pick you up wherever you are, even when you driven to the other side of the planet and the ship has no crew or autopilot. It will always take a minute at most. And if something happens to it you relog to magically find yourself back in space in a new spaceship, for free.
Wow, amazing! Cool story! So gripping and exciting!.
Any good story requires challenges, and part of the community (typically the elderly part) insists on removing them whenever they see one. And that doesn't make for an interesting game for anyone who wants some kind of challenge. Trading without hardpoints is absolutely trivial with zero risk. Exploration had zero risk. The biggest risk is falling asleep when jumping to a neutron star. We now have a module that automatically protects against even that.In any case, anyone who calls the reapers/Reaver's/Borg 'bullies' and because 'what they do isn't allowed in real life!' is an idiot. And the only real difference between a griefer and an evil Npc is a slightly higher challenge, while random evil nasty stuff is very much part of ED lore. FD needs to make sure absolute beginners are somewhat safe, and that is about it.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Not "the only real difference" at all - the "griefer" chooses to do what they do and presumably gains a measure of enjoyment / satisfaction from adversely affecting others' enjoyment of the game. NPCs, on the other hand, work within Frontier's pre-defined behaviours. One is a product of programming that can be changed at will by the Developer; the other is a player.
That is all in your head. All you objectively experience is a stronger ship flown better, providing a more difficult challenge. That you have psychological issues with someone else possibly enjoying him/herself is not really a problem in game design terms.
But what about being beaten at a game by another human, who might enjoy beating you, is so terrible to you? Does it bother you in other games too?
This is a solution to "gankers versus carebears"? Really? Make it easier for the gankers to get kills? If that's your solution I really can't imagine what you think the problem is.
I'm not in either camp. I don't want to be ganked, but I easily mitigate the risk by mode choice and blocking. If I was in Open and got interdicted I'd be likely to high-wake (if already set up) or menu log. But I think this issue is blown out of proportion. In over 1000 hours I've been destroyed by another player once and had to high-wake once. My only concern about the issue is therefore what might be misguidedly done to the game I enjoy in an attempt to "solve" it.
But I would like to repeat what I just said. "I don't want to be ganked". Unless maybe I have a bounty and they're collecting it. I want to play ED, not the "demo of superiority" game which is the only thing in someone else's head. Amazing strategies to get me "gud" or new game features to help me escape are therefore completely irrelevant: once they can be put into practice I've already failed by having my game interrupted.
And that is fine, so, stay in private.
You dont have a choice on what the rest of the world does.
And this is why ganking exist, and why it won't be solved. You quoted part of what I said, took it out of context and completely missed the point due to griefer-panic.
If you want it to stop you will need to have different security zones. These zones can only work if npcs can actually threaten griefers. They can only do that when defences are lowered and escape time is increased. This should be common sense.
Once you have an efficient c&p system most 'issues' would disappear; at least in high sec zones. But the "I need god shields to escape!" and "I need a button that always get me to safety in 10s!" and "I need to earn 100m cr/hr!" people created a system where no c&p can ever help them and no consequence ever threaten a griefer with billions of credits.
And at every single step of the way people warned against it and explained the consequences, but here we are. Well,if pve people want to be shortsighted: enjoy laying in the bed you made.
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Nice selective quoting. And my mode choice is my affair: I use Open, PG and Solo when it suits me.
I didn't say you did.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Not just in my head, no. The Developers would seem to have acknowledged that unfettered PvP has issues and they chose to offer each player the means to completely avoid it if they so choose.
Interestingly, Sandro had this to say on the topic of difficulty in context with PvP:
When games are played on equal terms, not at all.
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