Horizons So, is ED going to do look into the new screwed interdiction mechanics ?

[Faded Glory]

Interdictions, and much much more, needs work. A LOT of work.

But, hey, Engineers are coming! Before that Power play was coming and before that Xbox was coming and before that CQC was coming. See a pattern?

I do. FD has consistently added new things on top of a buggy base game without addressing the issue many of us have been calling for for over a year now. I wish FD would take a look, like a lot of us have been asking, at the base or "core" of ED and fix that before they add things. I realize bug fixing, especially by pointing out the large number of existing, persisting, bugs and poor,sloppy game design, doesn't sell more copies of ED like advertising "New Features!" does but, IMO, FD has made and continues to make a huge mistake by continuing this policy.

I know some will say "But, but, engineers 2.1 is coming and they said bugs will be fixed!". Yes, yes, I know and we've heard that many times before , to no avail.

The OP's issue, while important, is just one of many, for whatever reason, FD has chosen to ignore in favor of new things no one asked for. I like new stuff as much as anyone but, if the foundation is shaking, the entire house will fall.

While I don't disagree at all, I don't think that FD see interdictions as being a big problem because it affects only a (presumably) small proportion of the player base. (It does affect me.) I have opened a number of support tickets regarding interdictions (the mechanics of, not the frequency) since 1.4 Beta, and support have always responded, and have always said that FD are 'monitoring' the situation. It's obviously not enough of a problem that they want to put resources towards it, plus, if it's network related, there's perhaps not a whole lot they can do.

I do agree that fixing underlying bugs would be a great move, and perhaps 2.1 will (for example) fix the mission issues that are so prevalent. If they do, it's a great signal, but if they don't... It will be a great shame.

 

[Sanderson]

While I don't disagree at all, I don't think that FD see interdictions as being a big problem because it affects only a (presumably) small proportion of the player base. (It does affect me.) I have opened a number of support tickets regarding interdictions (the mechanics of, not the frequency) since 1.4 Beta, and support have always responded, and have always said that FD are 'monitoring' the situation. It's obviously not enough of a problem that they want to put resources towards it, plus, if it's network related, there's perhaps not a whole lot they can do.

I do agree that fixing underlying bugs would be a great move, and perhaps 2.1 will (for example) fix the mission issues that are so prevalent. If they do, it's a great signal, but if they don't... It will be a great shame.

I feel your pain and agree. Unfortunately all the "little" things add up to a great "BIG" problem. Sad really because all of the little things can often outweigh the "new" stuff they are so happy to advertise. I hope they do some work on interdictions though.

 

[Arindor]

I successfully interdicted an assassination target and took hull damage and was spinning round on exit. Is this normal, or broken? Don't see NPCs doing that when I lose.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

My impression about current Interdiction is this :

- some are still bugged (warping Escape Vector), giving the same issues as they always have
- they're much harder than before
- keeping the Throttle in the center Blue zone often seems to help, sometimes alot (up to a point where it becomes dirt easy), regardless of the fact that Throttle setting supposedly doesn't play a role anymore
(I remember it was essentially "Mission Impossible" i.e. in a Python to evade a Cobra/Viper/Courier NPC... after I placed the Throttle into Blue Center, lo and behold - I can actually win these 90% of all times)
- any chance of placing an interdicting NPC near a Gravity Well by "playing" the Escape Vector and influencing the course of the two Ships drastically improves the chances of winning
- if alot is at stake... taking a nosedive into an Unsafe Disengage (Sun/Planet) actually breaks the Interdiction as well, at the price of a little hull damage
- being tied up much closer to a Gravity Well than the Interdictor seems to make things extremely more difficult, those are the ones I still frequently lose (in any Ship basically, sometimes even in very agile ones)

So all in all, I think it's still bugged in some form, but it kinda works.

Unsure what's the exact deal with the Throttle setting, all I can attest is that (after testing for some weeks now) it seems to help quite alot.
Feels as if the Ship then gets way more slack when not having the nose precisely in the center of the Escape Vector.

 

[Cat_Astrophe]

I used to fly with the mouse, now I have a saitek x55 which works very nicely.

".

It begs the question... You control your yaw how, exactly?

 

[Cat_Astrophe]

I successfully interdicted an assassination target and took hull damage and was spinning round on exit. Is this normal, or broken? Don't see NPCs doing that when I lose.

Seems to depend on which interdictor module you have mounted and how well you do when following the tether. Mount the cheap-o small interdictors and it happens more often... no, I take that back. Due to power constraints I use the smallest, cheapest module available. I ALWAYS end up spinning around and taking damage. That doesn't always happen when I use a better module.
>
Try it and see. Mount the biggest and most power hungry interdictor you can and test it out.

