Small detail changes which could improve sense of scale in ED

If you start an answer with a self congratulatory “no” then I will laugh at you...

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/583/267/e8a.gif

Nice try but you’re employing a Logical fallacy. Just because most people don’t have VR does not invalidate the solution.

Yes it does. For those of us without VR. And therefore sir, your assumption that we should invest in extra equipment instead of some simple graphical additions such as a human ground to judge scale deserves this:
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The biggest issue for me in 2D is there are no visible people. I think just adding a ground crew guy on your pad would make you start to realise the scale.

Completely agree. I've also noticed how utterly vast the structures in Star Citizen look in comparison to ED - and that's basically down to space legs and viewing the world from that perspective. Actually, that's pretty much the only reason I'm interested in space legs for ED - to get that sense of scale.
VR sounds amazing but since I can neither afford the tech nor have the strength to wear the headset (I'm disabled) it's just something I'm going to have to live without. Being prone to motion sickness doesn't help either.
 
Sorry to hear that Shoestring, but as already stated in this thread, the answer is "VR". Hopefully, VR will improve and become more affordable so you can have the opportunity to enjoy it.

For players that don't have VR, I can only recommend you find a friend or game store that has a VR headset and try it out. Also take a look at the VR sub-forum, plenty of info there for anyone thinking about VR.
 
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NPC people would help with sensing the scale. I'd like to see a little person with batons waving me onto the landing pad :)

And fitters swarming over my ship in the Outfitting Bay
 
Little human figures around the pads.

Viewed very up-close, they need not be super detailed. But from the cockpit, where they would impart the most impressive sense of scale, even pretty basic forms walking, pointing and directing unseen action, and whatnot... Would be impressive.
 
There are quite a few fundametal problems with scale in the game that can't be fixed with VR. Such as:

* Ships have windows that are several hundred square meters in area, even though they are made to look like modern ships and aircraft that have them orders of magnitude smaller. Look at the B2 bomber's cockpit (huge bomber with a crew 2 or 3) and the viper's or the eagle's (small single seater fighters):

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* Props inside the cockpits are wildly out of scale with what we'd expect. Those handholds you see? Take a closer look with the ctrl-alt-space camera. They're about two feet long. The fire extinguisher? For use in low-G only, unless you spend a few hours in the gym each day. The spyglass-looking thing in the DBS? Not for human-sized eyeballs :)
 
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* Props inside the cockpits are wildly out of scale with what we'd expect. Those handholds you see? Take a closer look with the ctrl-alt-space camera. They're about two feet long. The fire extinguisher? For use in low-G only, unless you spend a few hours in the gym each day. The spyglass-looking thing in the DBS? Not for human-sized eyeballs :)

I went one step further and walked around a few of the cockpits in roomscale. I've done this before, of course, but had to refresh my memory - I don't recall things having looked "wildly out of scale" in any of the cockpits I've visited.

None of the ships in the station I'm docked in had fire extinguishers or spyglasses so I can't comment on them but I'll have to call donkey doo doo on the handholds. They're all exactly the right size to be grabbed by a human hand. If anything, the space between the handle and the wall looked a bit narrow on some of them, at least if you imagine someone with big hands wearing thick gloves trying to use them. On a NASA spacecraft the handles would probably be larger and farther away from the surface. The handles on the Clipper cockpit are an exception, at least there's ample extra space from the depression under the handle.

The keyboards in SW and Cobra mk3 are the right size for a usable keyboard - maybe slightly on the smaller side but not to an extent where it would look strange. I have never used a BBC micro but it looked consistent with other microcomputers from the era that I have seen. The original rubber speccy was even smaller if my memory serves.

The only things that looked too large to me were both found on the Type 6 - the huge volume of empty space above the pilot, which may look awkward in a picture looks even stranger when you're standing on the small floorspace below and looking up - there's no reason for that space to be there. Also the computer screens behind the pilot's seat (why are they behind him anyway? You can't see them there and I bet most non-VR players don't even know they're there), they look bulky, like something from the 70's, but I guess that's more of an art style thing than a "this thing was scaled wrong" thing. I could imagine them existing on the set for Alien. The number pad on the door on the other hand looks the right size and right height.

