Powerplay Sol bubble Archer systems progress wiped

MrAustenM

M
Does anyone else think that it's kinda messed up that after the Thargoid invasion of Sol and the surrounding systems that now this area is just up for grabs as unoccupied in the powerplay system? I'm not even an Archer pledge, but that would have to feel pretty frustrating to their players to have their systems and stronghold gone just like that.

Plus it's supposed to be the capital of the Federation and really doesn't make any sense lore wise to just let any faction just roll into that space so easily.

Was this what Fdev intended or was it an oversight?
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
MrAustenM said:
Was this what Fdev intended or was it an oversight?
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Intended in a mechanical sense, absolutely - it was noted in the Powerplay 2 pre-release FAQ that any Thargoid state being applied to a system would completely clear out (as opposed to suspend) any Powerplay control of the system, and they presumably had this exact scenario already planned out by that point since the systems remaining near Cocijo's original location were never at risk.

It's quite possible this isn't the last we've seen of the Thargoids, either, so maybe next time it will be some other power whose systems get dropped. (If the general rate of Undermining doesn't pick up, then regular Thargoid attacks might be the only way to stop everything being a Stronghold for someone)


I expect "giant Powerplay battle for Sol in about three weeks when it becomes Acquirable again" is entirely intended too, though. I doubt Archer's supporters are going to make it at all easy for any non-Federal Power to take over there ... but it'll be more interesting than fighting over some no-name system in the suburbs if they can try.
 

Zechs Darius

Zechs Darius
Well the way I see it is that the latest Titan is merely a test of Thargoid War Mechanics with how they interact with PowerPlay.

The timing is just too.... There.

It was mentioned when PP was released that A Thargoid invasion could wipe a systems PP state. What, you think they would mention that and then abruptly end the war?

New Wave inbound...

Admittedly it does suck for Archer to be the "test" subject of this. But let's face it, we're all going to have to deal with it at some point.
 

MrAustenM

M
Would it make for some interesting PP gameplay? Absolutely. Having very significant systems on the line would make it way more interesting then fighting over systems we've never heard of.

But story wise it really isn't making any sense to me, unless I've missed something about the superpowers relationships with each other recently. From what I remember, they are technically at peace but in a cold war type of deal where they have proxy fights over some of the less significant systems, which fits well into the current Powerplay dynamic.

I don't know, maybe I'm just being fussy about the storytelling component in this, but I can't imagine a superpower not considering another power encroaching on their capital & center of power after a large scale disaster a total declaration of war. (Which would be epic if we could see a galactic war break out )

Hopefully they'll throw a galnet article explaining some of this at some point, especially when Sol becomes open for acquisition.
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
MrAustenM said:
but I can't imagine a superpower not considering another power encroaching on their capital & center of power after a large scale disaster a total declaration of war
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Frontier have always had this sort of problem with Powerplay: if players can in theory go wherever they like, then it's very risky to make that have any significance at all in terms of its potential to interfere with any other storyline they might want to run. Beta Hydri ... isn't quite Sol, but it is one of the Federal military permit systems and a founding member of the Federation. It got captured by ALD very early in PP1, and after various back and forths over the years is currently in Torval's hands. No-one in the Federation seems to care.

The PP1 attitude was that it represented a much less direct form of influence rather than any sort of formal control, and so it didn't "really" matter enough to start a war over. I'm not expecting that to change much - it can just be LYR (for example) gets celebrated for his "contributions to the reconstruction of the Sol system" and as a result the local authorities turn the other way over certain minor legal issues.
 

zimms

zimms
Not just Sol, the other invaded systems too. But yeah, the Federation has always gotten the short end of the stick with regards to PP. They sit in the middle, getting attacked from all sides - at least the Imperial Powers aren't as "allied" anymore as they were in PP1.0.

Since PP is really just about (player) numbers, I expect Sol will be Imperial soon. Yes, it does feel unfair for the Federation Powers, but it's always been like that and it is what it is.
 

Unknown Zombie

Unknown Zombie
zimms said:
Not just Sol, the other invaded systems too. But yeah, the Federation has always gotten the short end of the stick with regards to PP. They sit in the middle, getting attacked from all sides - at least the Imperial Powers aren't as "allied" anymore as they were in PP1.0.

Since PP is really just about (player) numbers, I expect Sol will be Imperial soon. Yes, it does feel unfair for the Federation Powers, but it's always been like that and it is what it is.
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I really hope the Yuri Grom dudes can pull off a miracle, I'd love to see him snatch control of Sol out from under Archer and Aisling... lol
 

MrAustenM

M
I feel like the reaction is going to be stronger depending on if someone actively grinded to reinforce those systems before the thargoid event. That would have to feel extremely frustrating to see all that progress wiped away instantly. Which I'm honestly surprised more powerplayers aren't empathizing with this situation and instead viewing it as a opportunity for a quick win.

I'm ALL for some player driven initiative to change the borders, since that's really what the Powerplay system is all about. But for something as monumental as winning over the Sol bubble in powerplay shouldn't feel like the devs were boosting the opposition and screwing the defense over completely.

Not to mention how is that really going to feel like a victory for any power who takes it? Knowing it took something like this to even make it possible.
 

Kira Goto

Kira Goto
From my perspective, there is nothing preventing the same from happening to Alioth and Achenar (and possibly surrounding space) at a later point, especially with some in-game/universe hints that the Thargoids will return (probably sooner rather than later) and also some out-of-universe interpretation that Frontier nuked almost all the rescue ships including the Federal one, but they have not done the same with the Allied and Imperial counterparts. Almost as if they're keeping them for future use cases.