 

[Korben Dallas]

Yaw is X-axis joystick (left and right)
Pitch is Y-axis Joystick (forward and back)
Roll is twist left-right

This means I have all control centralized on one hardware device. The throttle is controlled with the throttle lever.

I'm sure you know what an x-55 is but here's a picture just in case.

http://www.saitek.com/uk/imgs/product/x55/Pro-Flight-X-55-Rhino-for-PC-01.jpg

 

[Korben Dallas]

While I don't disagree at all, I don't think that FD see interdictions as being a big problem because it affects only a (presumably) small proportion of the player base. (It does affect me.) I have opened a number of support tickets regarding interdictions (the mechanics of, not the frequency) since 1.4 Beta, and support have always responded, and have always said that FD are 'monitoring' the situation. It's obviously not enough of a problem that they want to put resources towards it, plus, if it's network related, there's perhaps not a whole lot they can do.

I do agree that fixing underlying bugs would be a great move, and perhaps 2.1 will (for example) fix the mission issues that are so prevalent. If they do, it's a great signal, but if they don't... It will be a great shame.

Well, we are not talking about a handful of players here. Google-ing this issue does not just produce a link to a thread or two. There are many complaints about it, the number of miscontent replies on this thread speak for themselves as well. If the used term is monitoring, and it really means ignoring, how much will that statement be taken seriously the next time it is used by an FD moderator or Dev on another subject when nothing comes of it in the long run. Well excusez-moi for becoming sarcastic.

If this were just a cosmetic glitch or a minor gameplay inconvenience, no one would make such a big deal of it. However I must agree with sanderson again here since they keep on adding new stuff instead of fixing the old first.

If it's a network issue and ED has no real control over the ISP's lag issues maybe they need to think out of the box and reinvent the interdiction to be completely connection independent. As far as I know a target cannot be interdicted by two human players at the same time. So why does there need to be a constant connection between server and client while the mini game is taking place ? We're talking about David Braben who was genius enough to put the whole galaxy on a 3.5 inch floppy disk 25 years ago. I'm sure they don't lack the skills to solve the problem. But instead of sending us off with an excuse of monitoring and looking into it, they should tell us WHAT is being done about it and HOW we can help them out to SOLVE it QUICKLY.

This is not just an ugly paint scheme that you can turn on or off, or a ship design that seems to be a pale shade of its concept drawing and you don't fly it, or a weapon that you don't feel like using and you avoid mounting it. This is a CORE gameplay mechanic which needs to get priority and testing ASAP... Thorougly!

 

[Cat_Astrophe]

Yaw is X-axis joystick (left and right)
Pitch is Y-axis Joystick (forward and back)
Roll is twist left-right

This means I have all control centralized on one hardware device. The throttle is controlled with the throttle lever.

I'm sure you know what an x-55 is but here's a picture just in case.

http://www.saitek.com/uk/imgs/product/x55/Pro-Flight-X-55-Rhino-for-PC-01.jpg

Yes, I know what an X55 is, but had no idea it has a twist on it. The sales documentation didn't list it, so I was curious. Since my last post, I've another half dozen 100% success interdictions and it makes me wonder why you have issues, as I don't dispute that you are having trouble. I'm well over 30 straight successes on the 60 plus count and if you made it any easier on me, it wouldn't have any challenge at all.
>
I'm using an X52 for roll and pitch and CH Products pedals for yaw... a bit different than you are set up and consistent with a regular flight sim. That's not saying there's anything wrong with how your gear is set up. If it works for you, it works! But it doesn't sound like it is working all that well for you somehow. I just don't follow how you have such difficulty when I have none. It ain't like I have L33T P1L0T 5K1LL5 or a sooper sekrit method.

 

[Faded Glory]

Well, we are not talking about a handful of players here. Google-ing this issue does not just produce a link to a thread or two. There are many complaints about it, the number of miscontent replies on this thread speak for themselves as well. If the used term is monitoring, and it really means ignoring, how much will that statement be taken seriously the next time it is used by an FD moderator or Dev on another subject when nothing comes of it in the long run. Well excusez-moi for becoming sarcastic.

If this were just a cosmetic glitch or a minor gameplay inconvenience, no one would make such a big deal of it. However I must agree with sanderson again here since they keep on adding new stuff instead of fixing the old first.

