Some suggestions to make the terrain and path tools less...obtuse

[dillrellis]

So right now, as I am sure most of us are painfully aware (or maybe it's just me), placing down paths on anything but flat and level terrain is a huge pain in the butt. On top of this, paths seem to lock any terrain that is remotely in the vicinity of said path, making it so that any changes to the terrain requires deleting the path, tweaking the terrain and, if the stars align, replacing the path. The same goes for tracked rides and roller coasters, but I am most annoyed by the paths. So, here are my suggested improvements:

• ALLOW PATHS TO AUTO-TUNNEL! Seriously, why isn't this already implemented?
• Give us an "Ignore Terrain" toggle. I want to be able to build a path without it trying to snap to the nearest terrain it can find. This would also make starting bridges off of cliffs much easier.
• Give us a "Raise Terrain To Path" option or something similar. I would like to build a path up the side of a mountain without spending hours fiddling with the terrain.
• A nice workaround to the previous item, and a good improvement to the game in general, is to allow terrain to get right next to paths, rides, and scenery. I don't know if it's a collision box issue or what, but there shouldn't be a 10 foot gap between the terrain and whatever it is I'm trying to surround with terrain.

Right now, I would be perfectly fine if they just added this stuff to paths. Having said that, I would LOOOVE it if tracked rides could have the last three features as well. Also, if anyone can think of some other way to make path-building (and building in general) in hilly terrain less tedious, feel free to add it to the list.

 

[NiennaNeryam]

• ALLOW PATHS TO AUTO-TUNNEL! Seriously, why isn't this already implemented?
• Give us an "Ignore Terrain" toggle. I want to be able to build a path without it trying to snap to the nearest terrain it can find. This would also make starting bridges off of cliffs much easier.
• Give us a "Raise Terrain To Path" option or something similar. I would like to build a path up the side of a mountain without spending hours fiddling with the terrain.
• A nice workaround to the previous item, and a good improvement to the game in general, is to allow terrain to get right next to paths, rides, and scenery. I don't know if it's a collision box issue or what, but there shouldn't be a 10 foot gap between the terrain and whatever it is I'm trying to surround with terrain.

I cannot stress enough how much I want this. I have been desperately trying to build a simple path up a flattened to surface part of terrain and I was so unsuccesful I settled for having a gap all around the path which frustrates me to bits. I've seen paths being laid across the most messed up terrain bits ever but simply making it go up a slope is impossible..

 

[breezerHOG1]

I want a square shaped terrain tool with the ability to use a snap-to-grid feature

Also a click + drag feature for walls

 

[dillrellis]

To be honest, creaper, I am glad that we have FINALLY moved away from the grid based system that has been a part of the genre since RCT1 in 1999. The grid system was great for people who just casually played the game, but for people like me, it got old REAL fast. What I always wanted in the roller coaster tycoon series was a system that was a cross between the NoLimits 1/2 editor and the RCT management and park building features. In my mind, Frontier has nailed what I have wanted the roller coaster tycoon games to be for so long. I'm not saying the game doesn't need improvement (I'm actually taking a break from my alpine themed park until I can use the terrain tools without swearing at my screen), but I would hate to see them revert to a building system over a decade and a half old after all the progress that has been made so far.

TL;DR: The grid system for building is over a decade and a half old, and I would rather see the current tools improved and streamlined than revert to what made me stop playing the original RCT games.

 

[breezerHOG1]

The grid system was great for people who just casually played the game

I never asked to remove the current system, it was a suggested option for ^that^ exact reason. Even experienced players have agreed this would be helpful in many of the other threads about this feature [wink] No reason the game has to be as time consuming as it is in many ways, especially with certain paths not lining up with terrain just right

Give us a "Raise Terrain To Path" option or something similar. I would like to build a path up the side of a mountain without spending hours fiddling with the terrain.

thats what I was saying!

 

[RubberKerfuffle]

A big +1 for auto-tunneling for paths and a raise terrain to path option. Slightly off topic but I do feel the latter is something that's needed on the Connie Express and Iron Horse as well, so that when the track is raised, the terrain can act as an alternative supporting structure.

 

[3pmusic]

Auto Tunneling would be nice, but I enjoy the challenge of a real life scenario and sculpting my terrain around my pathways.

A snap to (like trash cans and benches) feature that will Auto populate a pre determined even spacing via slider or shortcut key when clicking path objects. I.e. hold "s" left click a path curb with the object you want to place. You can then adjust via mousewheel or slider how spaced out you want your objects. Specifically lights and benches.

Also, for when choosing to place handrails on ground level a sub menu with different hand rail/fence types should present itself you could also perhaps select which side of the path you want your fence/handrails.

 

[dillrellis]

I never asked to remove the current system, it was a suggested option for ^that^ exact reason. Even experienced players have agreed this would be helpful in many of the other threads about this feature [wink] No reason the game has to be as time consuming as it is in many ways, especially with certain paths not lining up with terrain just right


thats what I was saying!

I guess I misunderstood you then. I definitely agree that there should be easier terrain tools, the problem is that the game currently uses voxel based terrain, and I'm not sure how easy it would be to adapt the current system to work on a grid. Then again, I don't have access to the game's code, and I have no idea what the terrain engine looks like. [wink]

 

[breezerHOG1]

I'm not sure how easy it would be to adapt the current system to work on a grid

there is already a method for making squares by using walls as the terrain forms around them, so the system can easily handle it. It should be a standard feature and not require a special work around like using walls to form a straight line or 90 degree angle

 

[dillrellis]

there is already a method for making squares by using walls as the terrain forms around them, so the system can easily handle it. It should be a standard feature and not require a special work around like using walls to form a straight line or 90 degree angle

The engine doesn't see the terrain that way though. All people are doing when they do that is using scenery pieces as a mold. The terrain engine just sees that the scenery is in the way, and says, "Okay, there's some scenery in the way, don't let the terrain rise any higher." I would much rather see them improve the current system of terrain tools than create an entirely secondary system. As a programmer, I would never want to write a piece of software and say, "Well, this isn't very easy to use for some people, so let's create an entirely different interface for those people." Instead, I would rather look at the current interface and say, "How can I make this more intuitive and easier to use?" The dev team has a great thing going with the current terrain tools, it just needs more...refinement.

