So, what was the 2018 LEP content that is now delayed?

[Mengy]

I've been lamenting the loss of the new ice planets ever since Zac's announcement, but today I've found myself wondering:

Just what was the 2018 LEP content which is now delayed?

Obviously Frontier had something planned, yet we still don't know anything at all about what this content was (is?). It's reasonable to assume that they started work on the 2018 LEP content earlier this year. This, coupled with the news from Zac that they've just now started production on the next big new thing for Elite's future means that the 2018 LEP was most likely NOT Atmospheric Landings or Legs, because it stands to reason with a high degree of probability that one of those two is this "next big step" which Zac referred to. So the 2018 LEP content probably wasn't either of them.

So what was it then?

My hunch is the 2018 LEP content was Gas Giants. We've heard David talk about gas giant gameplay as recently as a year ago, plus it stands to reason that doing GG atmospheres would be a reasonable precursor to adding atmospheric landings, as the two could share a lot of the same tech and code. So as a development step gas giants makes sense from a progression point of view.

Some other possible LEP content which I think could have been possibilities, excluding atmospheric landings and space legs:

• Player built and owned surface bases.
• Volcanic world landing permit.
• NPC Crewmates for Multicrew, sold as a permit to hire them?
• Permit to fly Very Large ships which can't fit through the slot, like the Panther Clipper for example.

Any other theories on what it was that we won't be getting in 2018 now?



PS: For anyone who doesn't know that LEP owners were supposed to be getting content in 2018, here is Zac's original quote from over a year ago:

Spoiler

 

[Makaan]

I've been lamenting the loss of the new ice planets ever since Zac's announcement, but today I've found myself wondering:

Just what was the 2018 LEP content which is now delayed?

Obviously Frontier had something planned, yet we still don't know anything at all about what this content was (is?). It's reasonable to assume that they started work on the 2018 LEP content earlier this year. This, coupled with the news from Zac that they've just now started production on the next big new thing for Elite's future means that the 2018 LEP was most likely NOT Atmospheric Landings or Legs, because it stands to reason with a high degree of probability that one of those two is this "next big step" which Zac referred to. So the 2018 LEP content probably wasn't either of them.

So what was it then?

My hunch is the 2018 LEP content was Gas Giants. We've heard David talk about gas giant gameplay as recently as a year ago, plus it stands to reason that doing GG atmospheres would be a reasonable precursor to adding atmospheric landings, as the two could share a lot of the same tech and code. So as a development step gas giants makes sense from a progression point of view.

Some other possible LEP content which I think could have been possibilities, excluding atmospheric landings and space legs:

• Player built and owned surface bases.
• Volcanic world landing permit.
• NPC Crewmates for Multicrew, sold as a permit to hire them?
• Permit to fly Very Large ships which can't fit through the slot, like the Panther Clipper for example.

Any other theories on what it was that we won't be getting in 2018 now?

Personally, I don't think they had anything. I think they made this decision a while ago but only told us now, going by what Zac said. If update 3.3 is "a number of weeks away." A decision like this isn't really going to have any impact on the focus of Q4 if only just made (the same goes for the Fleet Carriers and Ice Planets).

If I'm to believe there are now deeper and richer gameplay mechanics as well as significant new gameplay within update 3.3 that's come about because of the focus shift and re-prioritising. Then these decisions must have been made earlier in the year.

 

[Lightspeed]

What this does mean is that the rest of the content will be able to benefit for the changes in scheduling through deeper and richer gameplay mechanics.

Is it off topic to ask what this means? Deeper and richer gameplay as a result of excluding ice planets and fleet carriers ?

 

[Virgile]

My guess:

-The premium content was something really small from the beggining ( like ship skins etc) then they realise people were expecting some real premium content and so decided to say it was cancelled.

- It was some real premium content but they realised the big update they hope to achieve for 2019 is still far far away ( like en of 2020) so they decided to take this premium content wrap it up with some fleet carriers and nice ice planets to present it has 2019 free season of updates.

 

[Micha]

So basically they moved Ice Planets and Fleet Carriers from a free "Beyond" update into the next paid-for DLC.

I'm guessing they've decided Fleet Carriers and associated gameplay are a sufficiently large headline feature to sell instead of give away.