If it's a network issue and ED has no real control over the ISP's lag issues maybe they need to think out of the box and reinvent the interdiction to be completely connection independent. As far as I know a target cannot be interdicted by two human players at the same time. So why does there need to be a constant connection between server and client while the mini game is taking place ? We're talking about David Braben who was genius enough to put the whole galaxy on a 3.5 inch floppy disk 25 years ago. I'm sure they don't lack the skills to solve the problem. But instead of sending us off with an excuse of monitoring and looking into it, they should tell us WHAT is being done about it and HOW we can help them out to SOLVE it QUICKLY.

This is not just an ugly paint scheme that you can turn on or off, or a ship design that seems to be a pale shade of its concept drawing and you don't fly it, or a weapon that you don't feel like using and you avoid mounting it. This is a CORE gameplay mechanic which needs to get priority and testing ASAP... Thorougly!

Just to be clear, I am affected by the issues with interdictions. Have been since changes were introduced in 1.4 beta, and I have been bug reporting and support ticketing it since then.

I am simply responding with information that I have had from tickets that I opened. I would love it to be fixed, I interdicted all the time when I was bounty hunting, but since the changes were implemented it has been a random, frustrating waste of time for me, and now do not have interdictors fitted in any of my ships.

The theory that network lag is involved has never been acknowledged by FD, but there are a few of us who think it could be a factor, and it can explain why some players have no issues at all, while for others it is a broken mechanic.

 

[Cat_Astrophe]

The theory that network lag is involved has never been acknowledged by FD, but there are a few of us who think it could be a factor, and it can explain why some players have no issues at all, while for others it is a broken mechanic.

>
If you are having trouble interdicting in solo mode, it isn't network lag. The whole shebang is right there on your comp, not on FDs server. It is then down to you, your skill level, and your control method.
>
So what is your control scheme?

 

[Faded Glory]

>
If you are having trouble interdicting in solo mode, it isn't network lag. The whole shebang is right there on your comp, not on FDs server. It is then down to you, your skill level, and your control method.
>
So what is your control scheme?

Well, I generally play in group mode, but actually, I suspect that even in solo mode the interdictor / interdictee is still generated on servers... I don't know for sure, obviously, but since all modes are online, I imagine there is consistency about what is on the client and what is on the server.

I use a HOTAS, and if it's down to my 'skill level', which I cannot deny is possible, it's strange that I went from pretty much 100% success rate at interdictions prior to 1.4, to around 20% success rate (if that, it was always totally random), and that never really improved, no matter what techniques I tried out.

 

[Cat_Astrophe]

Well, I generally play in group mode, but actually, I suspect that even in solo mode the interdictor / interdictee is still generated on servers... I don't know for sure, obviously, but since all modes are online, I imagine there is consistency about what is on the client and what is on the server.

I use a HOTAS, and if it's down to my 'skill level', which I cannot deny is possible, it's strange that I went from pretty much 100% success rate at interdictions prior to 1.4, to around 20% success rate (if that, it was always totally random), and that never really improved, no matter what techniques I tried out.

I can see how network lag might be an issue in group mode, however I have also been in a wing in open and my wingmate missed about 1 of 10 interdictions. Perhaps you can try it in solo and see if your results are the same?
>
Out of curiosity, how good are you with fixed weapons? I'm asking because it is a fair measure of skill and steadiness with a JS. And how long have you been working with your hotas? And do you also have your hotas set up as Korbin does? Specifically, do you have yaw set as he does? I'm asking because it seems to me that the roll, being much faster than yaw at full control deflection, should be better set to a longer more precise throw than the twist on the JS. I know I would never try to set mine as he does... but I'm old and shaky. I have met a very few people who swear by that method... but they aren't here and it was more of a FPS operation the way they were doing it, rather than a flight sim style.
>
Edit: FWIW I agree with you that they made interdictions harder and they require more skill now. Still, I can't remember the last time I failed one since shortly after the change... but in the interest of disclosure, I'm a flight sim junkie and have buttloads of time with my control setup, which is dual JS/footpedals in normal space. In supercruise it reverts to single JS/footpedals. I've qalso seen people buy a HOTAS without understanding there's some serious adjustment time needed to develop the muscle memory needed to be effective. Makes me want to cry sometimes(but gets me good deals on used hardware when they sell their stuff for cheap).

 

[avow555]

Interdictions are all over the place just now.
Sometimes they work as expected but equally you get the instant drop, can't locate the escape vector and I even had one which failed to drop me despite submitting instantly.
All things considered it seems very unpredictable and I would suggest the code is borked.

