Someone had to ask: Will there be a wipe ;)
- Thread starter Ryder35
- Start date
Ok from a different perspective then.
What about all those console gamers that have bought the game and are currently playing it. Most of them have likely not come onto the forums because they just wanna play.
Now fast forward however long and they log in one day to find all there stuff gone, because not once has the actual game they are playing mentioned the fact that a wipe is even being considered. What would the devs say to them? "oh sorry all that time and effort you put in is gone because we decided to finally 'launch' the game" trust me that would damage this games rep severely. My friends weren't even aware there's talk of a wipe till yesterday now none of them are playing cause "what's the point?"
All I'm saying is we need either a yes no answer, or a clear indication of what's happening and when the games being 'released'
What about all those console gamers that have bought the game and are currently playing it. Most of them have likely not come onto the forums because they just wanna play.
Now fast forward however long and they log in one day to find all there stuff gone, because not once has the actual game they are playing mentioned the fact that a wipe is even being considered. What would the devs say to them? "oh sorry all that time and effort you put in is gone because we decided to finally 'launch' the game" trust me that would damage this games rep severely. My friends weren't even aware there's talk of a wipe till yesterday now none of them are playing cause "what's the point?"
All I'm saying is we need either a yes no answer, or a clear indication of what's happening and when the games being 'released'
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I agree with this.
I bought the game having no clue it would be reset, and only after checking on Reddit for some help with the game did I see someone mention a wipe of the data. It's annoying because players will be building up money/ranks and then have them wiped. Whilst I understand the reasoning for this, it would be better if people knew that this is a possibility BEFORE buying the game. There will be a good number of players who don't check forums regularly and have no clue this might happen on or before release.
Hey, I'm not saying it's right. I played like a kitten in Gamma, only to find out there was NOT a wipe. That meant that all new players at launch were 4 weeks behind me, but my meowy playstyle meant I was only about 300K to the good, mostly as upgrade to my Freagle, plus a bit of rep and rank. The issue is that we'll have 3 tiers of players at that point:
PC/Mac, all of whom started off Gamma or later in the current galaxy with 1000Cr and their Sidewinder
Xbox Preview, all of whom started off in the beta "reset" galaxy with 100,000Cr
Xbox Final, all of whom should start off in the main galaxy with 1000Cr
Naming and exploration/PP issues aside (the current XB1 galaxy is very unexplored, and PP is two weeks behind the "real" ED galaxy, and player names are universally GamerTags as far as I know?), moving people from the Preview into the main galaxy with all of their assets just doesn't seem workable. There are at least two cash exploits in the XB beta from what I've heard, and I can make so much money from "First Discovered by" in a galaxy with only a few thousand players compared to the 500,000 players in the main galaxy.
I'm not arguing that I want it to happen, 'cause I'd love to take my Adder into the main game with its 250,000Cr of upgrades (or whatever I have in a few months time), but I can't see how FDev can allow it to happen because of "all of the above". It's a quirky preview game to test the principle of ED on XB1.
Anyway, now that the dev teams E3 tan is fading/getting washed away, they'll probably start to talk about things. Newsletter on Friday as usual. W00000t!
PC/Mac, all of whom started off Gamma or later in the current galaxy with 1000Cr and their Sidewinder
Xbox Preview, all of whom started off in the beta "reset" galaxy with 100,000Cr
Xbox Final, all of whom should start off in the main galaxy with 1000Cr
Naming and exploration/PP issues aside (the current XB1 galaxy is very unexplored, and PP is two weeks behind the "real" ED galaxy, and player names are universally GamerTags as far as I know?), moving people from the Preview into the main galaxy with all of their assets just doesn't seem workable. There are at least two cash exploits in the XB beta from what I've heard, and I can make so much money from "First Discovered by" in a galaxy with only a few thousand players compared to the 500,000 players in the main galaxy.
I'm not arguing that I want it to happen, 'cause I'd love to take my Adder into the main game with its 250,000Cr of upgrades (or whatever I have in a few months time), but I can't see how FDev can allow it to happen because of "all of the above". It's a quirky preview game to test the principle of ED on XB1.
Anyway, now that the dev teams E3 tan is fading/getting washed away, they'll probably start to talk about things. Newsletter on Friday as usual. W00000t!
What the above poster said.
I don't mind if at the end they'll wipe everything but they have to tell us now. I've already invested a lot of hours but, if after 2-3 months of gaming I'll find my account erased, for sure I won't restart, at least not in the next months.
