Some thoughts on the whole "PVE mode", and possible solution.

[biohazard15]

Currently, it is very difficult to please everyone, but this in the end is the only point.

This review is just my point of view.

First FD should block mode "closed group" for the game. Leave only the solo mode and open mode. Solo for training and after training to go to the open and ready mode.
Ah, but what you do not like pvp? For these, they should consider at least learn evasive maneuvers, or at least maneuvers to avoid being interdiction.

Second: FD should reconsider the strength and health of the ships by class. Consider an exponential resistance to higher levels of ship and its class of weapons opening certain barrier between the largest and smallest ship levels. Thus larger class of ships would be much more difficult to beat for smaller class ships, opening the flight time to major unprepared ships that are attacked by smaller ships. (Not consider this review as ship unbeatable, ok). This would cause the "griefer" needed a larger ship with bigger weapons to beat a same class pilot, enforcing the cost benefit of each ship.

Power plant. Here comes a key point that should be considered, especially for when you can walk around the ship. Shoot directly into the power plant should not blow up the ship, but disable the ship causing that it drifting and pointless until the pilot out of your chair and make necessary repairs, where mechanical equipment improve the repair speed. Thus the "griefer" would still have to shoot again in the hull of the ship if you want to destroy it or, in updating multi crew, invade the ship to steal or kill the pilot.

And finally. My vote is yes for a pve key. But this must be only to consider that a "griefer" to attack a player with the connected pve flag is considered directly as criminal, attracting the attention of local security. The player you wish to connect to pve flag should not have any reward for his head. And pve flag can not be linked exclusively in territory enemy, such as an imperial territory in the federation.


This, after all, would not prevent the "griefer" to kill the players, but become harder to do, and often more interesting for competent pilots who wish to make. And it would not be unfair to pve players, because they would have support of the local security and greater resistance to be able to withstand attacks "griefer" SideWinder. And only persistent hunters would program one cat and mouse in order to follow and take down your target. And the "griefer" would be penalized by having to have expensive ships as well as any other player, and having to risk him in combat paying for their repurchase, if necessary. But they still would get with good skills, hitting class 4 ships of inexperienced players with class 3 ships. Or even in group 2 class ships.
And considering the enemy alliances, there would still be free pvp areas for all to enjoy.

If player do not like PVP and do not like to take part in it, he or she would go Solo if there is no viable alternative (like Mobius). At least I would do it. Nothing can bring me back to Open.
Please understand that there are TWO aspects of player-versus-player interaction in ED: the social one and the combat one.
The first we love, and many of us joned Mobius exactly for that instead of going Solo - friendly interactions between players.
The second one... well... Some of us like it, and some of us (including yours truly) hate it. There is one point: all of us do not want it while playing in Mobius.
Advices like "learn maneuvers", "git gud" and others don't and won't help bring people to Open.

 

[Howard o Pato]

If player do not like PVP and do not like to take part in it, he or she would go Solo if there is no viable alternative (like Mobius). At least I would do it. Nothing can bring me back to Open.
Please understand that there are TWO aspects of player-versus-player interaction in ED: the social one and the combat one.
The first we love, and many of us joned Mobius exactly for that instead of going Solo - friendly interactions between players.
The second one... well... Some of us like it, and some of us (including yours truly) hate it. There is one point: all of us do not want it while playing in Mobius.
Advices like "learn maneuvers", "git gud" and others don't and won't help bring people to Open.

Not like PVP does not mean that you should not play games that have PVP as a base.

The player will not soil forever because he seeks interaction. And groups like Mobius take the vitality of the game. And nothing can bring them back to the open mode.

Social should never be left aside but encouraged but closed groups only segregate players of all interaction that the game has to offer.
I always played in the open and I am not a "griefer" I have a group of friends and always play together, we are not pirates, we do missions or just fly around telling our stories because it's fun. But we do not reject players who attack us, often die, but it's fun yes.

I know you have groups who hate pvp, so pile up like cattle in a particular pasture, afraid of being killed. I'm not saying they just go die. I'm saying that FD should give the right of the "cost benefit", give more resistance to larger vessels, and means of survival to those who know to run. Because all this is already in the game. Only recalculate the base and damage resistance. There are so many evasive maneuvers learned in open territory that players in a particular pasture have no idea what they can do .
Gather everyone around a flag and see what they can do. This is interaction! This is what gives life to a game!

Thank so much that could have read my ideas rather than just considering a more acidic comment I made.
I just said because I really think learning to do is the key point to do what you want to do ...

 

[KevinMillican]

It's a bit similar to my PvP Simulator mode, but implemented in specific groups.
I voted Like, but I still prefer my concept.

 

[biohazard15]

Not like PVP does not mean that you should not play games that have PVP as a base.

The player will not soil forever because he seeks interaction. And groups like Mobius take the vitality of the game. And nothing can bring them back to the open mode.

