So what's the deal with large gimballed beams?

[Krepose Gavayne]

Another point in favour of gimballed weapons is that they allow you more freedom to manoeuvre your ship while firing.

And this is why I love my gimballed beams. Most of the time my targets are not directly in front of me.

Plus, even when they wobble due to chaff the amount of on-target hits (i.e. time on target) is about the same as I achieve when using fixed weapons. When in close with bigger ships the wobble doesn't matter, at least as regards hull damage (obviously subsystem damage will decrease).

 

[Parmo]

OK. Fixed beams have been my default weapon in every boat ever, since the Sidewinder. In fact, I have never used a gimballed laser of any kind. However, sitting the Python's upper hard points, the convergence of the beams is not ideal, and anything smaller than a Cobra (including the damned thing) is a major annoyance. Hitting a sub target is not easy either but at least in that situation, both beams are hitting the target.
_
So I thought, let's give the god-forsaken gimbals a whirl and see what the fuss is all about.
_
First off, finding these things alone is a nightmare. I dropped into at least 10 hi-tech systems on my own, then into further 10 posted by commanders on the forum (April '15 data!). I found all the guns I could have ever imagined, except the large gimballed beams! For those who are interested, after what was Iliad and Odyssey combined, I got them in Wolf 906. Btw, people seem to claim that large gimballed cannon is 'rare', but every hi-tech station I visited was selling them.
_
Now. Let me say this. Large gimballed beams, and therefore I imagine all gimballed lasers, are absolute garbage! They constantly wobble about, take ages to align to firing position and when they finally fire, they jolly continue to wobble about, all over the place! Aimed at a power plant they even manage to miss the rest of the bloody Anaconda from a few metres away. Kiting anything? Forget it, these things are off-target some 80% of the time!
_
I am going back to fixed lasers only and never looking back, but the fail of gimbals is simply too spectacular to be believable or explicable! Am I missing something you think and if not, why the heck do 98% of loadouts recommend these terrible, useless, stupid things? And why are they so damn rare... it only goes about supporting this myth that they're best, which they clearly aren't?

Boat?!!!!

 

[Von Shadow]

Gimballed weapons are a compromise.... they offer higher accuracy for those of us who can't nail centre-targetted fixed.... at a reduced power delivery .... so if you're a crack-shot with fixed you'll do more damage .... but if you're in a slower ship against agile targets then you're overall amount of damaged delivered is a factor of
time-on-target * weapon power/second = damage

For me ... the lower power isn't an issue as i'll spend 2-3x more time firing on-target anyway than i would with fixed

Beams are good for shields but yeah ... they seem to track around more.... Pulse are better for hull damage (from what i understand) and given i'll spend more time taking on hulls than shields i have a mix of beam & pulse.

Burst i'm not at all convinced by

 

[Zplintz]

Perhaps the op wasn't waiting for the gimbals to lock on or was manoeuvring too hard for them to maintain the lock?

If you use multiple gimbals (or turrets), not all of them will be able to see or lock in to your target all the time.

 

[CmdrDaymian]

I've been using gimballed pulse lazers and autocannons on my Viper for about 4 days now and they're fine... as long as the target is 2.5km or closer to you. Any further than 2.5km and at least 50% of your shots miss.

Still, I can't use fixed because I suck at keeping things in my sights with a joystick so I have no choice but to use gimballed.

 

[aws357]

They are probably bad for ships with bad maneuverability, like python. To use them you need to be very close to enemy ship, like ~100m, and at >1km they are indeed completely useless. But when you manage to stay close enough they are awesome. They hit selected subsystem 95% of the time and does not require you to point at exactly the same spot on enemy ship.

Strange how I think exactly the contrary.

I played with a Python with fixed beams. It works great on initial approach (4 pips on engines, 2 on weapons) and for small ships, it is possible to eradicate them before reaching 1km if they have no shields to begin with.

But most of the time, the smaller more agile ship will lure you into dog fight. In these case most of the time, a fixed beam will be aiming at nothing while you turn.
You can try to get some distance, but in most case the smaller ships are faster than you.

So if you have a big heavy ships, gimbals and turret help correct the lack of agility.

I like to use the FA as a handbrake to make sharper turns.