Then, of course, I've already paid for the game but this could influence my future purchases with Frontier software.
WELCOME TO BETA TESTING 101!
Getting your progress wiped once the program ends is the norm. It ALWAYS has been. Even more common is to have it wiped over and over as they make changes to the builds that force save file formats to be updated, thus rendering your current one null and void.
This is my first PUBLIC beta test. I have been doing this professionally for most of my adult life in closed internal test programs, and I can count the number of games I have tested where the developers actually allowed us to keep our progress. This out of dozens upon dozens of games I have Alpha and Beta tested starting way back with Atari coin ops where of course, you never had any progress to get wiped anyway! Most of us kids couldn't afford to buy one of those arcade boxes either, so it really didn't matter to us! lol!
But later when I started working on console games, it was just understood that once we were done with the job, any progress we made was going bye bye.
And considering the somewhat "Sorry" state Elite appears to be in, at least based on this XB1 build, I wouldn't be surprised if there are big enough changes to the file management system that we get our progress wiped a few times between now and the final release.
At least don't be surprised if that happens.
Based on what I was told... We are supposed to be here to break the game and report how we broke it. Not to get a head start on Joe Sixpack who won't know what Elite Dangerous is until he reads the review in IGN.
I am treating this just like any of my other "jobs". But I must say, this game is growing on me more than I ever expected. Just hope they can get the frame rates up to at least a locked 30fps. Otherwise, Elite is going to bomb on console in terms of unit sales. Mark my words.
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WELCOME TO BETA TESTING 101!
Getting your progress wiped once the program ends is the norm. It ALWAYS has been. This is my first PUBLIC beta test. I have been doing this professionally for most of my adult life, and I can count the number of games I have tested where the developers actually allowed us to keep our progress. This out of dozens upon dozens of games I have Alpha and Beta tested starting way back with Atari coin ops where of course, you never had any progress to get wiped anyway! Most of us kids couldn't afford to buy one of those arcade boxes anyway! lol!
But later when I started working on console games, it was just understood that once we were done with the job, any progress we made was going bye bye.
And considering the somewhat "Sorry" state Elite appears to be in, at least based on this XB1 build, I wouldn't be surprised if there are big enough changes to the file management system that we get our progress wiped a few times between now and the final release.
At least don't be surprised if that happens. we are supposed to be here to break the game and report how we broke it. Not to get a head start on Joe Sixpack
Then they should AT LEAST tell the people who don't visit these forums that there may be a wipe. As nowhere in the game, as I stated before does it even mention this. It is potentially brand damaging, and as someone who loves the Sci fi genre and has wanted a game like this for years on console, would hate for frontier to screw it up for everyone because they weren't clear enough on their intentions. This game shouldn't have released to everyone on console till it was ready, it should have been a closed beta if peoples time could end up being wasted.
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Did you read the disclaimer on the page you bought the preview copy? There is another disclaimer similar to that which appears when the game is loading up. Go back and read that. It doesn't come right out and say that progress will be wiped, but they are trying to infer that this IS NOT a retail release, and as such, it will not be handled like one.
I thought everyone who got onboard with this version understood that this is a BETA test program. And by accepting that reality, you basically agree to abide by BETA rules and methods.
Perhaps it might be better for you if you just shelved the game and waited for the retail release. They don't require participation in the BETA test program to own the right to play the game's FINAL RETAIL RELEASE version on XB1 for HALF PRICE, so you still got a hell of a deal!
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Really!? That's how they are going to explain to all the angry people when they find all there data is gone. "oh well if you read between the lines of the disclaimer we put, saying that the game is a preview and stuff may be missing and may not be fully released at all and to only purchase if your happy with the current state of the game. we actually meant all your data may get wiped." I'm sorry its not to much to ask for them to just put it in CLEARLY that this may be the case. Then people can make an informed decision on wether to pay for the game at that risk.
For information, in case anyone hasn't seen this yet:
From here: https://support.elitedangerous.com/kb/faq.php?id=151
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[h=1]Frequently Asked Questions[/h] All Categories » Xbox One - Game Preview Support
Will my Game preview progress carry over to the final release?
At this time we are still looking into the possibility of carrying over some of your characters progress (credits, ranking) from the XBox One game preview to the final release. This is something that our development team are still discussing.
Keep in mind however, that this release is a game preview and similar to a beta, it is not always possible to continue playing on final release without a save game wipe.