Mostly the announcement is the same as most have been recently - a lot of waffle saying absolutely nothing. Sorry, but I'm getting very tired of these types of non-announcements. Say something concrete, even if it's small, instead of promising something huge a year away which, by the time it arrives, is so overhyped its ho-hum. Haven't developers learned from the NMS debacle yet? KSP is a development team which knows how to engage with its player base with regular and detailed dev updates. What's the point of "Oooooo, this new thing we're working on, it's fantastic, but it's seeecrett! So we can't tell you anything. But it's really really awesome so neeener neener nee! Oh, and by the way, it means you're getting less in the next update. But the next-next Update will be fantastic! Trust us!".

As for me, I'll only be buying into any new DLC once I *know* in some level of detail (obviously I don't want exploration or storylines spoilt!) what it entails. Not going to buy the cat in a bag anymore as unfortunately I've been disappointed too often lately by the direction this game is heading.

It needs a MAJOR balance, consistency, and gameplay overhaul, which I thought "Beyond" was supposed to be.

 

[kofeyh]

Any other theories on what it was that we won't be getting in 2018 now?

Frontier would necessarily had to have changed the development path months ago, for anything more than minor mechanics changes. So, it might explain why the last two focus feedback sections ostensibly went nowhere, nor did the Powerplay discussion. They were no-longer relevant (at least at that time).

The lack of ice-planet changes means the likely terrain generation and lighting changes are potentially still yet to surface (that pun, tho!). Presumably some hurdles so it's just not ready. For anything alternative to exist, it would surely have needed months of work, to be more than tweaks to existing. The team do pretty impressive work at times, but that's seldom been "instant" in creation.

Honestly? I think Frontier are going down the Guardian path (oh my god it's another pun!) and are pushing that instead. Given the obvious time that would have gone into the new beacons and fighters, which seem to have had quite a lot of love poured into them, counterpointed to the pretty shoddy Crusader (what is the go with the painfully obvious texture issues, they just didn't check, didn't care or what?) I reckon we're getting Guardian stuff.

The degree of effort between an ordinary ship addition, and fairly lavish attention on guardian stuff is a bit telling to be honest. Maybe that can actually work out to offer more players more options? Hope so. They've dropped some fairly sought after content for whatever else is apparently the top priority.

The LEP content? I don't think there was ever a plan to provide any this year, to be fair. Nothing really announced would have supported the notion it was on the cards. They've managed to get to four years without really meeting that, and folks seem to be giving them endless time to get around to it. So, who knows. Maybe next year?

Perhaps SC betas firming up a bit and NMS' mammoth update has given Frontier a fright and they're realigning. They kinda need something from a motivational aspect because if there's just no competition, there is no real need to innovate.

 

[MrFailfactory]

This is a great question indeed, Mengy, and a lot of the potential answers are worrisome, to say the least.

Riôt

 

[Mengy]

What this does mean is that the rest of the content will be able to benefit for the changes in scheduling through deeper and richer gameplay mechanics.

Is it off topic to ask what this means? Deeper and richer gameplay as a result of excluding ice planets and fleet carriers ?

My best guess is that it's just salesman-speak in an effort to justify cutting major known features by attempting to sell other unknown things as good enough to compensate. Zac didn't specify what these "deeper and richer gameplay mechanics" are, so chances are they are very minor or else he would have probably utilized them to make the announcement more positive than it was.

 

[StuartGT]

So basically they moved Ice Planets and Fleet Carriers from a free "Beyond" update into the next paid-for DLC.

Nah:

This sounds like "we're taking out content from Beyond ch.4 and putting it in a future, paid update".

Man, this is disappointing.

Just to clarify that's absolutely not what's being said, or being done.

The future content that has started in production is a whole new era/chapter/milestone in Elite. Much like Horizons was and like Beyond was/is. Please rest assured that this post is not suggesting that we are taking content and moving it to paid for content later. Hope that helps.

 

[kofeyh]

My best guess is that it's just salesman-speak in an effort to justify cutting major known features by attempting to sell other unknown things as good enough to compensate. Zac didn't specify what these "deeper and richer gameplay mechanics" are, so chances are they are very minor or else he would have probably utilized them to make the announcement more positive than it was.

