Some feedback on Multi-Limpet Controllers

[K Olley]

Cargo space and limpets is a trade-off, but in my build I already had a 3A Collector controller where I've now put the MLC, so my cargo space hasn't actually changed.

Swopped 7A collector to 7A MLC on 2 of my T9 miners, 15 collectors + 3A Prospector, very little if any waiting time before moving onto next rock.

One occasional problem, a couple of times the refinery (4A) has overloaded when mining very high percentage metallic rocks, basically it has filled all the bins so fast it has not processed the material.

 

[Suremaker]

After installing Rescue Multi Limpet Controller, I have finally helped stranded npc with no fuel for a first time.
I put it on Cobra Mk III with which I plan to visit USS locations and try out missions I never did before like rescuing hostages.
With multilimpets it is finally possible to have a better suited ship for occasions I would normally be not bothered to prepare to.

 

[Northpin]

Add engineering and it's great!

Yeah, I don't get the restriction on engineering. If someone wants to spend time and resources on a module, let them!

Normal repair limpets are not engineering-enabled either.

While the mass is far more useful for small ships I still have to say that the mining MLC is something of a bad deal. The only thing people will use it for is collectors as it stands because the E is completely useless and the C is bad at prospecting without screwing up collector usage. To say nothing of how laser mining wants grade A prospectors for max fragment count.

Mining MLC is nice for core mining. Especially in small/medium ships.
You dont need A-rated prospectors for core mining

 

[Northpin]

The Xeno controller is the only real fail, as far as I can tell. The decontamination limpet repairs 10 more than the repair controller, so there's really zero reason for the repair one to exist at all, especially since the decontam limpet also repairs FASTER; the repair limpet repairs 1.5/s, while the decontam repairs 2/sec.

Xeno Limpet Controller(Current Stats)
Decontamination Limpet: 70 Repairs over 35 seconds(2/sec).
Repair Limpet: 60 Repairs over 90 seconds(1.5/sec).

But to be honest, I've NEVER thought it should have both repair and decontamination. That's way too much overlap, when arguably the entire purpose of these is allowing greater utility at the cost of specific strengths. I'd really like to see it swapped from Repair to Collector, making it a great multipurpose 'combat' controller, allowing you to repair yourself AND collect materials at the same time.

Xeno Limpet Controller(Proposed Stats)
Decontamination Limpet70 Repairs over 35 seconds)
Collector Limpet: Max 2
Research Limpet

Well... the fail is indeed on FDev' side in the form of... inconsistencies
3B Xeno should have: 1E decon, 1B repair and 1E research

1E decon stats: repair 30
1B repair stats: repair 60
3E decon stats: repair 70
3B repair stats: repair 180

So they gave the Decon limpets the stats from size 3 Decon limpets, but the Repair limpets have the stats from size 1 Repair limpets

So we should petition them to either:
1) fix the Xeno MLC (both 3B and 3C have the same repair rates) and bring them in line with the rest of MLC, as in reduce the repair rates for Decon to 30.
OR
2) upgrade all MLC to their equivalent same-size_same-rate stats instead of one-size-lower_same-rate stats
OR
3) change Xeno MLC to have collectors instead of repair limpets.

IMO option 1) would be the one most consistent and in-line with the rest of the MLC

 

[Mas s_1nhibited]

in addition to above.

All normal mining limpets should be buffed to match. 3s should have 3, 5s should have 5, 7s should have 7.
Mining limpets should have 1 prospector that overrides collectors - all mining limpet mlc should be A rated but with reduced range and time
engineering them would make them op

 

[DemiserofD]

Well... the fail is indeed on FDev' side in the form of... inconsistencies
3B Xeno should have: 1E decon, 1B repair and 1E research

1E decon stats: repair 30
1B repair stats: repair 60
3E decon stats: repair 70
3B repair stats: repair 180

So they gave the Decon limpets the stats from size 3 Decon limpets, but the Repair limpets have the stats from size 1 Repair limpets

So we should petition them to either:
1) fix the Xeno MLC (both 3B and 3C have the same repair rates) and bring them in line with the rest of MLC, as in reduce the repair rates for Decon to 30.
OR
2) upgrade all MLC to their equivalent same-size_same-rate stats instead of one-size-lower_same-rate stats
OR
3) change Xeno MLC to have collectors instead of repair limpets.