Social should never be left aside but encouraged but closed groups only segregate players of all interaction that the game has to offer.
I always played in the open and I am not a "griefer" I have a group of friends and always play together, we are not pirates, we do missions or just fly around telling our stories because it's fun. But we do not reject players who attack us, often die, but it's fun yes.

I know you have groups who hate pvp, so pile up like cattle in a particular pasture, afraid of being killed. I'm not saying they just go die. I'm saying that FD should give the right of the "cost benefit", give more resistance to larger vessels, and means of survival to those who know to run. Because all this is already in the game. Only recalculate the base and damage resistance. There are so many evasive maneuvers learned in open territory that players in a particular pasture have no idea what they can do .
Gather everyone around a flag and see what they can do. This is interaction! This is what gives life to a game!

Thank so much that could have read my ideas rather than just considering a more acidic comment I made.
I just said because I really think learning to do is the key point to do what you want to do ...

The problem is, ED is a PVE-based game. The only thing where PVP can bring you something is probably Powerplay - if you attack and kill the player from the opposing power. Aside from that? Nothing. Killing NPC Anaconda in HazRES could give you 200K. Killing wanted player would give you a quarter of that - if the said player is a serial offender who never cared about removing his bounty via suicide by station. And good luck finding such a player.
Killing another palyer "just for the challenge"? Are you sure that the said player wants that challenge?
Killing just because you can? I think you would agree that this is the very definition of griefing.
'
Learning to avoid, learning to evade, learning to do... Well, many of those who play in Mobius have indeed learned to avoid. They just left Open. Sadly, griefers pursued them. And I can't agree with you on "groups like Mobius take the vitality of the game". They just take the potential targets from griefers. You cannot blame us or our group for this.

 

[Howard o Pato]

then you want me to simply agree that FD must release the cheating mode for players who do not like to take shots to use the "God mode"?


ok, I understand your point of view and my vote is NO

kill with consequences, YES

 

[biohazard15]

then you want me to simply agree that FD must release the cheating mode for players who do not like to take shots to use the "God mode"?


ok, I understand your point of view and my vote is NO

Please read section IV. This proposal has NOTHING to do with "god mode" or any cheats. It does NOT affect Open, Solo or other groups. It simply prevents player from inflicting damage to another player, and this condition apply only for a private group and only if admins of said group chose to enable it. Basically, you agree to this rule when you apply for membership in that group. If you don't like this rule, do not apply for that group.

 

[excalibus]

Not like PVP does not mean that you should not play games that have PVP as a base.

The player will not soil forever because he seeks interaction. And groups like Mobius take the vitality of the game. And nothing can bring them back to the open mode.

Social should never be left aside but encouraged but closed groups only segregate players of all interaction that the game has to offer.
I always played in the open and I am not a "griefer" I have a group of friends and always play together, we are not pirates, we do missions or just fly around telling our stories because it's fun. But we do not reject players who attack us, often die, but it's fun yes.

I know you have groups who hate pvp, so pile up like cattle in a particular pasture, afraid of being killed. I'm not saying they just go die. I'm saying that FD should give the right of the "cost benefit", give more resistance to larger vessels, and means of survival to those who know to run. Because all this is already in the game. Only recalculate the base and damage resistance. There are so many evasive maneuvers learned in open territory that players in a particular pasture have no idea what they can do .
Gather everyone around a flag and see what they can do. This is interaction! This is what gives life to a game!

Thank so much that could have read my ideas rather than just considering a more acidic comment I made.
I just said because I really think learning to do is the key point to do what you want to do ...

ED's base is PVE, with (depending on mode) the possibility of PVP... So your arguement is flawed that this is a PVP based game... and if that is flawed then your whole arguement for removing private groups and for non PVP people to not play ED is flawed... Please respect the actual fact that there are people in the game who brought the game and where beta backers on the premise that it was not a PVP based game... and that if they wanted to play PVE they could choose to do so...

You do understand that there are some people for whom ANY PVP can cause some serious personal issues ??? Yes there are players like that in ED...

hmmmm

I voted yes for this, but would prefer an OPEN PVE only mode myself, like the other 1000 or so people who voted on a poll put forward after the last incursion into mobius asking for an open PVE mode on the login screen...

 

[Howard o Pato]

Please read section IV. This proposal has NOTHING to do with "god mode" or any cheats. It does NOT affect Open, Solo or other groups. It simply prevents player from inflicting damage to another player, and this condition apply only for a private group and only if admins of said group chose to enable it. Basically, you agree to this rule when you apply for membership in that group. If you don't like this rule, do not apply for that group.

Yes, I read it. and that it was possible, these players should not have the right to influence the game world in any way, nor the trade can be influenciad nor powerplay and even small factions. your actions within the game should not be counted for this purpose.
because they could not be killed, and this is fraud


if you can agree with this point, yes, I agree to be implemented in a closed group that can not affect the sternum world.