The cockpit / bridge on my Clipper is excessively spacious as ever but I guess that can be pinned on the Imperials wanting their interiors to feel as luxurious and extravagant as possible.

You may have a point about the canopies being larger than "what we'd expect" but then again none of us has seen a real starship and if we start nitpicking about realism there are dozens of things that are "wrong" about how the ships in Elite (and in majority of SF movies / games / TV) are designed; the first thing being that these ships would be very unlikely to have glass canopies in the first place. Just stick a bunch of telescopic cameras around the hull and have the pilot observe things through a VR headset or something like that bubble-like cockpit with projected 360° view in Rogue System. If anyone were manually piloting these ships at all that is, instead of letting a computer do it.

In VR most of the canopies don't actually feel wrong to me, some Lakon ships being an exception.
 
I use VR and it still doesn't solve the scale issue for me.

Potential reference points like the aforementioned bundles of cables seem to 'big'. Yes it's feasible to get a cable with a 1.5m diameter but smaller cabling would sell the scale more.
Similarly I find the lights too big (individual light points, and those colossal light strips along the side of Farraguts), also plumes of vapour, damage 'scuffs', and the general chunkiness of ships edging. They just all seem too big to me and undermine the sense of scale, even in VR where the general geometry feels correct.

But then I am a fool.

I don't agree with anything you said. But I am a fool too. :D
 
Since going to VR I find it very difficult to go back due to the sense of scale that it immediately realises.

Personally, I have no desire to go back... For all of VR's shortcomings (e.g. SDE), it is still an amazing technology that completely transforms E: D.
 
I went one step further and walked around a few of the cockpits in roomscale. I've done this before, of course, but had to refresh my memory - I don't recall things having looked "wildly out of scale" in any of the cockpits I've visited.

None of the ships in the station I'm docked in had fire extinguishers or spyglasses so I can't comment on them but I'll have to call donkey doo doo on the handholds. They're all exactly the right size to be grabbed by a human hand. If anything, the space between the handle and the wall looked a bit narrow on some of them, at least if you imagine someone with big hands wearing thick gloves trying to use them. On a NASA spacecraft the handles would probably be larger and farther away from the surface. The handles on the Clipper cockpit are an exception, at least there's ample extra space from the depression under the handle.

The keyboards in SW and Cobra mk3 are the right size for a usable keyboard - maybe slightly on the smaller side but not to an extent where it would look strange. I have never used a BBC micro but it looked consistent with other microcomputers from the era that I have seen. The original rubber speccy was even smaller if my memory serves.

The only things that looked too large to me were both found on the Type 6 - the huge volume of empty space above the pilot, which may look awkward in a picture looks even stranger when you're standing on the small floorspace below and looking up - there's no reason for that space to be there. Also the computer screens behind the pilot's seat (why are they behind him anyway? You can't see them there and I bet most non-VR players don't even know they're there), they look bulky, like something from the 70's, but I guess that's more of an art style thing than a "this thing was scaled wrong" thing. I could imagine them existing on the set for Alien. The number pad on the door on the other hand looks the right size and right height.

The cockpit / bridge on my Clipper is excessively spacious as ever but I guess that can be pinned on the Imperials wanting their interiors to feel as luxurious and extravagant as possible.

You may have a point about the canopies being larger than "what we'd expect" but then again none of us has seen a real starship and if we start nitpicking about realism there are dozens of things that are "wrong" about how the ships in Elite (and in majority of SF movies / games / TV) are designed; the first thing being that these ships would be very unlikely to have glass canopies in the first place. Just stick a bunch of telescopic cameras around the hull and have the pilot observe things through a VR headset or something like that bubble-like cockpit with projected 360° view in Rogue System. If anyone were manually piloting these ships at all that is, instead of letting a computer do it.

In VR most of the canopies don't actually feel wrong to me, some Lakon ships being an exception.

Well, if you've looked at it in VR then I stand corrected. But on my 32" screen with a TrackIR I feel like Frodo Baggins sitting in the Bree tavern :)
 
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