... I also don't think they care too much about the Powerplay side in this, and might even be interested in seeing who gets back into Sol first.
 

MrAustenM

M
Kira Goto said:
From my perspective, there is nothing preventing the same from happening to Alioth and Achenar (and possibly surrounding space) at a later point
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True, I don't think the Thargoids are going anywhere and will show up again at some point. But one big difference with Alioth and Achenar, they aren't really contested space like Sol is. I don't even think anyone else is in range to effect the Alliance capital if a scenario like that unfolded again. The Imperial capital I guess could turn into a slugfest between the Imp powers for control.

Kira Goto said:
I also don't think they care too much about the Powerplay side in this, and might even be interested in seeing who gets back into Sol first.
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If that was the case, I think that's an unwise move by the devs to invest in revamping powerplay and trying to get players to engage with the new content, then to make a decision to alienate a faction just for funsies 😂

This game is still trying to get its footing back after a long period of player decline, can we just not rock the boat to much and off a segment of the players please?
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
MrAustenM said:
Not to mention how is that really going to feel like a victory for any power who takes it? Knowing it took something like this to even make it possible.
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That would imply a much bigger problem with Powerplay's balancing, I think, than who gets to control one system.

If Sol goes to a non-Federal power, then it means that a single other Power (i.e. not the sum of all four of the non-Archer Powers in range) was able to outfight Archer's recapture team on the Acquisition race.

If Sol couldn't fall any other way, that means that other Power couldn't outfight Archer's Reinforcement efforts using their Undermining efforts - not even with all other Powers operating in Sol also contributing to that Undermining so Archer has to outfight everyone else at once.

If that's true (and I think you might well be right!) it means that Undermining is massively underpowered compared with Reinforcement, which is a major problem for the long-term future of Powerplay.

Kira Goto said:
From my perspective, there is nothing preventing the same from happening to Alioth and Achenar
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An important difference here is the Powerplay map. If it happens to Alioth there are currently no non-Mahon systems of any sort within 30 LY (and only two weak Archer ones within 40 LY) so Mahon gets it back by default. If it happens to Achenar, there are only Imperial Powers within 30 LY and while there might be a bit of a race to take it back no-one is likely to take offence at it whoever wins.
 

Shadowsnog

Shadowsnog
Ian Doncaster said:
An important difference here is the Powerplay map. If it happens to Alioth there are currently no non-Mahon systems of any sort within 30 LY (and only two weak Archer ones within 40 LY) so Mahon gets it back by default. If it happens to Achenar, there are only Imperial Powers within 30 LY and while there might be a bit of a race to take it back no-one is likely to take offence at it whoever wins.
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good point.
theres also that difference that alliance/empire being under thargoid attack in their home system is a purely hypothetical scenario, while sol is hit right now.
i find that somewhat significant as hypothetical scenario, sometime in the future, somewhere in the bubble, requires significantly less work than an actual, real task of a recapture of a somewhat significant system.

however there is still a possibility that the system will just be handed back to archer on the tick...
 

Kira Goto

Kira Goto
Let’s just wait and see what happens, anyway. In the end everyone has to roll with the punches that Frontier throws out, and while I am not exactly involved in the Powerplay scene I don’t think it will ruin Archer or cause his following to completely ditch it because Sol was abandoned due to Thargoids. (Even if that may suck for them)
 

Unknown Zombie

Unknown Zombie
Why would it even suck? Who cares? Did anybody really join Archer solely because he controlled Sol? Well, maybe Isilwen did. But did anyone else???

I think that if a person believes losing Sol and having to fight to get it back is bad, maybe they're not actually interested in PowerPlay?
 

Shadowsnog

Shadowsnog
Unknown Zombie said:
I think that if a person believes losing Sol and having to fight to get it back is bad, maybe they're not actually interested in PowerPlay?
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i generally agree and tbh i dont think that in this aspect there is that much of a problem.
but with the current handling of the situation it does seem a little bit like federation is being targeted, or at least disadvantaged.

reasonably it just makes sense that a titan would attack sol and what not. and that powers will have to fight for the control again and that the homeworld of federation will now have thargoid mess in and etc etc
but there is also a pov that shows that no other power was attacked as severly as federation. every other power got their thargoid reward kits, yet for saving the federal system #1 you get anaconda kit.
and while it is most probably just a storytelling, its kind of hard to not see it as a sort of a middle finger to the feds.
especially if the system will be open for all (within reach) powers to claim after the goid state falls off (remains to be seen).

so yeah, im pretty sure that no federal operative is really afraid of having to put some elbow grease into sol. actually im pretty sure its quite the other way. many cmdrs, federal or other, are looking forward to potential 'battle for sol' 2.
it is the overall situation and the nuances that make the scenario look somewhat... askew... distasteful... unfair...

at the end of the day
does something really change one way or the other?
probably not really

except as a federally aligned cmdr i was waiting for the final (federal) reward before i commit to the christmas arx spending.
needless to say i did not buy any arx this christmas.
 
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Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Unknown Zombie said:
Why would it even suck? Who cares? Did anybody really join Archer solely because he controlled Sol? Well, maybe Isilwen did. But did anyone else???

I think that if a person believes losing Sol and having to fight to get it back is bad, maybe they're not actually interested in PowerPlay?
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Regardless of outcome they need to get mad and mess up whoever is making inroads to Sol. PP2 needs more vindictive hate.
 
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