 

[Faded Glory]

I can see how network lag might be an issue in group mode, however I have also been in a wing in open and my wingmate missed about 1 of 10 interdictions. Perhaps you can try it in solo and see if your results are the same?
>
Out of curiosity, how good are you with fixed weapons? I'm asking because it is a fair measure of skill and steadiness with a JS. And how long have you been working with your hotas? And do you also have your hotas set up as Korbin does? Specifically, do you have yaw set as he does? I'm asking because it seems to me that the roll, being much faster than yaw at full control deflection, should be better set to a longer more precise throw than the twist on the JS. I know I would never try to set mine as he does... but I'm old and shaky. I have met a very few people who swear by that method... but they aren't here and it was more of a FPS operation the way they were doing it, rather than a flight sim style.

I am pretty sure I tried solo mode too when I was still bothering with interdictions, and no, it made no difference. (I also experimented with all the 'forum wisdom' suggestions of throttle setting and size / class of interdictor, and tried different ships that, according to FD support, should have made the job easier and the outcome more favorable. All to no avail.)

I have my yaw set to the 'twist' axis on the joystick, so not the same as the other poster if I read his response correctly.

I won't claim to be great with fixed weapons, and I will certainly never claim to be a 'top gun' pilot (I do use a PA in one of my ships). However, skill and steadiness with a joystick seem irrelevant when the targeting reticule is often outside of the range of the joystick. As I said, I've been affected by this since the changes in 1.4, and I've seen numerous youtube videos of steady smooth mini-games, and this is not the experience I get with it. I get a wildly veering reticule that is often completely off the screen (and yes, I'm trying to follow it ).

Anyway, I live without interdictions now <shrug>, and being interdicted doesn't bother me as I always submit and destroy the interdictor, but it's still disappointing.

And just to say, one of the reasons I believe it's lag / latency (I know I suffer from it as often in dogfights I will get some lag jerkiness, and even though I play in group, it is extremely rare for me to ever see another player), is that it would explain why some players are completely unaffected by the issue, and never, or very rarely even experience it, while for others it makes it a broken mechanic. I don't believe it's a 'skill' thing, as I believe FD don't create mechanics that demand above other than average skills, and when they do (FA OFF and fixed weapons for example), those are opt-in mechanics for which there are alternatives, not core ones. I suspect the majority of the player base have average piloting skills, and I'm guessing the majority of the player base manage interdictions just fine, hence why FD aren't prioritizing 'fixing' it, if they are even considering it at all.

As to my own skills, they are what they are, and as I said earlier, I don't claim to be a 'top gun' pilot, but I am Deadly combat rank, and can engage wings of NPCs successfully, so I presume I can use a HOTAS at least competently.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

I have found to have any hope of defeating an NPC interdictor I must use the directional thrusters to chase the escape vector. Stick input alone is not good enough.

I also have had the "FSD fail after submitting message shown on screen", the shaky ones that insta fail, the ones where the NPC interdicts you then flies into a sun...

 

[Faded Glory]

[snip]
I have found to have any hope of defeating an NPC interdictor I must use the directional thrusters to chase the escape vector. Stick input alone is not good enough.

That's a bit strange, as I'm pretty sure that the directional thrusters do not have any effect in SC. Obviously, if it works for you then great, but strange (IMO) nonetheless.

 

[Cat_Astrophe]

I am pretty sure I tried solo mode too when I was still bothering with interdictions, and no, it made no difference. (I also experimented with all the 'forum wisdom' suggestions of throttle setting and size / class of interdictor, and tried different ships that, according to FD support, should have made the job easier and the outcome more favorable. All to no avail.)

I have my yaw set to the 'twist' axis on the joystick, so not the same as the other poster if I read his response correctly.

I won't claim to be great with fixed weapons, and I will certainly never claim to be a 'top gun' pilot (I do use a PA in one of my ships). However, skill and steadiness with a joystick seem irrelevant when the targeting reticule is often outside of the range of the joystick. As I said, I've been affected by this since the changes in 1.4, and I've seen numerous youtube videos of steady smooth mini-games, and this is not the experience I get with it. I get a wildly veering reticule that is often completely off the screen (and yes, I'm trying to follow it ).

Anyway, I live without interdictions now <shrug>, and being interdicted doesn't bother me as I always submit and destroy the interdictor, but it's still disappointing.

And just to say, one of the reasons I believe it's lag / latency (I know I suffer from it as often in dogfights I will get some lag jerkiness, and even though I play in group, it is extremely rare for me to ever see another player), is that it would explain why some players are completely unaffected by the issue, and never, or very rarely even experience it, while for others it makes it a broken mechanic. I don't believe it's a 'skill' thing, as I believe FD don't create mechanics that demand above other than average skills, and when they do (FA OFF and fixed weapons for example), those are opt-in mechanics for which there are alternatives, not core ones. I suspect the majority of the player base have average piloting skills, and I'm guessing the majority of the player base manage interdictions just fine, hence why FD aren't prioritizing 'fixing' it, if they are even considering it at all.

