Some of ou need to take a deep breath and chill

Hey all,

Just a quick reminder to address the topic, not each other. There's a reasonable argument to be had about whether now is the right time to release the game and what we as a community can do to help it along. The more opinions we all hear, the better we'll understand the issue.
 
Hmm, if Toyota started selling cars that wouldn't start, had faulty radios, windows that wouldn't stay up, etc, they would be lambasted.

There would be a recall, Toyota would fix the problem with no cost to the customer besides a little time and minor frustration... Matter of fact this happened not too long ago. If ED misses a few marks but fixes them in a timely fashion then that makes them just like every other game released in the past 10 years. Unlike Toyota though, their product doesn't randomly accelerate into a bus load of kids. No blood, no foul as far as I'm concerned.

Also, if "gamers" haven't realized by now that every game is buggy at release then they aren't real gamers. If the recent Assassins Creed waited till everything was perfect before release they'd still be in alpha. If ArcheAge waited they wouldn't have had servers down for days last week.

ED will have a better launch than a lot of recent games. If what you spent on the kickstarter/alpha/beta/merc is such a burden then you should have been wise enough to wait for the initial release and buy it after the first 2 patches are released. Either or that or realize the game will not perfect day on and have some freakin patience. Even most IT people are smart enough to not deploy a new Microsoft operating system before the first service pack for the same reason.
 
Sure our children and children's children and so on for generations could play the game, looking specifically at different systems, and not see the same one twice however I, my children, their children and so on can experience everything the game has to offer in one weekend. When you can see every single aspect of gameplay in such a miniscule amount of time and the real wow-factor the game has is a procedurally generated galaxy with 400 billion systems and nothing to do in them there's a problem. Imagine if Minecraft was an infinite world in which you could run around and look at the landscape, mine rocks from specific node sites to sell to villagers (through a text menu/spreadsheet no less) and buy better armor and weapons to fight the mobs. It would have failed without anyone caring about it one bit because doing that gets boring before long. See my point? Even a game like Skyrim can launch full of bugs and still be a success because it has enough content to keep everyone busy. Environment is only 50% of a game, the other 50% is gameplay and missing either is a death sentence. Elite simply lacks gameplay content.
I can't speak for everyone else but I know any complaining I have done has simply been because I know that the developer's future (since they're producing the game in-house) and the future of the game (which I really want to see do well) depends, like all the indie game developers do these days, on what REVIEWERS think of the game. Like it or not, that is who brings you a new player base. Nobody cares what the fanboys (and girls, we know you're out there too) think, they want to know what the reviewers think. How do you think Elite Dangerous would go over in a Zero Punctuation review in its current state? I would imagine it wouldn't be smiles and rainbows and skip to my lou my darling...
I want ED to have a future, with more and more people buying the game and playing it every day, and as featureless as it is for a title preparing to go into retail launch it simply won't have the staying power and future-proofing a game needs in the modern world of video games. It's a very competitive environment what with so many options to choose from these days and people willing to rebuild your game's entire premise with improvements based on what they feel people want. It's gone from "impress a few dozen production company execs enough to fund your project" to "impress everyone, or at least a good portion of everyone" otherwise your game will simply die a slow, cold death. I really don't want to see ED die the death it will in its current state and a bad first impression on the world will ruin it and planetary landings or whatever else you want to introduce later simply won't get the game back into the spotlight.
I understand the devs wanted to make a modern Elite experience, however, that "modern reboot" idea is simply not good enough in 2014 for anything other than a short-lived nostalgia trip for those who played the original. The core experience can be there but it must also expand. Gameplay has evolved right alongside graphics as game development has progressed through the years and we've come to expect a much higher level of detail and a more feature-rich experience than we did back in 1984. Call us spoiled brats but that's just how it is, regular people also test modern electronics by breaking them and posting the video on Youtube mostly unedited regardless of the outcome. The modern world (and the Internet especially) knows no mercy for your beloved product, it is a cold and objective critic of all things.
Regardless, they'll do what they will and the game will either get a slew of new features (rather quickly I hope) and have a chance to survive or it will recede into the annals of video gaming history like so many other titles nobody cares about and we'll move on to the developers who decided to do it right. I hope they pull a miracle out and the galaxy and existing infrastructure is enough to keep the game fresh long enough for more surface content to be developed but I doubt it will be TBH.
Good luck Frontier, you're going to need it as you push out into the veritable killing field that is a modern retail launch and the subsequent cynical review process from thousands of people at the least!
If it was me I would have pushed release back for 4 months at least. People would have complained but they're still complaining now and will continue complaining (prepare for a whole slew of complainers post-release when all the preorders get in and stuff goes boom) so who cares?
 
Also, if "gamers" haven't realized by now that every game is buggy at release then they aren't real gamers. If the recent Assassins Creed waited till everything was perfect before release they'd still be in alpha. If ArcheAge waited they wouldn't have had servers down for days last week.


