That's a good point. I find I enjoy ED more, if I take an occasional break and play some other game for a while.I don't think it's even that.
A person gets a little burnt out after playing Elite for thousands of hours. But that right there means there already IS that "something special".
I think it's rather the case of Ben (and others) needing a break or to move on, not something wrong with the game
Something really special is needed
- Thread starter Ben Ryder
- Start date
The secret to many a thread.Dont mind me, just rambling after some drinks.
Some valid overall concerns. I think we all reach a point where the game starts to feel repetitive. Sometimes that feeling can be reset by a temporary change of playing style or activity, sometimes it takes a couple of weeks of non-play or even a wait until the next point release that may or may not scratch the itch.
Where I can't agree is on the graphics and, by extension, the scale. I have seen many space games and renderers, both prior to 2014 and during ED's lifetime, that offer more of a "wow" factor when delivering a space scene. Maybe the colours pop a little more. Maybe the moons feel closer to their parent bodies and so deliver an awe-inspiring sense of mass that's sometimes missing from ED. Maybe the landscapes are a little more convincing from orbit. Maybe the space stations feel bigger in the night sky, the ships more dramatic in their movements.
But the thing most of these share is that they're hand-crafted. They're designed with the sole purpose of wowing those who look at them. They routinely break the laws of nature in favour of the rule of cool. Nothing wrong with that. But when I see even a "mediocre" scene in ED, especially out in the sticks away from the hand-coded overrides in some bubble systems, and remind myself that all of that beauty is spawned from nothing but mathematics and algorithms, well... it's a thing of joy to me.
I fully appreciate that not everybody sees things the same way (search this forum for "copypasta") but to me there is a wonder in gazing on a rocky moon orbiting a gas giant surrounded by an ring of ice in a trinary star system that leapt from a bunch of equations only because I flew to that system. And that the whole of it, down to the individual undulations around one of a hundred thousand craters on one of a dozen moons, would still be "there" if I or somebody else visited again in a week, a year, ten years. All wrapped up in the maths, waiting to be (re)discovered. It's almost spiritual.
Would all this be even better with a more detailed rendering engine? Of course, and we can only hope such changes are coming. Beyond's planetary surface improvements are a start, and let's hope they're the start of something significant. But as of right now, ED offers something nothing else can. Space Engine is arguably capable of better rendering, but until I can drive around its planets in a rover, ED has the edge for me.
What can I say? I'm a simulation nut. The idea of virtual worlds has always appealed to me, even before I'd have known what "virtual worlds" meant. I guess Elite has always been this way for me too. The 1984 original could arguably have been a better trading game if it only had a dozen hand-crafted systems with a dynamic economy, but then would a single circle for every planet and a filled disc for every star have provided enough graphical "wow" to make that world believable? In my case possibly not. But 2048 planets buried in the Fibonacci of 20-odd KB of RAM? That was astonishing. And so every one of those circles and discs was different to me, because I knew where the systems they represented came from, and it wasn't from a designer.
Similarly with FFE. A whole galaxy on a floppy disk. Did it matter that 95% of it was inaccessible unless you cheated? Not really. It was there, and yet it wasn't there, depending on whether or not you went to a particular "there". It was magical. It still is.
For me ED delivers that in spades, with a 21st century veneer. It doesn't need the bestest everest graphics, hand-tweaked for maximum wow factor (although it's capable of it, given the right conditions and a bit of luck). It just needs to do what these games have always done, spawn a virtual universe from nothing but a bunch of probabilities, and let me convince myself that it's somehow real and not real at the same time.
To me, the fact that there's a good but flawed game sitting on top of it all is almost secondary.
Where I can't agree is on the graphics and, by extension, the scale. I have seen many space games and renderers, both prior to 2014 and during ED's lifetime, that offer more of a "wow" factor when delivering a space scene. Maybe the colours pop a little more. Maybe the moons feel closer to their parent bodies and so deliver an awe-inspiring sense of mass that's sometimes missing from ED. Maybe the landscapes are a little more convincing from orbit. Maybe the space stations feel bigger in the night sky, the ships more dramatic in their movements.