All achievements earned and gamerscore added are permanent and will not be removed.
Help Topics: Xbox One Game Preview / Lost Items, Xbox One Game Preview
Last updated Mon, Jun 15 2015 6:33pm
From here: https://support.elitedangerous.com/kb/faq.php?id=151
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[h=1]Frequently Asked Questions[/h] All Categories » Xbox One - Game Preview Support
Will my Game preview progress carry over to the final release?
At this time we are still looking into the possibility of carrying over some of your characters progress (credits, ranking) from the XBox One game preview to the final release. This is something that our development team are still discussing.
Keep in mind however, that this release is a game preview and similar to a beta, it is not always possible to continue playing on final release without a save game wipe.
All achievements earned and gamerscore added are permanent and will not be removed.
Help Topics: Xbox One Game Preview / Lost Items, Xbox One Game Preview
Last updated Mon, Jun 15 2015 6:33pm
I don't know what to tell ya. Except to say that MS and Frontier obviously need to do a better job of educating the general public as to what a Preview Program actually entails. Everyone in my circle of gaming friends interpreted this program as a PUBLIC BETA program with all the trappings of same. That would include save file wipes, complete reinstalls, new FULL downloads of the entire game data etc. etc. etc.
Based on your comments, it is plainly obvious to me that you really should not be involved in this process. You are expecting this to play and be handled like a retail release, and that simply is not what this is. Nor will it be for any of the other games that come down the pike in the Preview Program. Beta testing video games is not for everyone. I would most certainly say it is not for YOU!
Like I said... Just shelve the game and wait for the final retail release to arrive and start you Elite adventure then. You already bought the right to the full release for $31.00 for not having to lift a finger if you don't want to. If I shared your opinions on how this all should go (which is totally off base in my opinion) I would most definitely hang it up and wait for the retail release you obviously expected this version to be.
Based on your comments, it is plainly obvious to me that you really should not be involved in this process. You are expecting this to play and be handled like a retail release, and that simply is not what this is. Nor will it be for any of the other games that come down the pike in the Preview Program. Beta testing video games is not for everyone. I would most certainly say it is not for YOU!
Like I said... Just shelve the game and wait for the final retail release to arrive and start you Elite adventure then. You already bought the right to the full release for $31.00 for not having to lift a finger if you don't want to. If I shared your opinions on how this all should go (which is totally off base in my opinion) I would most definitely hang it up and wait for the retail release you obviously expected this version to be.
Yes I have seen that and I'm fully aware of their stance and was when I bought the game. However my argument Is for all the people and my friends who don't use forums etc.
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We will have to agree to disagree bud.
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I don't know what to tell ya. Except to say that MS and Frontier obviously need to do a better job of educating the general public as to what a Preview Program actually entails. Everyone in my circle of gaming friends interpreted this program as a PUBLIC BETA program with all the trappings of same. That would include save file wipes, complete reinstalls, new FULL downloads of the entire game data etc. etc. etc.
Based on your comments, it is plainly obvious to me that you really should not be involved in this process. You are expecting this to play and be handled like a retail release, and that simply is not what this is. Nor will it be for any of the other games that come down the pike in the Preview Program. Beta testing video games is not for everyone. I would most certainly say it is not for YOU!
Like I said... Just shelve the game and wait for the final retail release to arrive and start you Elite adventure then. You already bought the right to the full release for $31.00 for not having to lift a finger if you don't want to. If I shared your opinions on how this all should go (which is totally off base in my opinion) I would most definitely hang it up and wait for the retail release you obviously expected this version to be.
We will have to agree to disagree bud.
There ya go! Looks like they are being a little more sensitive with the XBOX community than they obviously were with the PC and Mac communities when it comes to this subject. Probably because PC gamers are a lot more experienced with playing early beta versions of their games, and know that technically, it is not always possible to preserve save files from a previous version of the game if the developers are forced to make, or decide to make a decision to radically change aspects of the game design in order to improve it, thus rendering save files made on the previous builds incompatible with the new redesigned version.
This is all part of the process, and some of this is eluded to in that disclaimer I pointed out earlier.
Whatever dude. You've got PC version players telling you that they had their save files wiped during their beta test process of Elite, and someone like myself who has beta tested games professionally for decades telling you that this is normal and all part of the process.