Occam's Razor, ostensibly. I think yes, Zac was simply trying to allay fears and instead of keeping the update clear and concise and thus reasonably understandable, felt the need to explain; unfortunately he made an otherwise bad (but understandable) situation worse (by it being incomprehensible and confused).

As I noted at the time, I understood less after the update, than I did before. Because there was a whole lot of words about nothing at all. Frontier try, but Sandy, too, tends to endlessly ramble (hell, I ramble as well, so I am no saint here); they all seem to.

 

[Blackcompany]

My best guess is that it's just salesman-speak in an effort to justify cutting major known features by attempting to sell other unknown things as good enough to compensate. Zac didn't specify what these "deeper and richer gameplay mechanics" are, so chances are they are very minor or else he would have probably utilized them to make the announcement more positive than it was.

All of which leaves me thinking that there isnt anything past beyond. That's it, done. Because if there anything at all concrete, Zac would have said so, to soften the blow.

As it is now, if I held Frontier stock, I'd sell. The PR nightmare that's going to ensue once people realize ED is dead, is going to be ugly.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I got the impression its some sort of consolation prize in the context of frontierstore.net.

I hope they actually make this decent. I think it could be anything, because while frontier marketing are of course going to limit their best offerings for exclusive limited time real $ sales, at the same time, frontier also demonstrate on a weekly basis their judgement of what is "good" in terms of a ship skin is completely questionable and well off the subjective mark in many cases.

If we ended up with the best ever iridescent black paints and it was exclusive (a fail because being exclusive just creates badwill and promotes the worst human foible) wouldn't be surprised, just as if frontier made fleet wide versions of the sabotage pack and genuinely thought wed like it.

All of which leaves me thinking that there isnt anything past beyond. That's it, done. Because if there anything at all concrete, Zac would have said so, to soften the blow.

As it is now, if I held Frontier stock, I'd sell. The PR nightmare that's going to ensue once people realize ED is dead, is going to be ugly.

That's complete . Haven't you seen david brabens attitude to frontier. To stop elite would be bad business given the cosmetics store and all the investment leading up to it to date. They look at games as services, not one off expenses to be written off and made money on once. At the worst, hes just looking at elite like any other business manager with growth targets, fixed resources and operational capability etc. Kinda like what happened to Apple once steve jobs died. Braben don't care about no science anymore, hes telling the world about enjoying being a ceo of a in context very successful public company.

 

[StuartGT]

All of which leaves me thinking that there isnt anything past beyond. That's it, done. Because if there anything at all concrete, Zac would have said so, to soften the blow.

Nah:

A while ago, our development went from pre-production into full production on our next major milestone of Elite development.

What that means in the simplest terms is that the team are actively working on the next major landmark which takes us into our next era for Elite. We aren’t going to be ready to talk about or announce any details for quite a while yet, it is early in the development and there is still a long way to go, but I can say that this is something that will be scheduled to release a considerable time after the final update in the Beyond series. We will have more details on exactly what this means and how the era will roll out after the release of Beyond – Chapter Four, but this does mark some exciting next steps and a continued commitment to the long term vision for the game and our community.

Naturally, there will be community questions that might come up from this information. We aren’t going to be ready to talk about what method or model the content will be. What we can say is that it’s expected to be a major milestone in the history of Elite and will be paid content. Lifetime Expansion owners will obviously receive the content as part of their pass.

As part of pre-production, the team investigate all areas of the content and scope them out thoroughly. It’s important to take the time to be clear on what the vision for this is and how we imagine the content working.

As it is now, if I held Frontier stock, I'd sell. The PR nightmare that's going to ensue once people realize ED is dead, is going to be ugly.

Ah, the old "please sell so that shares prices drop and I can profit from futures trading" strategy.


As to the OP: my guess is some feature that was originally planned to be a separate paid-for DLC (e.g. Gas Giants, one type of atmos world) but was reconsidered as having a low-marketing/sale potential so will now be included with the next expansion.

 

[Spacecat]

I'm guessing it's enhanced surface features and atmospheres (we already have fog, so it's not much of a stretch). I mean, why just enhance the ice planets, when you can wait and ENHANCE ALL THE PLANETS!