But the thing most of these share is that they're hand-crafted. They're designed with the sole purpose of wowing those who look at them. They routinely break the laws of nature in favour of the rule of cool. Nothing wrong with that. But when I see even a "mediocre" scene in ED, especially out in the sticks away from the hand-coded overrides in some bubble systems, and remind myself that all of that beauty is spawned from nothing but mathematics and algorithms, well... it's a thing of joy to me.
I fully appreciate that not everybody sees things the same way (search this forum for "copypasta") but to me there is a wonder in gazing on a rocky moon orbiting a gas giant surrounded by an ring of ice in a trinary star system that leapt from a bunch of equations only because I flew to that system. And that the whole of it, down to the individual undulations around one of a hundred thousand craters on one of a dozen moons, would still be "there" if I or somebody else visited again in a week, a year, ten years. All wrapped up in the maths, waiting to be (re)discovered. It's almost spiritual.
Would all this be even better with a more detailed rendering engine? Of course, and we can only hope such changes are coming. Beyond's planetary surface improvements are a start, and let's hope they're the start of something significant. But as of right now, ED offers something nothing else can. Space Engine is arguably capable of better rendering, but until I can drive around its planets in a rover, ED has the edge for me.
What can I say? I'm a simulation nut. The idea of virtual worlds has always appealed to me, even before I'd have known what "virtual worlds" meant. I guess Elite has always been this way for me too. The 1984 original could arguably have been a better trading game if it only had a dozen hand-crafted systems with a dynamic economy, but then would a single circle for every planet and a filled disc for every star have provided enough graphical "wow" to make that world believable? In my case possibly not. But 2048 planets buried in the Fibonacci of 20-odd KB of RAM? That was astonishing. And so every one of those circles and discs was different to me, because I knew where the systems they represented came from, and it wasn't from a designer.
Similarly with FFE. A whole galaxy on a floppy disk. Did it matter that 95% of it was inaccessible unless you cheated? Not really. It was there, and yet it wasn't there, depending on whether or not you went to a particular "there". It was magical. It still is.
For me ED delivers that in spades, with a 21st century veneer. It doesn't need the bestest everest graphics, hand-tweaked for maximum wow factor (although it's capable of it, given the right conditions and a bit of luck). It just needs to do what these games have always done, spawn a virtual universe from nothing but a bunch of probabilities, and let me convince myself that it's somehow real and not real at the same time.
To me, the fact that there's a good but flawed game sitting on top of it all is almost secondary.
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Its very easy to prove you wrong. Just take some mission that tells you to take some meaningless cargo to a station 100000 ls from the star. All you have is a black screen and boredom until you reach your destination. How is this in any way stimulation your imagination, except the fact that you have to imagine yourself doing something else to not get insanely bored.
I think there are a few key factors:
- The flight model is special.
- Space is special (enough).
If you don't enjoy the moment to moment taking the car for a drive inside at the planetarium effect, you not going to get very far in elite. That's the main hook.
The other factor which can really change your outlook is how much you've spent at frontierstore.net. If you just started, and have only paid for base elite and horizons, maybe one or two skins, you can and do look at every patch frontier as a warm, generous gift that can do no wrong. And it is for that price. If you've spend 3 digits (or whatever amount checks your measure) you start looking more closely before giving it a pass, expecting real stuff in return for your support. This is where it easily gets complicated.
Every time i think about this, i check that i've disconnected from the sandbox and gone somewhere dark. If you clicked with it, nothing that has come since has changed it really except the background narrative. I like to anchor on this personally.
- The flight model is special.
- Space is special (enough).
If you don't enjoy the moment to moment taking the car for a drive inside at the planetarium effect, you not going to get very far in elite. That's the main hook.
