General / Off-Topic Some numbers and a shortage

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You don't, you really really don't have the tools to resist the government if they ever felt the need. You'd be bringing a rifle to a fight where they operate at an altitude you can't shoot to or from behind armour you can't shoot through.

Back when it was all muzzle loaders and the second amendment was added maybe.
I'm aware of law enforcement and military capabilities. I also have no plans to get in one of those boxes without a serious scrap, even if the effort is futile.

You know Bob, you don't have to reflexively disagree with every post I make just on general principles. Taking steps to insure the survival of your family and preparedness to fight for their lives is pretty basic stuff.
 
If you think that a cruise ship is an excellent place for transferal of this virus, then you are correct, but then consider that more than half of the global population now live in cities. Right now Wuhan is seriously down on some supplies, even though the rest of the planet is still somewhat functioning. If you take a simple rough model of how an epidemics' dynamics work, and assume that you are correct that it will become a pandemic, then this is pretty serious.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWXqXzAYe4E
That is the mistake that China is making.
Yes shut down a city, but keep the power on, the water running in and out and keep the supplies, being delivered. The Chinese have the 'manpower' to doing anything and so, not having reliable and secure supply lines, is just bad management.
 
I'm aware of law enforcement and military capabilities. I also have no plans to get in one of those boxes without a serious scrap, even if the effort is futile.

You know Bob, you don't have to reflexively disagree with every post I make just on general principles. Taking steps to insure the survival of your family and preparedness to fight for their lives is pretty basic stuff.

I don't disagree with everything you say Jason, I never have.

The biggest thing I disagree with about this is that you regard your own government as a threat, they don't actually care that much but people are a valuable taxable productive resource.

I think your fears a bit misplaced that's all.
 
That is the mistake that China is making.
Yes shut down a city, but keep the power on, the water running in and out and keep the supplies, being delivered. The Chinese have the 'manpower' to doing anything and so, not having reliable and secure supply lines, is just bad management.
There's no doubt that mistakes have been made, and that they will continue, and I certainly don't like the way Chinese authorities prioritise state vs individual, but I've spent quite some time studying China in recent years, and I wouldn't call their management bad. In the West we are brought up as individuals, which also leads to anyone posting selfies on "Insta", but I've seen the Chinese do some pretty clever moves if you consider the planet a giant board game. China seems to be all about keeping power, preserving the state and utilitarianism in the extreme. Objectively that is probably the best way to deal with this epidemic, and they still haven't gotten it under control.
 
There's no doubt that mistakes have been made, and that they will continue, and I certainly don't like the way Chinese authorities prioritise state vs individual, but I've spent quite some time studying China in recent years, and I wouldn't call their management bad. In the West we are brought up as individuals, which also leads to anyone posting selfies on "Insta", but I've seen the Chinese do some pretty clever moves if you consider the planet a giant board game. China seems to be all about keeping power, preserving the state and utilitarianism in the extreme. Objectively that is probably the best way to deal with this epidemic, and they still haven't gotten it under control.

If they were to be so objective, why did they supress information and penalized doctors who warned on the Coronavirus? Why did they refuse help from the CDC and WHO for a good while? Why did they condem the US for imposing a travel-ban to foreigners coming from China?

Virtually every goverment scrambles to keep its own power and to preserve the state, that is not unique of the CCP at all.
 
If you think that a cruise ship is an excellent place for transferal of this virus, then you are correct, but then consider that more than half of the global population now live in cities. Right now Wuhan is seriously down on some supplies, even though the rest of the planet is still somewhat functioning. If you take a simple rough model of how an epidemics' dynamics work, and assume that you are correct that it will become a pandemic, then this is pretty serious.

yes, and it could even be worse. i've read of cases of re-infection. actually, being immune doesn't mean immune forever, nor that you can't still spread the disease. immunity is basically a persistent infection. but on the other hand for this to be grave the spread has to be out of control (as it was in hubei), and that won't necessarily be the case in all of the world. if this is really that serious ever more drastic measures will be taken to stop the spread, first spontaneously, then forced if necessary. and passing winter we'll have a vaccine. the problem will be producing it in enough quantity. cheer up! :D
 
If they were to be so objective, why did they supress information and penalized doctors who warned on the Coronavirus? Why did they refuse help from the CDC and WHO for a good while? Why did they condem the US for imposing a travel-ban to foreigners coming from China?

Virtually every goverment scrambles to keep its own power and to preserve the state, that is not unique of the CCP at all.
I would say: That it is mostly about, 'keeping face'.
Why condemn the first doctor? Most people don't want to admit anything, that shines a bad light on themselves. Due to the top-down structure, it is not the 'little guys' place, to make such alarming statements. Even if they are ignored by line managers and to follow the correct procedures, would take too long.
Why did they refuse help? Pride. Plus, these facts have been twisted by the likes of FOX, etc..

I watched a speech, by the Chinese U K ambassador and thought it was basically frank, honest, to the point and worth listening to. However: All the western press wants to do it criticise it. The BBC's reporter could only focus on one thing, because close to the end of five minutes, he mentions the Communist party.

Sorry I can't find a BBC link to this. The Sun, is U.Ks equivelent to FOX.
 
I would say: That it is mostly about, 'keeping face'.
Why condemn the first doctor? Most people don't want to admit anything, that shines a bad light on themselves. Due to the top-down structure, it is not the 'little guys' place, to make such alarming statements. Even if they are ignored by line managers and to follow the correct procedures, would take too long.

Right, that is not utilitarian nor objective in the least bit.