With FA off + gimbals, the Python does not need to be agile, he just need to be able to turn toward the general direction of the target. And they never go further than 2km away from you...

I like to call it : the Jefferson Clay gambit.
[video]http://www.tubechop.com/watch/5777849[/video]

your mileage may vary.

 

[CMDR Derrida]

Just to be clear, are you talking about gimbled weapons in general or for the Python? The initial thread suggests for the python and the advantages you initially believed the gimbled beams might provide, but I notice the discussion has become a gimbled versus fixed discussion for any ship. I can't comment on the python (as I'm a few million short of that right now) but regarding fixed v gimbled, I think if you get into gimbled guns from the beginning, it's very hard to break out of. When I started playing, I took the advice of a couple of friends who play who told me to get gimbled asap (because it assists aim), but I've started reading forum threads by a few top players who swear by fixed. I've tried retraining myself to use fixed (beams in my vulture mostly) but I tend to give up too quickly as I start to feel a bit vulnerable (don't want to be taken down by commander Eager-Pants with the reflexes of an eight year old with adhd, who's just bought the game and is looking to make a rep for himself). I'd be interested to hear your opinions about this, as if fixed weapons are the way forward, I'm willing to take step back in order to take two steps forward. Any feedback is much appreciated, commanders!

 

[Rubbernuke]

Strange how I think exactly the contrary.

I played with a Python with fixed beams. It works great on initial approach (4 pips on engines, 2 on weapons) and for small ships, it is possible to eradicate them before reaching 1km if they have no shields to begin with.

But most of the time, the smaller more agile ship will lure you into dog fight. In these case most of the time, a fixed beam will be aiming at nothing while you turn.
You can try to get some distance, but in most case the smaller ships are faster than you.

So if you have a big heavy ships, gimbals and turret help correct the lack of agility.

I like to use the FA as a handbrake to make sharper turns.

With FA off + gimbals, the Python does not need to be agile, he just need to be able to turn toward the general direction of the target. And they never go further than 2km away from you...

I like to call it : the Jefferson Clay gambit.
[video]http://www.tubechop.com/watch/5777849[/url]

your mileage may vary.

Slo mo on my mark........could not resist

As a side note Jefferson Clay is an NPC name. I always feel guilty blowing him up. And what I would give for a PBC in ED

 

[Ancipital]

Don't better sensors increase your aim ability, what sensors are using?

No. FD have answered this more than once.

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

Don't better sensors increase your aim ability, what sensors are using?

Nope they don't. This has been confirmed.

 

[DidierDrbois]

Just to be clear, are you talking about gimbled weapons in general or for the Python? The initial thread suggests for the python and the advantages you initially believed the gimbled beams might provide, but I notice the discussion has become a gimbled versus fixed discussion for any ship. I can't comment on the python (as I'm a few million short of that right now) but regarding fixed v gimbled, I think if you get into gimbled guns from the beginning, it's very hard to break out of. When I started playing, I took the advice of a couple of friends who play who told me to get gimbled asap (because it assists aim), but I've started reading forum threads by a few top players who swear by fixed. I've tried retraining myself to use fixed (beams in my vulture mostly) but I tend to give up too quickly as I start to feel a bit vulnerable (don't want to be taken down by commander Eager-Pants with the reflexes of an eight year old with adhd, who's just bought the game and is looking to make a rep for himself). I'd be interested to hear your opinions about this, as if fixed weapons are the way forward, I'm willing to take step back in order to take two steps forward. Any feedback is much appreciated, commanders!

My question was not necessarily limited to Python or less agile craft, but gimballed lasers in general. I've never used them before last night and despite them being recommended everywhere, I find them rubbish. But as said, it may just be me.
_
As far as general discussion on fixed vs. gimbal is concerned, I'm all for fixed. But that, again, depends. On a boat as agile as the Vulture, gimbals are a complete overkill and I would even go as far as disabling gimbal or turret mounts on the official god-mode vessel. On a Clipper on the other hand, if you want both guns to hit one target, you must go gimballed.
_
Python's upper large mounts don't seem to be as bad as Clipper's but paired with her less-than-amazing agility, small agile craft are annoying as hell when you use fixed. You basically waste one laser all the time.
_
It's a balancing act and I love the fact that it is. I'll give it one more night of experimenting with gimbals, but I already see a very good chance of myself just swapping back over to fixed, regardless of their dogfighting inefficiencies.
_
Thanks again everyone who bothered to give me their insights!