I don't know why you are arguing with more experienced folks about how a BETA program is supposed to be run. You are expecting this to work like a retail release, which this is not, so all you are doing is disagreeing with reality.
Play it or don't play it. The decision is totally yours to make, but know that this is not a retail game YET. Lots can change between now and that final release version, so don't get too attached to your progress, or even some of the current feature set. Stuff can change radically during one of these cycles. Best not to become emotionally attached to any of it.
Thats why I said that Beta Testing video games is not for everyone.
Good luck to ya!
Microsoft/Frontier need to make it clear in an unmissable Preview Purchase splash screen that progress may not be carried forward to the final game.
I would approach this game preview stage as both.
Don't do anything to hurt your standing if there is not a wipe (like wasting all your credits on hookers and blow)
Don't get too attached to your progress/stuff if they do wipe it.
Right now, as I've just started, I have avoided killing anything or doing any missions. Thus I have zero rep/bounty/whatever. I haven't spent any of my 100K.
I am just working on doing basic travel and navigation. Maybe explore the next star and get a few creds for it, then spend that.
If I die, I lose my basic sidey and get a free replacement.
nice and simple.
Once I get better, venture out a bit more, but not too strongly, so if they wipe, I'm not out much, I just learned a bunch for the real deal.
Don't do anything to hurt your standing if there is not a wipe (like wasting all your credits on hookers and blow)
Don't get too attached to your progress/stuff if they do wipe it.
Right now, as I've just started, I have avoided killing anything or doing any missions. Thus I have zero rep/bounty/whatever. I haven't spent any of my 100K.
I am just working on doing basic travel and navigation. Maybe explore the next star and get a few creds for it, then spend that.
If I die, I lose my basic sidey and get a free replacement.
nice and simple.
Once I get better, venture out a bit more, but not too strongly, so if they wipe, I'm not out much, I just learned a bunch for the real deal.
I think it's very simple. Working on reputation and credits takes a lot of time, hours that everybody will prefer to spend on something useful.
By my point of view, if I know my efforts won't be wasted, I'll play the best way I can, helping to improve the beta as well.
If I know everything will be deleted, I'll stop playing the game waiting for the final release (not helping improving it, sadly).
So the point here is not agreeing or disagreeing about wipe, but *IF* there will be one or not.
I appreciate who says "it's a beta, it may happen". I know, thanks, but there are actually people that can answer this and they're ED devs.
Just say "yes" or "not" and everyone will be happy and will act the way they prefer.
I know there is people who loves playing on beta servers (see wow PTR) to discover new things and learn and, while I understand that, for me is just wasting time, so I prefer to avoid that.
That said what (I think) we're talking about are reputation and credits. So, unless someone will find a way to spoil them and get an unfair advantage, they're not things that can't be preserved if devs want.
And, of course, there are also methods for devs to find out who's cheating and punish (or wipe) him. That's what most of online games already do nowadays.
By my point of view, if I know my efforts won't be wasted, I'll play the best way I can, helping to improve the beta as well.
If I know everything will be deleted, I'll stop playing the game waiting for the final release (not helping improving it, sadly).
So the point here is not agreeing or disagreeing about wipe, but *IF* there will be one or not.
I appreciate who says "it's a beta, it may happen". I know, thanks, but there are actually people that can answer this and they're ED devs.
Just say "yes" or "not" and everyone will be happy and will act the way they prefer.
I know there is people who loves playing on beta servers (see wow PTR) to discover new things and learn and, while I understand that, for me is just wasting time, so I prefer to avoid that.
That said what (I think) we're talking about are reputation and credits. So, unless someone will find a way to spoil them and get an unfair advantage, they're not things that can't be preserved if devs want.
And, of course, there are also methods for devs to find out who's cheating and punish (or wipe) him. That's what most of online games already do nowadays.
All what GG7 says is true. We are basically testing for Frontier. You get access to the game early and that is your compensation. The disclaimer when we bought into the preview says it all...hell..I even think it said something about it not being a finished game and may never be finished...just to cover all bases legally..though that will never happen of course. So you can't say you weren't warned.
I played the beta on PC and suffered two wipes. You can either get upset about it or use it as an opportunity to experiment. Do some things you wouldn't normally dare do, take risks you wouldn't normally take. At the very least if they do wipe our progress, you will have a head start in experience that will give you the edge on the newbie players at launch.
I am even surprised we get to keep our xbox live achievements. I was wondering how they would handle this in the event of a wipe, considering we got them while playing with 100,000 advantage etc. Some could look on that as almost cheating....