Why did they refuse help? Pride.

That is also not utilitarian nor objective.

Plus, these facts have been twisted by the likes of FOX, etc..

Was I wrong in what I stated?
 
yes, and it could even be worse. i've read of cases of re-infection. actually, being immune doesn't mean immune forever, nor that you can't still spread the disease. immunity is basically a persistent infection. but on the other hand for this to be grave the spread has to be out of control (as it was in hubei), and that won't necessarily be the case in all of the world. if this is really that serious ever more drastic measures will be taken to stop the spread, first spontaneously, then forced if necessary. and passing winter we'll have a vaccine. the problem will be producing it in enough quantity. cheer up! :D
I learned to "cheer up" while modelling the global system. This is serious, but lack of sustainability is really bad.

If they were to be so objective, why did they supress information and penalized doctors who warned on the Coronavirus? Why did they refuse help from the CDC and WHO for a good while? Why did they condem the US for imposing a travel-ban to foreigners coming from China?

Virtually every goverment scrambles to keep its own power and to preserve the state, that is not unique of the CCP at all.
Because they think it's best for the Chinese state. If people start panicking, then the state will be no more. Also, the Chinese economy is highly influenced by this. Therefore they think they have an interest in keeping a lid on the information available to the public. The other day when the Chinese doctor died, people started demanding freedom of speech so fast on Chinese social networks that the censors couldn't keep up. Such a situation is quite terrifying to the Chinese government. Next up, they promised an investigation of the case.

I don't say they are acting "right", but I also know enough about ethics to know, that nobody so far has been able to come up with a solid definition of right and wrong. My own view on this is pretty similar to Jason's individuality. I've been "free" for too long. However, once in a while i play a thought experiment, when I nag about the World, where I ask myself "So if you became emperor of the planet, what would you do?". That's always somewhat sobering, because honestly I wouldn't know.
 
Right, that is not utilitarian nor objective in the least bit.



That is also not utilitarian nor objective.



Was I wrong in what I stated?
Utilitarian & China, are not found in the same sentence.

I never said that you had stated anything incorrectly. I stated that some of the press, had exaggerated (infact most of the press, will put their own spin on this story), the facts. I attempted to answer your questions, objectively.
 
Because they think it's best for the Chinese state. If people start panicking, then the state will be no more.

People are already panicking.

Also, the Chinese economy is highly influenced by this.

Yes, now that they've let it spread they are taking an even bigger hit in their economy given the closing of borders and quarantine of their citizens.

The other day when the Chinese doctor died, people started demanding freedom of speech so fast on Chinese social networks that the censors couldn't keep up. Such a situation is quite terrifying to the Chinese government. Next up, they promised an investigation of the case.

Which likely wouldn't have happened if they had not threatened him.

I don't say they are acting "right", but I also know enough about ethics to know, that nobody so far has been able to come up with a solid definition of right and wrong. My own view on this is pretty similar to Jason's individuality.

I'm not discussing right or wrong, I'm discussing their bad objective decisions that worsened the situation.

I've been "free" for too long. However, once in a while i play a thought experiment, when I nag about the World, where I ask myself "So if you became emperor of the planet, what would you do?". That's always somewhat sobering, because honestly I wouldn't know.

If I were to wake up and find myself in such situation, I'd abdicate not for benevolence but because I have better things to do, I do not like leadership roles, let alone the largest of them.
 
Utilitarian & China, are not found in the same sentence.

Correct, that is what I wanted to dispute.

I never said that you had stated anything incorrectly. I stated that some of the press, had exaggerated (infact most of the press, will put their own spin on this story), the facts. I attempted to answer your questions, objectively.

Right, I wanted to know if I had gotten something wrong as a consequence.
 
I learned to "cheer up" while modelling the global system. This is serious, but lack of sustainability is really bad.


Because they think it's best for the Chinese state. If people start panicking, then the state will be no more. Also, the Chinese economy is highly influenced by this. Therefore they think they have an interest in keeping a lid on the information available to the public. The other day when the Chinese doctor died, people started demanding freedom of speech so fast on Chinese social networks that the censors couldn't keep up. Such a situation is quite terrifying to the Chinese government. Next up, they promised an investigation of the case.

I don't say they are acting "right", but I also know enough about ethics to know, that nobody so far has been able to come up with a solid definition of right and wrong. My own view on this is pretty similar to Jason's individuality. I've been "free" for too long. However, once in a while i play a thought experiment, when I nag about the World, where I ask myself "So if you became emperor of the planet, what would you do?". That's always somewhat sobering, because honestly I wouldn't know.
If you are Emperor of the Planet, or anywhere. You would be spending most of your time, working out how to deal with those that want your job. That is the major issue with humans, greed, jealousy and, the need to oppose any authority, is in their DNA.
 
Could they bury them with lime ?
No one knows how well the virus "survives" (it's not alive), outside the host. A virus is basically a small package of RNA, whereas something like a bacteria is a living cell. The virus injects it's RNA into the host cell, which then start replicating the virus. RNA is much more fragile than DNA, being "single stranded". Therefore it will get destroyed over time. How fast depends on several factors, like humidity, temperature etc. Normally, once the host organisms dies, it also stops reproducing the virus.

Edit: (simplified), some viruses use DNA instead of RNA, but this one is a RNA virus.
 
Correct, that is what I wanted to dispute.



Right, I wanted to know if I had gotten something wrong as a consequence.
Dispute all you like. China has been a top-down state system, in one form or another, for centuries. At least they are honest about it. Following the party line, is not unique to them, is it?
 
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