This is a problem with the current development standards, but go back ten years, and releasing a buggy or bad game would have been the death of your company. The advent of internet enabled devices everywhere has made this less of an issue, with patches being available, but a buggy launch can still mar a games reputation for a long time after.

If you were a "gamer", then you wouldn't stand for getting games released in a terrible state, and you'd vote with your wallet, by not buying them. I bought in to ED expecting they would go the SC route and actually listen to the community and be willing hold off on releasing the game to make sure it was DAMN GOOD by the time it went gold.

My mistake I guess. Lesson learned.
 
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Sure our children and children's children and so on for generations could play the game, looking specifically at different systems, and not see the same one twice however I, my children, their children and so on can experience everything the game has to offer in one weekend. When you can see every single aspect of gameplay in such a miniscule amount of time and the real wow-factor the game has is a procedurally generated galaxy with 400 billion systems and nothing to do in them there's a problem. Imagine if Minecraft was an infinite world in which you could run around and look at the landscape, mine rocks from specific node sites to sell to villagers (through a text menu/spreadsheet no less) and buy better armor and weapons to fight the mobs. It would have failed without anyone caring about it one bit because doing that gets boring before long. See my point? Even a game like Skyrim can launch full of bugs and still be a success because it has enough content to keep everyone busy. Environment is only 50% of a game, the other 50% is gameplay and missing either is a death sentence. Elite simply lacks gameplay content.
I can't speak for everyone else but I know any complaining I have done has simply been because I know that the developer's future (since they're producing the game in-house) and the future of the game (which I really want to see do well) depends, like all the indie game developers do these days, on what REVIEWERS think of the game. Like it or not, that is who brings you a new player base. Nobody cares what the fanboys (and girls, we know you're out there too) think, they want to know what the reviewers think. How do you think Elite Dangerous would go over in a Zero Punctuation review in its current state? I would imagine it wouldn't be smiles and rainbows and skip to my lou my darling...
I want ED to have a future, with more and more people buying the game and playing it every day, and as featureless as it is for a title preparing to go into retail launch it simply won't have the staying power and future-proofing a game needs in the modern world of video games. It's a very competitive environment what with so many options to choose from these days and people willing to rebuild your game's entire premise with improvements based on what they feel people want. It's gone from "impress a few dozen production company execs enough to fund your project" to "impress everyone, or at least a good portion of everyone" otherwise your game will simply die a slow, cold death. I really don't want to see ED die the death it will in its current state and a bad first impression on the world will ruin it and planetary landings or whatever else you want to introduce later simply won't get the game back into the spotlight.
I understand the devs wanted to make a modern Elite experience, however, that "modern reboot" idea is simply not good enough in 2014 for anything other than a short-lived nostalgia trip for those who played the original. The core experience can be there but it must also expand. Gameplay has evolved right alongside graphics as game development has progressed through the years and we've come to expect a much higher level of detail and a more feature-rich experience than we did back in 1984. Call us spoiled brats but that's just how it is, regular people also test modern electronics by breaking them and posting the video on Youtube mostly unedited regardless of the outcome. The modern world (and the Internet especially) knows no mercy for your beloved product, it is a cold and objective critic of all things.
Regardless, they'll do what they will and the game will either get a slew of new features (rather quickly I hope) and have a chance to survive or it will recede into the annals of video gaming history like so many other titles nobody cares about and we'll move on to the developers who decided to do it right. I hope they pull a miracle out and the galaxy and existing infrastructure is enough to keep the game fresh long enough for more surface content to be developed but I doubt it will be TBH.
Good luck Frontier, you're going to need it as you push out into the veritable killing field that is a modern retail launch and the subsequent cynical review process from thousands of people at the least!
If it was me I would have pushed release back for 4 months at least. People would have complained but they're still complaining now and will continue complaining (prepare for a whole slew of complainers post-release when all the preorders get in and stuff goes boom) so who cares?


Grayman

Can I have more pictures and less words please. Not sure about everyone else. I stopped reading on the first 'n'

Is it possible to provide an an executive summary please.

--Out of fairness and just this once I will read a huge block of text----------------------------------------------------------------------------------->>>> 5 mins later

I agree with 70% of what you say. I do however think the reviewers have an attention span as short as me and may only see and recommend the WOW. That gives FD time to add more WOW
 
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Well said OP.
I think part the problem is Frontier have involved the community alot in the development with the Design Discussions and such and this has made some peeps go a bit 'I want it all and i want it NOW'

My impression is that in general it is not those who got involved early and certainly not those involved in the DDF that are making the entitled demands. Most of them really get what Elite is about and they show great understanding for the hardships of game development.
A lot of the early supporters seem to have retreated since the influx of the loud crowd or at least have tuned down their involvement with the forums. I have backed down myself for a while, because the mindless insolent demands and entitlement and complete lack of understanding of what Elite is about can be very disheartening.
 