The other factor which can really change your outlook is how much you've spent at frontierstore.net. If you just started, and have only paid for base elite and horizons, maybe one or two skins, you can and do look at every patch frontier as a warm, generous gift that can do no wrong. And it is for that price. If you've spend 3 digits (or whatever amount checks your measure) you start looking more closely before giving it a pass, expecting real stuff in return for your support. This is where it easily gets complicated.
Every time i think about this, i check that i've disconnected from the sandbox and gone somewhere dark. If you clicked with it, nothing that has come since has changed it really except the background narrative. I like to anchor on this personally.
Having played for a year or two on a pc and Xbox I took a dip into vr with oculus rift. This IS the only game I play on vr now, other games seem shallow comparatively (something ED get accused of from some). Often I just sit gawping at the brilliance of the sights. To use the terrible marketing twaddle ED’s ‘unique selling point’ would be its 3D excellence it is literally game changing.
Moc
Kernow
Moc
Kernow
Having a moment of weakness, there, Ben?
What you call "mediocre" I call "pliant"
The game seems mediocre to a person without an imagination. It's mediocre in the same way an empty playground is mediocre. All the toys are there, but on their own, they're pointless. Someone has to come and say "I'm a pirate and this is my boat. I will sail the seven seas and see everything there is to see."
So thank I God my birth
Fell not in isles aside
Waste headlands of the earth,
Or warring tribes untried
But that she lent me worth
And gave me right to pride.
Surely in toil or fray
Under an alien sky,
Comfort it is to say:
'Of no mean city am I!'
Mediocre to a person without an imagination trope will only carry you so far.
You should just recommend they read a book and imagine they’re playing a game.
Achilles7
Banned
Having a moment of weakness, there, Ben?
What you call "mediocre" I call "pliant"
The game seems mediocre to a person without an imagination. It's mediocre in the same way an empty playground is mediocre. All the toys are there, but on their own, they're pointless. Someone has to come and say "I'm a pirate and this is my boat. I will sail the seven seas and see everything there is to see."
So thank I God my birth
Fell not in isles aside
Waste headlands of the earth,
Or warring tribes untried
But that she lent me worth
And gave me right to pride.
Surely in toil or fray
Under an alien sky,
Comfort it is to say:
'Of no mean city am I!'
Satirical Nirvana...I can only bow down before you in deference!
verminstar
Banned
I think its cos elite isnt actually new...its a reworking of something else that was new in 84, similar to how old movies are remade. And therein lies the problem I think...its not original, its just redoing what was original in 84 and while a good remake, its just not original or unique. It wont matter how good the remake is or what new bells n whistles they add, its still never gonna be more than a remake at its heart.
Thats not a criticism of the game...some movies that were remade were a massive improvement on the originals as elite now is a massive improvement over the original. But back then, we didnt know any better...we grew up on cheesy, badly acted sci fi with cardboard props and thought of them as timeless classics, similar to how hardcore lifelong star trek fans lambasted the rehashed movies, which while so much more visually stunning that the originals, the diehard fans refuse to consider the new movies an improvement, and criticize every plot twist that doesnt align with the original plotlines.
While different and as upgraded as elite is, its still just a remake at its core...its not an original idea even if the likes of the flight model is a new take on an old game ^
Thats not a criticism of the game...some movies that were remade were a massive improvement on the originals as elite now is a massive improvement over the original. But back then, we didnt know any better...we grew up on cheesy, badly acted sci fi with cardboard props and thought of them as timeless classics, similar to how hardcore lifelong star trek fans lambasted the rehashed movies, which while so much more visually stunning that the originals, the diehard fans refuse to consider the new movies an improvement, and criticize every plot twist that doesnt align with the original plotlines.
While different and as upgraded as elite is, its still just a remake at its core...its not an original idea even if the likes of the flight model is a new take on an old game ^
Blackcompany
Banned
Ahh...the imagination excuse again.