 

[breezerHOG1]

Like I said before, even experienced players have agreed a square terrain tool would be beneficial in many situations, and adding a grid option that works the same as buildings doesnt seem like making an entirely new way to play the game, its adding an additional feature to make things more intuitive and easier, many people have asked for help when aligning many things including paths

 

[dillrellis]

Like I said before, even experienced players have agreed a square terrain tool would be beneficial in many situations, and adding a grid option that works the same as buildings doesnt seem like making an entirely new way to play the game, its adding an additional feature to make things more intuitive and easier, many people have asked for help when aligning many things including paths

Yes, the grid system is there for buildings. But just because it is there for buildings does not mean that they can just copy that code to anything and make it grid based. Too many people fall into the trap of thinking that programming is as simple as, "Well, this thing here does something similar, so why can't you just use that to make this thing work that way?" I'm also not saying that it is not hard to align things like scenery and rides. But it makes me angry seeing people get stuck on thinking that a grid system is the only way to fix things. Just because YOU thought of a way to fix something does not mean it is the BEST and ONLY way to fix something. Again, just because the current building system sucks in some areas does NOT in ANY WAY mean that we need to jump straight to locking everything into a grid, it would be much better to see if we can make the current system better before we get to that point. The alignment issue, for example, could be fixed by allowing you to "combine" grids, or by telling the game, "See this building? I want to make it's grid relative to this other building's grid." What you're suggesting (or at least the way I'm interpreting your suggestion) is that we make the game into RCT3, but with slightly better graphics. What would be the point of gimping the game that much just to make the building system slightly easier?

 

[breezerHOG1]

it makes me angry seeing people get stuck on thinking that a grid system is the only way to fix things. Just because YOU thought of a way to fix something does not mean it is the BEST and ONLY way to fix something. Again, just because the current building system sucks in some areas does NOT in ANY WAY mean that we need to jump straight to locking everything into a grid, it would be much better to see if we can make the current system better before we get to that point.

I only keep responding and repeating my original point cuz your walls of text are funny. see the word I underlined? thats where you are taking what I said out of context

What you're suggesting (or at least the way I'm interpreting your suggestion) is that we make the game into RCT3, but with slightly better graphics. What would be the point of gimping the game that much just to make the building system slightly easier?

the only thing PC has improved over RCT3 is the graphics. Nothing else has really been all that changed. The voxel terrain is great for people who are talented or patient at using it, but it is the biggest obstacle to over come that many "casual" players will not enjoy. Even in RCT the terrain was not something everybody cared to use.

Its amazing to see what people can create, but your view of "newbs should not be allowed to have fun cuz it would ruin it for me" is the exact reason why PC isn't more popular. Sim games are for the casual market, but PC is heavily geared toward a different market, a more "artistic" market, which is great and all but theres no reason why we cant have both. Maybe if you read more of the forums you will see more of the complaints the game has received have to do with the "casual" players

The whole point here is to make the game accessible to everyone, and I keep repeating myself that I am suggesting an OPTIONAL feature and NOT a locked permanent feature that removes other features.

 

[dillrellis]

I only keep responding and repeating my original point cuz your walls of text are funny. see the word I underlined? thats where you are taking what I said out of context

Okay then, what do you mean when you say "square terrain tool"? All I see in my head is the RCT3 style of terrain editing, which managed to make me even more frustrated than the PC terrain editor. Really, all I want them to change is to get rid of the huge collision boxes that prevent anything within ten feet of a path/ride from being modified. That and what @kerfuffle said would be a great addition too.

Also, I don't object to making the game more accessible to the masses, but I have seen tons of games that took the easy route of removing the features that were "hard" instead of attempting to improve them, and I would hate to see PC make the same mistake after it has come so far.

 

[breezerHOG1]

what do you mean when you say "square terrain tool"?

what is so complicated to understand? We already discussed the possibility of creating a cube by molding it with walls.

Why cant there be an OPTION to switch the terrain tool from a circle to a square so that when we raise a pillar instead of it being a round cylinder, it would be a cube or rectangle. Then from there, you could add another OPTION to add a grid (which could be turned off) and this grid would be able to be angled like buildings so it wouldnt have to be set to a specific angle. AND Then you could add another OPTION to add a snap-to-angle feature so that when you raise terrain to a certain angle it will automatically align with paths. Seems like these things would have been kind of basic

I realize things are not so easy to program, but a grid for terrain should not be that big of a deal. And a square shaped terrain tool that creates flat sides instead of round ones is something that also doesnt seem impossible. Like I said these things have been requested quite a lot

 

[dillrellis]

Ah, so I did completely misunderstand your post. I think that what we both want is a way to build a path, ride, or whatever, and then have an option to use the terrain as "supports". The root of the problem with the current system is that everything has these MASSIVE hitboxes that don't allow any terrain or scenery to be built nearby. If they could remove or at least downsize the hitboxes (especially on paths), it would make path building much better. Also, I would definitely welcome more brush shapes for the terrain editor. Also, I edited my previous comment after I had more time to read your previous comment.