As to my own skills, they are what they are, and as I said earlier, I don't claim to be a 'top gun' pilot, but I am Deadly combat rank, and can engage wings of NPCs successfully, so I presume I can use a HOTAS at least competently.

Have to admit, I'm not as steady during interdictions as some youtubers either... but again, I'm old and shaky.
>
So, you get some lag? Interesting... Ok, 2 things come to mind. Presuming your skill level is sufficient, what about that lag? Can you lower your graphic settings and see if you can eliminate it? I'm wondering if the lag is throwing you off... or a slow framerate. Beyond that, I'm wondering about your nonlinearity settings on your JS. If it is set poorly, you will have issues with steadiness. And I have to tell you, if they made interdictions any harder at all, I WOULD be failing them regularly!
>
Edit: Oh, forgot, what is your typical framerate?

 

[Faded Glory]

Have to admit, I'm not as steady during interdictions as some youtubers either... but again, I'm old and shaky.
>
So, you get some lag? Interesting... Ok, 2 things come to mind. Presuming your skill level is sufficient, what about that lag? Can you lower your graphic settings and see if you can eliminate it? I'm wondering if the lag is throwing you off... or a slow framerate. Beyond that, I'm wondering about your nonlinearity settings on your JS. If it is set poorly, you will have issues with steadiness. And I have to tell you, if they made interdictions any harder at all, I WOULD be failing them regularly!
>
Edit: Oh, forgot, what is your typical framerate?

No, my framerate is pretty decent (solid 60 fps in SC). I actually thought it might have been that, but when I upgraded my GPU for Horizons I tried interdicting again, and still no go.

My joystick is 'calibrated' using a program called Joystick Curves, so I don't think it's that. Not saying that I'm the most steady operator, but as I said before, not a lot you can do if you cannot see / follow the reticule.

Why I think it's lag? I live in a pretty remote location, and even though I have a relatively fast cable connection, I am at best at least 50 miles from my ISP's nearest servers, depending on which servers it has chosen to connect me to, and possibly a whole lot further.

As to you failing them if they were harder, did you actually fail them a lot after they made the initial changes in the 1.4 beta? They eased up the 'challenge' before 1.4 went live (no discernible difference from my end), and I believe they may have adjusted it even since then. The challenge, by the way is the percentage of time an NPC will spend 'on target', as that is primarily what was changed.

 

[Cat_Astrophe]

No, my framerate is pretty decent (solid 60 fps in SC). I actually thought it might have been that, but when I upgraded my GPU for Horizons I tried interdicting again, and still no go.

My joystick is 'calibrated' using a program called Joystick Curves, so I don't think it's that. Not saying that I'm the most steady operator, but as I said before, not a lot you can do if you cannot see / follow the reticule.

Why I think it's lag? I live in a pretty remote location, and even though I have a relatively fast cable connection, I am at best at least 50 miles from my ISP's nearest servers, depending on which servers it has chosen to connect me to, and possibly a whole lot further.

As to you failing them if they were harder, did you actually fail them a lot after they made the initial changes in the 1.4 beta? They eased up the 'challenge' before 1.4 went live (no discernible difference from my end), and I believe they may have adjusted it even since then. The challenge, by the way is the percentage of time an NPC will spend 'on target', as that is primarily what was changed.

>
Immediately after the change, I was failing perhaps 30%... for a very short period of time. I have to admit here that I have been paying almost no attention to what they patch or when, so have no idea as to when they made adjustments. After noting the increased difficulty, I started paying more attention and trying harder and I would still fail 10-20% of the time. You may well be spot on about adjustments past the initial change, as I have an unbroken string of successes that is likely 100 or more, considering I am a full time BH/Mercy. Edit: However, I come very close to losing interdictions very regularly. The current difficulty definitely pushes to the limits of my skills, such as they are.
>
What's odd to me is that you have seen little or no change on your end. If the description we are given is correct, it is all on your comp in solo and not on FD servers, so network lag wouldn't affect things. If the FD server was hosting the session, then I could see it as a possibility, but they say it doesn't work that way.
>
If you will indulge a few more questions... What ship/module are you typically using? I'm usually in a FDL or FAS with the smallest, cheapest interdictor installed. And what JS are you using? I'm acquainted with JS curves. Why are you using it in this case? (And yes, I get that it is unlikely to be the issue, but I've the curiosity of a cat.) What I'm thinking here is to duplicate your ship/loadout and see what happens.