I know: I'll load up the game, take a couple of zero consequence missions that I know dont change anything, and MAKE BELIEVE i am having meaningful conversations with the people assigning the jobs. Then I can PRETEND the missions accomplish something, combat serves some purpose, and that I am sitting in a space bar, talking with mission givers about the utterly fake impact I didnt even have on anything a person would notice...
I'm...not sure this is really a reasonable expectation, to be honest. I mean, if playing pretend works for you, go right on ahead, but...asking others to IMAGINE that something in the game is changing, or even HAPPENING AT ALL, when clearly the game utterly fails to reflect their pretend interactions...
You...might wanna talk to someone about that. Really.
This is more right than you know. They literally retextured 1984 in HD, and sold it as a new game. Complete with every single technical limitation the previous title included.
So roleplaying and having fun in the game that doesn't shove it in your face all the time is now considered a mental illness?
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Just needs some groundbreaking mechanics added. In 1984 Elite could have been considered a work of art but the planet has spun around many times since then ! Problem for me is in the game I just feel like an npc.
You mean you don't feel like an almighty hero, who set out to save the world? That you feel insignificant and without an impact on the whole galaxy? Good.
That's how it should be. You're just a guy in a rocket.
There are no "ground breaking mechanics" coming. Atmospheric planets, lava worlds, gas giants? Space legs? Nah. They will just widen the sandbox, but still rely on YOU, finding the reason to play.
If you advertise it as such then congratulations! You've built a better mousetrap! No, seriously. If you advertise it like so you'd probably be surprised as how well financially that game will be.
Besides, you literally just described early video games. Hell you just described Asteroids.
That's all video games are. We're given pixels and told it's A and that you're out to interact with B in a C manner.
The difference is that the values of A B and C are defined by the studio in a themepark experience. Spaceship fighting pirates? Star Wars. Pirate Sailing for Booty? Assassin's Creed IV. Soldier saving the world from bad guys? Every COD, Battlefield, and Medal of Honor game to date.
A sandbox let's YOU define those values.
Imagination is the missing component for every single time I've seen this complaint of "Elite is just loading screens and badly designed minigames." What video game ISN'T?
The difference? You have an endgoal you're working toward in a COD game. Each aspect of COD getting closer to it. Shooting the bad guys? A minigame where you scan, target, and shoot. Defusing the bomb? Electronics minigame. Diplomacy in a Mass Effect game? Social conversation mini-game. Dead end in a dungeon in Legend of Zelda? Puzzle minigame.
The difference between all these games? You can turn your brain off because the game tells you that all of these things are leading to the big payout.
There is no big payout in Elite Dangerous. Without the overarching plot that leads to the end, you have to actually decide for yourself how all these mini-games and loading screens are linked.
I remember when people compared SWG and WoW. WoW was bigger and supposedly better then SWG with a much more massive playerbase.
Well even back then, WoW held your hand and chained all those quests together in a long running plotline for your character regardless of what you chose in your adventure from level 1 to max level.
SWG did nothing of the sort. You were dumped in one of nine starports of your choosing and left to fend for yourself.
I get your frustrations but I don't agree with your final sentence. It infers that Elite is not a well designed game.
The game is what it was advertised. To me that is well designed.
To others who say it isn't designed well and missing something? I know that that something is.
That's an overarching plot that holds your hand and tells you what you're working toward so you can shut your brain off and be entertained rather the entertain yourself.
You mean you don't feel like an almighty hero, who set out to save the world? That you feel insignificant and without an impact on the whole galaxy? Good.
That's how it should be. You're just a guy in a rocket.
There are no "ground breaking mechanics" coming. Atmospheric planets, lava worlds, gas giants? Space legs? Nah. They will just widen the sandbox, but still rely on YOU, finding the reason to play.
No nothing like that, I am also insignificant in real life but if I move a chair in my front room the next morning it is still in the place where I left it ! I get that Elite is an experience more than a game, bit like climbing a mountain for the view but is it no good to expect my footprints to be left on the trail ?