I am personally an optimistic person and choose to think there won't be wipe.
GG7 and myself and a couple of others have been tossing this discussion back and forth in another thread. As well as the problem with frame rates/ lag. He says expect a wipe and I try to come up with arguments against it. He will no doubt have his ultimate revenge when there is a reset and people across the country here my distant cry of "nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!' ....... lol
GG7 and Lock...just wanted to say it's been a pleasure debating with you both!
I played the beta on PC and suffered two wipes. You can either get upset about it or use it as an opportunity to experiment. Do some things you wouldn't normally dare do, take risks you wouldn't normally take. At the very least if they do wipe our progress, you will have a head start in experience that will give you the edge on the newbie players at launch.
I am even surprised we get to keep our xbox live achievements. I was wondering how they would handle this in the event of a wipe, considering we got them while playing with 100,000 advantage etc. Some could look on that as almost cheating....
I am personally an optimistic person and choose to think there won't be wipe.
GG7 and myself and a couple of others have been tossing this discussion back and forth in another thread. As well as the problem with frame rates/ lag. He says expect a wipe and I try to come up with arguments against it. He will no doubt have his ultimate revenge when there is a reset and people across the country here my distant cry of "nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!' ....... lol
GG7 and Lock...just wanted to say it's been a pleasure debating with you both!
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Reading through the last few pages has made me think more on the subject. Playing devils advocate though Hrothdain has a point. Most console players have never had contact with a beta test program before. Expecting people to read between the lines on something they have absolutely no experience of is a bit much. Even if there is just a remote possibility of a wipe Frontier had a responsibility to inform the console public in no uncertain terms, even if it was just protect their own reputation and the games. Console players are a less forgiving bunch than PC players. Then you factor in the xbox achievement system which actively encourages people to work hard at making progress and you have a potential public relations disaster that could hurt sales of the game.
Part of the problem is that these next generation consoles are getting closer to PC gaming rigs in their capabilities. So they are attracting games like Elite which would never have made it on to consoles before. Before the console gamer and PC gamer existed as separate entities. PC games by their nature require a closer relationship with the devs in the form of using forums to report bugs, discuss strategies, report on how their various rigs performed etc. Up to now console gamers just put the disc in and played and could happily get along without ever visiting a forum.
To get the most out of a game like Elite being active on the forums is requirement. Even if not to post but to read. Console players are going to have to get used to visiting these forums to get the info they need.
Part of the problem is that these next generation consoles are getting closer to PC gaming rigs in their capabilities. So they are attracting games like Elite which would never have made it on to consoles before. Before the console gamer and PC gamer existed as separate entities. PC games by their nature require a closer relationship with the devs in the form of using forums to report bugs, discuss strategies, report on how their various rigs performed etc. Up to now console gamers just put the disc in and played and could happily get along without ever visiting a forum.
To get the most out of a game like Elite being active on the forums is requirement. Even if not to post but to read. Console players are going to have to get used to visiting these forums to get the info they need.
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Well, this generation consoles *are* PC. They share the same hardware, CPU, GPU and this is a great advantage for code porting. ED wouldn't ever be ported on 360 or PS3, that is.
Anyway, since the point of view of all posters in this thread is correct, I think the only options we have are the following:
1 - keep playing as it is the final game (earn experience)
2 - keep playing and try everything (risk all)
3 - stop playing and wait for release (don't waste time)
Personally I'll do the 3, I always put my best efforts when I play and the idea of spending months for nothing really take my enthusiasm away.
But I'll keep following this forum as it's one of the most interesting I've seen (and full of really good people to talk with).
Anyway, since the point of view of all posters in this thread is correct, I think the only options we have are the following:
1 - keep playing as it is the final game (earn experience)
2 - keep playing and try everything (risk all)
3 - stop playing and wait for release (don't waste time)
Personally I'll do the 3, I always put my best efforts when I play and the idea of spending months for nothing really take my enthusiasm away.
But I'll keep following this forum as it's one of the most interesting I've seen (and full of really good people to talk with).
This.
It has been stated multiple times already, but this so much.
I totally don't mind getting my save wiped as this is very much a weirdly named beta, but I'd like to know it BEFOREHAND.
The current stance is pretty weird "well we may be wiping your save but at the same time we know people won't play the game much if they know their progress will be wiped, so maybe some of this progress will carry, or not".
Grrr.
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