 

[Sylveria]

I'm guessing it's enhanced surface features and atmospheres (we already have fog, so it's not much of a stretch). I mean, why just enhance the ice planets, when you can wait and ENHANCE ALL THE PLANETS!

This actually crossed my mind- that perhaps they've discovered they can now introduce more than just Ice Planets with a bit more time. Maybe there's a bit more going on behind the scenes than some realize.

Of course, I'm sure Frontier won't receive much praise for that, just more negativity for having not released what was originally announced in the timeframe it was announced in. Personally, I'd be happy to be wrong if that were the case.

At this point, we can only speculate as to what they do or don't have, because not one of us knows for sure.

 

[kofeyh]

Nah.

Zac had the dubious task of advising that planned content was not coming, with no ETA on if/ when it will, and then, unfortunately, did I what I do at times. Rambled. A lot. I can afford to do that, because I am just a random commander, shooting the breeze.

I think it's better if the developer keeps the waffle to a minimum. He just, unintentionally, opened the door to a lot of second guessing and confusion; as if the forums somehow needs more of that, as it is! lol.

 

[kofeyh]

This actually crossed my mind- that perhaps they've discovered they can now introduce more than just Ice Planets with a bit more time. Maybe there's a bit more going on behind the scenes than some realize.

That was always the point; Ice Planet changes were essentially the first to showcase the new lighting and texture work. Clearly it's gonna take more time to get the groundwork done to achieve this. But my understanding was that that model would extend to a great many other planets. So that was a give in.

I personally would have preferred the clarity of "we tried, we ran out of time, sorry, we'll have an announcement shortly on where Q4 is at" over waffling about stuff Zac absolutely has no ability to share, as it's work that would barely have even started at this point, won't have any sort of coalesced design at this point, and just raises more questions.

I could have done without the "we've prioritised something else because it's more important" commentary though. This is sending quite the mixed message; what was important, doesn't matter, and what does matter, isn't important enough to clarify. That's just me though.

Meanwhile, LEP holders be like:

Spoiler

 

[Sylveria]

That was always the point; Ice Planet changes were essentially the first to showcase the new lighting and texture work. Clearly it's gonna take more time. But my understanding was that that model would extend to a great many other planets. So that was a give in.

I personally would have preferred the clarity of "we tried, we ran out of time, sorry, we'll have an announcement shortly on where Q4 is at" over waffling about stuff Zac absolutely has no ability to share, as it's work that would barely have even started at this point, won't have any sort of coalesced design at this point, and just raises more questions.

And I think the discord over the communication has more to do with the fact that such communication is seldom and quite inconsistent as it is- which rather enhances the reaction when it does come. The fact is we simply haven't been given enough information to know either way exactly what's going on, as I said all any of us can do is speculate at this point.

One way or the other, I've not "lost" anything I didn't have to begin with. I've gotten more than enough "value" in terms of this game already- anything else I get at this point is a bonus. I didn't buy Elite Dangerous nor Horizons for a pittance sale price, and I'm very satisfied with what I have. Would I like to see more? Sure! Do I feel there's improvements needed? Sure! Do I feel like Frontier "took me to the cleaners" because I didn't get everything I wanted on my personal wishlist? Nope.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I personally would have preferred the clarity of "we tried, we ran out of time, sorry, we'll have an announcement shortly on where Q4 is at" over waffling about stuff Zac absolutely has no ability to share, as it's work that would barely have even started at this point, won't have any sort of coalesced design at this point, and just raises more questions.

I could have done without the "we've prioritised something else because it's more important" commentary though. This is sending quite the mixed message; what was important, doesn't matter, and what does matter, isn't important enough to clarify. That's just me though.

Yeah same. Though you're more generous than me.. i went straight from fact to the possibilities (technical issues or decision to add more). PR waffle for bad news is intended to pacify and pat your head, its not "hype" or its lesser for "expectation". I hate the word hype btw. When people first started using it i always imagined someone with mental disabilities hyperventilating over a video game.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

When Ed talked previously it was quite obvious that they had idea of small sized premium DLC which later got scrapped. No, it was not big ticket item like space legs or atmospherics.

Did they know for some time? Yes, most likely. Most likely from beginning of summer. Why only now? Decision making and most likely balancing bad news with Q4 reveal.