IMO option 1) would be the one most consistent and in-line with the rest of the MLC

I imagine the reason they didn't bother with putting the 1E decon controller is because it's virtually useless. It's so weak it cannot remove caustic stacks in any reasonable timeframe. I know, I've tried; after nicking the caustic cloud, I tried using a 1E to remove them, and I died before it happened. 3E at least has a chance of success.

My viewpoint is this: The point of multi-controllers should be utility at the cost of brute strength. But the Xeno controller has one module(research) that's useless for most people, and two modules that repair, with the only perk being decontamination, which is mainly useful for shielded builds that can't enter Silent Running as easily to burn off Caustic stacks. Only, if such a player is worried about caustic at all, why not just bring a dedicated decontamination controller? They still have no use for the other two modules.

So for all intents and purposes, you just have a worse repair limpet controller, and who's ever going to use that?

That's why I'd like to see it go to a Research, Decontamination, Collector. Because Decontamination already repairs as fast as Repair of the same class at class 3, it just repairs for a shorter duration, but for any fight where you're willing to bring along a weaker controller, that's not an issue anyway. It would make it a perfect controller for fights where you want to be able to repair, remove caustic, do research, and collect thargoid materials.

These still wouldn't be the best choice for more difficult thargoid fights, but I'd argue that was never the point of them in the first place.

 

[Brrokk]

I imagine the reason they didn't bother with putting the 1E decon controller is because it's virtually useless. It's so weak it cannot remove caustic stacks in any reasonable timeframe. I know, I've tried; after nicking the caustic cloud, I tried using a 1E to remove them, and I died before it happened. 3E at least has a chance of success.

My viewpoint is this: The point of multi-controllers should be utility at the cost of brute strength. But the Xeno controller has one module(research) that's useless for most people, and two modules that repair, with the only perk being decontamination, which is mainly useful for shielded builds that can't enter Silent Running as easily to burn off Caustic stacks. Only, if such a player is worried about caustic at all, why not just bring a dedicated decontamination controller? They still have no use for the other two modules.

So for all intents and purposes, you just have a worse repair limpet controller, and who's ever going to use that?

That's why I'd like to see it go to a Research, Decontamination, Collector. Because Decontamination already repairs as fast as Repair of the same class at class 3, it just repairs for a shorter duration, but for any fight where you're willing to bring along a weaker controller, that's not an issue anyway. It would make it a perfect controller for fights where you want to be able to repair, remove caustic, do research, and collect thargoid materials.

These still wouldn't be the best choice for more difficult thargoid fights, but I'd argue that was never the point of them in the first place.

Bah, I've just been having a good time with the Research limpets. It's great being able to launch 4 at once without taking up 4 slots in my Thargoid research ship.
Don't assume that no-one uses the things you don't happen to use.

 

[DemiserofD]

Bah, I've just been having a good time with the Research limpets. It's great being able to launch 4 at once without taking up 4 slots in my Thargoid research ship.
Don't assume that no-one uses the things you don't happen to use.

The fact they can deploy so many limpets is basically their one upside, but it's directly contrary to the stated objective of multi-controllers; namely, not replacing the alternatives. The xeno controller is basically a C5 research controller, or maybe a C7, depending on how they'd scale if they existed. Which is...I dunno. Indicative of not too much forethought, maybe? Bleh.

Either way, I'm not saying the research controller should go away, I think that's amazing. I just think it should have collectors too, so if you want to go collect thargoid materials, you can do it all in one convenient package!

Which is the whole point of multi-controllers as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Guyperson]

Alternatively, when an asteroid is depleted it should prompt the prospector to automatically detonate. That would solve 70% or more of the problem right off the bat.

Asteroids can be depleted but still have active nodes that a prospector needs to be present to target so that's probably not ideal.

They could just have the controller terminate instead of launch if you currently have a limpet targeted when you activate it. Though then you'd need to remember to de-select your prospector before launching collectors.

 

[Maolagin]

Asteroids can be depleted but still have active nodes that a prospector needs to be present to target so that's probably not ideal.

They could just have the controller terminate instead of launch if you currently have a limpet targeted when you activate it. Though then you'd need to remember to de-select your prospector before launching collectors.