Sorry Bob, I write as a stream of consciousness and type pretty fast so it tends to run away. If you can't be bothered to read it then I won't hold you to it. For any that feel the same, I'm guessing you're not one for novels.
Don't worry, the movie will come out in 6-12 months. Everyone who read the book will say the movie sucked and will know all the spoilers.
 
So, I played during Beta 2, RL got in the way, and I'm back in as of today. I was just having coffee..and looking at the star map.It occurred to me how completely, utterly, and beautifully MASSIVE this gameworld is. It's like that Hubble "deep field" pic, except that FD created a game where all the dots on the map are places you can fly to, and do stuff. If you just STOP for a second,let that sink in.

This game is so big, your children's children's children could play and not see it all.

it's 4 days from launch. the market is screwed up..there are bugs. disconnects. griefers rammed your pretty little ship and you lost stuff. you didn't make the profit margin you thought you would on that last run in your Asp.

allow me to play the world's smallest violin for you. boo-hoo.

This game..and, next year, Star Citizen..have revolutionized the space sim. it has changed gaming as we know it completely..and set a new, higher standard. we're here, on the ground floor, dealing with every issue every beginning ANYTHING has dealt with, whether it's a game or a "startup' company. Stuff happens, and it won't be just perfect.

but they're working on it.

They'll have some surprises for us on tuesday, no doubt. we'll get more stuff, and more stuff will be broken too. just the way it is. if you want proven, almost perfect gameplay, the guys over at blizzard have something' for ya. you know what game I mean.

But, if you can stop getting your collective panties in a bunch..and let FD do their thang..we'll have a greater gameplay experience than anyone has in the history of gaming so far. Just chill. enjoy Elite for what it is..and what it will be.

yes the game world is large but atm the populated area of space where you can land at a station onlky seems to extend abour 350-400 light years cubed from what I can see. the rest is uninhabited star and planetary systems, and if you go collecting data out on the rim you have to come back to sell it as theres no where out there to land.

ponders the meaning of expansion, future DLC probably

Enty
 
I am equating ED with another game I sort of got in on the ground floor of and that was Everquest. Was it pretty way back when, nope. Was it fun? Well... we told ourselves it was as we sit and camped spawns for hours on end... I see ED as a concept that is growing into fruition. Maybe it is a little wishful thinking on my part, I hope not. Its going to have some things I don't want, PvP, sorry I am just not a fan of PvP and have seen many games ruined by the PvP griefer crowd. I really do think slow and steady will win the race with this game implementing features making sure the features work then moving on to the next set of features. I know I am patient because I can see the potential of this game and I honestly haven't been this excited about a game in a very, very long time.

A little off-topic.. why is it always panties in a bunch? why isn't it... let's say jock strap in a bind.. or perhaps cup-in-a-cinch? those sound to me like they would be more painful for you guys than panties in a twist for us would be although honestly having them in a twist is a touch uncomfortable it isn't that difficult to rectify...
 
So let's see if I can get this right.

During beta people weren't supposed to complain because it was still undergoing testing, which is fair, so instead they were supposed to submit bug reports, which they did, some of which got serviced, others got closed silently.

During gamma people weren't supposed to complain because "It wasn't finished" despite gamma being a feature freeze and the final polish being applied before release.

And now it's release people aren't supposed to complain because no game is ever released in a "finished" state these days.

What kind of logic are people working on to get to this point, I'm genuinely curious, because under those conditions, people are never supposed to complain, ever.

Look, there's -always- an excuse people will wheel out as to why things aren't stable or bug free, and not being funny, but most of them don't hold water, in Elite's case, some of them *Really* don't hold water. They've had the advantage of people extensively testing the technology involved and therefore should -know- precisely what to expect. These kinds of things should have been long ironed out by now, client issues on systems with bizarro configurations I would expect to see crop up, but basic backend functionality and their server tech working well? That should be nailed down good and proper by this point.
 
So let's see if I can get this right.

During beta people weren't supposed to complain because it was still undergoing testing, which is fair, so instead they were supposed to submit bug reports, which they did, some of which got serviced, others got closed silently.

During gamma people weren't supposed to complain because "It wasn't finished" despite gamma being a feature freeze and the final polish being applied before release.

And now it's release people aren't supposed to complain because no game is ever released in a "finished" state these days.

What kind of logic are people working on to get to this point, I'm genuinely curious, because under those conditions, people are never supposed to complain, ever.

Look, there's -always- an excuse people will wheel out as to why things aren't stable or bug free, and not being funny, but most of them don't hold water, in Elite's case, some of them *Really* don't hold water. They've had the advantage of people extensively testing the technology involved and therefore should -know- precisely what to expect. These kinds of things should have been long ironed out by now, client issues on systems with bizarro configurations I would expect to see crop up, but basic backend functionality and their server tech working well? That should be nailed down good and proper by this point.
Shh. Bow down and worship FD like everyone else. This game is, was and always will be perfect! No changes are needed, but if they do make a change, it is needed! They can do no wrong!
 
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