 

[biohazard15]

Yes, I read it. and that it was possible, these players should not have the right to influence the game world in any way, nor the trade can be influenciad nor powerplay and even small factions. your actions within the game should not be counted for this purpose.
because they could not be killed, and this is fraud


if you can agree with this point, yes, I agree to be implemented in a closed group that can not affect the sternum world.

Solo players cannot be killed by other players. And I guess that there are many more Solo players than Mobius members. Solo players also influence the game world. Ban Solo, then?
'
They cannot be killed by other players. They can be killed by NPCs. How exactly this differ from the current Mobius rules?

 

[Howard o Pato]

Please read my first post, I dont said that the game is based on pvp.
only showed a simple way of "action and consequence" of easy application within the game


I really understand the fragility of pve and pvp that should be desincorajado, but not prohibited.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yes, I read it. and that it was possible, these players should not have the right to influence the game world in any way, nor the trade can be influenciad nor powerplay and even small factions. your actions within the game should not be counted for this purpose.
because they could not be killed, and this is fraud

.... but they do - from the same FAQ I posted earlier, Frontier's philosophy for the game includes the ability for each and every player, regardless of game modes, to affect and experience the same single shared galaxy state:

FAQ- Elite: Dangerous
​

How will single player work? Will I need to connect to a server to play?

The galaxy for Elite: Dangerous is a shared universe maintained by a central server. All of the meta data for the galaxy is shared between players. This includes the galaxy itself as well as transient information like economies. The aim here is that a player's actions will influence the development of the galaxy, without necessarily having to play multiplayer.


The other important aspect for us is that we can seed the galaxy with events, often these events will be triggered by player actions. With a living breathing galaxy players can discover new and interesting things long after they have started playing.​

 

[KevinMillican]

Yes, I read it. and that it was possible, these players should not have the right to influence the game world in any way, nor the trade can be influenciad nor powerplay and even small factions. your actions within the game should not be counted for this purpose.
because they could not be killed, and this is fraud


if you can agree with this point, yes, I agree to be implemented in a closed group that can not affect the sternum world.

I think you are off-topic here; OP is just talking about a way of enforcing existing group rules. It doesn't change anything about the existing PP conundrum of Open vs. other modes

 

[biohazard15]

.... but they do - from the same FAQ I posted earlier, Frontier's philosophy for the game includes the ability for each and every player, regardless of game modes, to affect and experience the same single shared galaxy state:

Exactly what I've been saying. Every player is able to influence the game world. The PVE flag I've proposed does not break that feature. It is designed only to enforce "no PVP" rule in Private Group. Nothing more, nothing less.
Of course, some creative players would probably find another uses for it... but it would stay in their group and would not affect Solo, Open and other groups.

 

[Howard o Pato]

.... and KevinMillican

for this reason they should not be invincible

 

[Robert Maynard]

for this reason they should not be invincible

No-one is invincible. Stations can destroy any player, as can the docking computer! (not to mention NPCs)

What is being proposed is a method of formalising the rules of a Private Group in-game (as there are several players who like to point out that PvP within a PvE Private Group is not against the rules of the game....).

These players will likely continue to play in Private Groups - whether or not a PvE rule-set is available.

 

[biohazard15]

for this reason they should not be invincible

They would not be invincible. They won't get any damage from players who want to kill them. And since attacking another player is not allowed in Mobius (except CZs), there is absolutely no problem.
...unless, of course, you're a griefer who wnat to infiltrate the said group and "have some fun".

 

[excalibus]

for this reason they should not be invincible

based on what I was able to follow of your arguement....

No one is 'invincible' as robert has so eloquently pointed out but also just so you realise there is something else you need to remember...

The game is split across multiple platforms and some platforms cannot even interact with each other and never probably will, but all platforms affect the same BGS and so affect the same galaxy... you will never be able to PVP with those players on Xbone from your PC / MAC client for example...

A PVE flag for group owners is a first step towards proper group setup tools IMHO. and allows game mechanic enforecement of the group rules

Personally I would love to see a multitude of checkboxes and radio button selections for setting group rules up for various aspects of the player interaction side of the game....

 

[racer1]

I would really rather FD focused on bug fixing than adding a new PvE mechanic.

I believe it would not be as easy to add as you think.

I have nothing against the idea I'd just rather FD focused their efforts elsewhere.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I would really rather FD focused on bug fixing than adding a new PvE mechanic.

I believe it would not be as easy to add as you think.

I have nothing against the idea I'd just rather FD focused their efforts elsewhere.

One very quick win would be for every attempted interdiction on a player to fail and the interdictor drop to normal space every time - I doubt that that would take very much effort....

 

[biohazard15]

One very quick win would be for every attempted interdiction on a player to fail and the interdictor drop to normal space every time - I doubt that that would take very much effort....

As you've mentioned that... Players-versus-player interdictions also can be disabled - by PVE flag or by special flag. If player tries to interdict another player, all he gets is instant "Interdiction failed" message. That way, players would be safe from repeated attempts to interdict them. Not that it means something if PVE flag disables any PVP damage...