My suggestion would be to just have it warn you that it will destroy the oldest limpet if you fire one with four deployed, and then you press the trigger a second time to confirm. In the common case where you're mining from your most recent prospector, that still lets you deploy three collectors, and continue redeploying safely if they expire. Yes, it will eat up your remaining collectors when you go back to prospecting, but that only really matters for high cadence laser mining, where you should really be using a separate A-rated prospector anyway.

 

[Watcher]

Just been getting back in to the game.

Happy to see multi-use controllers are a thing now but, sheesh, that weight is insane. Controllers as is didn't make sense but this just takes it to a whole new level, I'm impressed.

I still maintain that a base universal controller should be fitted to all ships, low range and duration for the limpets.
Specialised (and multi-purpose) controllers add number of active limpets, range, duration by size/class.
I'd also scrap limpets as cargo and have them as a form of ammo - controller size/class/type adjusting max capacity - the base controller would have a low capacity, perhaps 1-4 perhaps depending on ship size class.
If you want to get fancy then also have the base controllers on certain ships be biased towards a specialisation.
If not the ammo thing at least the rest...

Anyway, glad to see some changes but, as others have said, it feels a little like FD just want to be punishing for punishing sake. You can have choice that is both interesting and meaningful without being outright obstructive about people doing things. Or, for that matter, breaking reasonable in world common sense about things like weight, power draw or cost. Its this sort of unnecessary faff that has me bouncing off the game for long periods - I love the sound design, flight model and aesthetics, I appreciate the large scale universe, but I'd really like to see some consistent common sense in how things are balanced. I've been back for a few days and I'm already getting ranty...

 

[Andro]

I'd also scrap limpets as cargo and have them as a form of ammo - controller size/class/type adjusting max capacity - the base controller would have a low capacity, perhaps 1-4 perhaps depending on ship size class.

I agree, but limpets would have to be a lot smarter and more durable, and be able to be recalled for retrieval or refueling. Otherwise, mining runs will be dead.

 

[DemiserofD]

Asteroids can be depleted but still have active nodes that a prospector needs to be present to target so that's probably not ideal.

They could just have the controller terminate instead of launch if you currently have a limpet targeted when you activate it. Though then you'd need to remember to de-select your prospector before launching collectors.

Just make nodes remain visible after being prospected. Seems like a much easier solution. That way you can still do everything you need to do mining even after the prospector has been destroyed.

Maybe have them only be visible from a much closer range, to prevent lag in certain situations. Like under 500m. That's still plenty to mine them, but not enough to cause clutter.

This already happens with cores, so it's absolutely possible.

 

[Watcher]

I agree, but limpets would have to be a lot smarter and more durable, and be able to be recalled for retrieval or refueling. Otherwise, mining runs will be dead.

I'd have the dedicated controller add much more limpet-ammo capacity, basically the same as roughly the same sized cargo bay now would. This would keep the utility in the dedicated controllers while still allowing some things to be done on the fly without having to juggle which controllers you have and if you have the cargo space available for the limpets. Perhaps as an extension have a limpet bay only controller that doesn't extend functionality but only extends capacity.

That said, I think having a greater degree of control over limpets isn't a bad idea - they are essentially tiny auxiliary craft. You could do a bunch of things with this.
I reckon that could get a lot of work though, if you want to start tracking per-limpet health, fuel-level and so on and maintain that between uses. Still, be handy for things like collection - send a limpet out to get something then request it return and dock. You could put it as a comms option on the contacts panel.

Since I've not messed around with them properly yet this was something I was unclear about in some of the earlier conversation - sounds like limpets from a multi-purpose controller block utilisation of each other in different areas (so prospectors block collectors if you have too many of them out). I'm kinda surprised at that, I would have thought it would have been easier implementation wise to have them act as essentially separate controllers with separate per usage type limits. This is, again, a why would you do it like this? I mean, okay, can do it this way, requires some juggling but why add a further downside that just interrupts gameplay. Other than reverting to separate per type usage limits would be to do what I've suggested above and add a comms option to the contact panel that requests a limpet self destructs/deactivates. That isn't perfect but sounds like the simplest solution (without any idea about how this stuff works under the hood). Limpets already appear on the contacts panel and time out and deactivate or are forcefully deactivated but other limpet use, so I'd imagine the code to force them to deactivate exists and adding an option to request that ought not be that hard. Probably. Bonus points for updating information on the contacts panel to show the limpet role to make this easier.