 

[CMDR Derrida]

On a boat as agile as the Vulture, gimbals are a complete overkill and I would even go as far as disabling gimbal or turret mounts on the official god-mode vessel. On a Clipper on the other hand, if you want both guns to hit one target, you must go gimballed.

Official god-mode vessel huh...it does seem very powerful but I had no idea people thought of it this way, as although there are plenty of threads discussing the combat values of vulture/viper/cobra, I haven't seen anyone come right out and say, on paper this craft will easily kick the butts of viper/cobra/clipper/dropship...I'm assuming by youtube videos (Itchy Nipples in anaconda v vulture etc) that the anaconda in the hands of good players will still beat the vulture in the hands of good players, or am I wrong about this?

Hmmm, interesting stuff anyhow and I will certainly give fixed another go, thanks for the feedback!

 

[DidierDrbois]

Official god-mode vessel huh...it does seem very powerful but I had no idea people thought of it this way, as although there are plenty of threads discussing the combat values of vulture/viper/cobra, I haven't seen anyone come right out and say, on paper this craft will easily kick the butts of viper/cobra/clipper/dropship...I'm assuming by youtube videos (Itchy Nipples in anaconda v vulture etc) that the anaconda in the hands of good players will still beat the vulture in the hands of good players, or am I wrong about this?

Hmmm, interesting stuff anyhow and I will certainly give fixed another go, thanks for the feedback!

Sorry, Official PvE God Mode (tm) PvP is anyone's guess. I've seen a railgun-loaded Dropship total a Vulture. And before you ask, I'm a complete PvP lamer.

 

[Morbad]

Don't better sensors increase your aim ability, what sensors are using?

They don't increase accuracy, but they do increase the range you can lock on targets. This rarely matters much unless you are fighting CMDRs deliberately trying to run cold, or shieldless NPCs.

 

[Troa Barton]

Official god-mode vessel huh...it does seem very powerful but I had no idea people thought of it this way, as although there are plenty of threads discussing the combat values of vulture/viper/cobra, I haven't seen anyone come right out and say, on paper this craft will easily kick the butts of viper/cobra/clipper/dropship...I'm assuming by youtube videos (Itchy Nipples in anaconda v vulture etc) that the anaconda in the hands of good players will still beat the vulture in the hands of good players, or am I wrong about this?

Hmmm, interesting stuff anyhow and I will certainly give fixed another go, thanks for the feedback!

The anaconda can beat anything in a good players hands. 8 hardpoints hurt if they hit you doesn't matter what's equipped.
the vulture can stick in close but it has to stay there if it doesn't boom. There are a lot of tricks to throwing a conda around.
otherwise yeah the vulture is God mode except against ace pilots even in ships other than the anaconda. But that's a player matchup not a ship matchup.

 

[Super_Duty]

I have found that re-selecting the target will help sometimes when using gimbals.

 

[DidierDrbois]

the vulture can stick in close but it has to stay there if it doesn't boom.

Exactly this. And I find you don't even have to be that good to sit in an NPC's blind spot pretty much forever. God I hate the Vulture!

 

[Troa Barton]

Exactly this. And I find you don't even have to be that good to sit in an NPC's blind spot pretty much forever. God I hate the Vulture!

It's a love hate relationship for me. It's a fantastic ship and there is a lot of fun in being God of the arena but it's a lifeless tool that takes very little skill to operate at a high level especially concerning NPCs..

 

[Dandare71]

On a viper gimballed beams are not so good because the nose of the viper gets in the way too much meaning the weapons underneath can not target ships at the top end of the screen and vice versa with the upper weapons, on a vulture they are great.

 

[DidierDrbois]

On a viper gimballed beams are not so good because the nose of the viper gets in the way too much meaning the weapons underneath can not target ships at the top end of the screen and vice versa with the upper weapons, on a vulture they are great.

Glad you mentioned this, gimbals on the bottom of an Eagle are completely useless because of this. One more -ve point for gimbals then.