 

[CaptKarel]

I fitted a 3C operations multi limpet controller and size 1 fuel limpet controller to my BGS Krait Mk II. I used to have a 3A collector limpet controller fitted. Now I can do any possible task with that combination while flitting around my BGS area of operations and have 4 limpets out instead of 2. Sure they are a little bit shorter ranged and has a shorter life time, but that is not a problem.

I used to fly with an interdictor all the time on my BGS ship but found I hardly ever needed it, replaced it with the fuel limpet controller.

Those missions for collecting 4 black boxes are now very easy. I can drop 4 collector limpets as I drop in, move in and once they come back, I open my cargo bay and have them all onboard before the enemies drop in. The trick is not to open the cargo bay before the limpets come back with the loot. Getting away fast is not an issue with my Mk II, it cruises at 400 and boost at about 550 every 2 seconds, very very few ships can catch that.

I can also do some liberating missions, diplomatic bags, bootleg alcohol, prisoners, etc. with this setup without changing my ship build. 1 hatch breaker and 3 collectors is ok most if the time.

Also, if I run across some poor soul that needs fuel, which does happen every now and then, I can send 1 fuel limpet over and get him on his way. Always felt bad if I could not help, I have this thing about running out of fuel, all my ships have a scoop, even if it is just a small one.

All of that for just 2 tons extra weight on the size C multi limpet controller.

Personally I think this has made it slightly better and more versatile IMO.

 

[Brrokk]

Has anyone else had a MLC apparently launching the wrong kind of limpet? It could be an issue with firegroups rather than the MLC. I found a ship asking for repairs. I launched one repair limpet. When I tried launching a second one, a hatchbreaker went off after him instead! I got a bounty for this. I'm sure I pressed the same trigger in the same firegroup both times.

 

[Ohanka]

I like how in the 35th century technology will be worse than it is in the 21st century.

Dozens of tons of computer to tell a little robot which is capable of a half dozen tasks which to perform/ Could do it now on a laptop that doesn’t weigh 5lbs.

The logic of this game doesn’t make much sense at times.

 

[NinjaClarinet]

I like how in the 35th century technology will be worse than it is in the 21st century.

Dozens of tons of computer to tell a little robot which is capable of a half dozen tasks which to perform/ Could do it now on a laptop that doesn’t weigh 5lbs.

The logic of this game doesn’t make much sense at times.

I imagine its more than code. I have a harder time imagining that a one ton drone comes with literally every tool to do every job attached to it. What I find more plausible is that the limpet controllers are large machines that fabricate the necessary tools and attachments onto the drone for the specific function. I also imagine part of the limpet's included mass is a packet of synthesis materials the controllers can utilize when setting up the drone.

Phrased another way, the Limpet Controllers are factories that produce specific drones, and the limpets we buy represent the raw materials and basic chassis that factory uses. Similar to our Fighter Bays.

 

[Neilski]

Teensy bit of a necro but it seems like a good place to ask this question: is there any place where you can find the true stats for the multi-limpet controllers? I'm specifically interested in the range for collectors from the 3C Mining unit. Have searched but found somewhat conflicting answers...
[Edit: oh for f**** sake, turns out you can only fit one multi-limpet controller to a ship... ARGH. Coriolis appears to know this but EDSY does not. And even after reading dozens of posts about the damn things, neither did I... ]

 

[GraphiteGB]

No where written down. it was just stupidly easy to see how lazy Fdev were..
Multi limpet controllers were rebuilt with their weight changes... So No EDSY does not list the range for the 2 types in mining just like it does not list the range for every type off limpet in the universal limpet cotroller...

A class 3C multi limpet controller is not brand new... Fdev just cloned other stats to them from the lower class 1 C normal item...
The distance of the Class 3 multi collector is just taken from the Class 1 C collector controller... and is 1KM...
The operations Class 3 multli limpet controller has every stat from the 1B normal limpet collector controller as it a 3B multi limpet controller...
So if you want to know the Distance and stats of the combined units you just look an original class 1 items stats as they were just cloned to the class 3 multi limpet controllers...