Newcomer / Intro Sorry to ask About Hotas but........

Yes perhaps a bit pricey but maybe if I stick with Space and Flight sims, I used to be a big MS Flight Sim enthusiast a few years ago, Im really trying to get into ED but struggling a bit at the moment with progress so such an investment will have to wait. Thanks for the hardware link.

I'd go, as many have suggested, the Hotas X - or perhaps see if there is a bargain second hand TM T16000M + Throttle.

If you find yourself liking it, as I did, and investing a lot of time in game - and especially if you are also going to play DCS, then it's worth saving or a Virpil/CH/VKB gear in the long run.

If you find yourself over it in a short time, the Hotas X is not a huge expense.

Z...
 
Oops - sorry, incoming wall of text...;)

Another TM T.16000M with TWCS user here - in fact experimenting with a kind of HOTASAS setup at the moment (A throttle and 2 sticks - trying to become better at FA-off flying and I find operating the lateral/vertical thrust axes with the analog ministick on the TWCS throttle a bit awkward). Reasonably happy with the setup and the possibilities offered, but in all honesty a few caveats apply:

- The buttons on the base of the stick units are of little use, except if you have lots of time to find them, which can be limited when in combat. First off, their arrangement doesn't lend to their functions becoming intuitive, at least to me (YMMV though). Second, the ones on the far end from where you're sitting are difficult to find or reach. (There are users who have modified their units to incorporate up to two additional micro-hat switches and four fixed buttons at various locations on the stick itself to compensate. Unless you are simply rerouting (wiring from) the available base switches, you'll need an additional separate USB controller board.)

- On my first stick unit I've had a QC issue in that the twist axis started to get noisy (in dependence on the trottle slider position) only weeks after installation - and I'm an occasional player at best. I haven't sent it for RMA as I have other plans for it.

- The TWCS throttle unit has loads of additional controls (one analog 2D ministick, one analog 1D paddle, three digital hat switches, one digital two-way switch and three buttons) and works very nicely as a single-direction throttle with perhaps almost a too long stroke - but it has no centre detent, which makes two-directional operation (i.e. including half a stroke for reverse thrust) hit-and-mostly-miss. (I plan to modify this using a couple of strong magnets, one on the throttle slider and one on the base.)

- However, the stick units only have one hat switch, which I found a bit wanting for a game with as many functions as ED. One can set up any other button as a modifier, but even then I find that the stick hat switch acquires at least three layers of functions. My muscle memory has difficulty getting used to that.

- As I wrote, I currently have an extra stick for my left hand set up for lateral/vertical thrust, which gives much more precision - I have found out the hard way that my left index finger lacks the precision to operate the analog ministick at the index finger position on the TWCS throttle (this has little travel) and this may apply to other die-hard right-handers. (However, I'm unhappy with the fact that I have to move my left hand between throttle and left stick - I'd much rather leave it on the throttle so I'll probably end up ditching the left stick. I now plan to mod the right stick by adding at least an analog thumb joystick).
 
Last edited:
.........

Another TM T.16000M with TCS user here - i.......

Do you mean the TWCS throttle (Thrustmaster Weapon Control System)?

Just that TCS is the Train Control System (yes I do have a "train set" ;) ) so might confuse newcomers here. That is not to say that some train controllers couldn't be used, after all many people use Saitek's farm simulator controller in Elite.
 
Last edited:
Ahhrgh - typed too quickly - will edit my post, thanks Para

Funny enough I'd also been looking at the Saitek button box, after all you can NEVER have enough buttons, but deemed it a little bit too clunky for my - very cramped - setup. I do have needs for extra buttons, which I've filled for now with an old Android phone running a Vertic client together with a server on the PC.
 
Last edited:
....
Funny enough I'd also been looking at the Saitek button box, after all you can NEVER have enough buttons, but deemed it a little bit too clunky for my - very cramped - setup. I do have needs for extra buttons, which I've filled for now with an old Android phone running a Vertic client together with a server on the PC.

You will want these Thrustmaster Cougar MFD panels then (box of 2):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrustmaster-Replica-Force-Cougar-Flight-Black/dp/B002HH9TRY/

But shop around - I have seen them for £75 at Argos ( https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8054584 ) I bought them years ago for under £50 I think.

W40bpvK.jpg



I got them for Flight Simulators but they are great for Elite too. People even have them attached to small displays to give them really snazzy looks (too much bother for me) and there are custom inserts you can print out - info on the forum here somewhere.


DCVoaiQ.jpg



I cleared some of the assignments and have not replaced them yet, they really need re-organising - so many buttons so little time. ;)
 
Last edited:
Yeah, I've looked at these too. My workspace real estate is very cramped, though, wouldn't know where to put these... Pity ED doesn't provide data outputs in its API, otherwise I might easily have let myself be persuaded, but having non-functional inserts makes them lose their appeal somewhat IMHO.
 
You will want these Thrustmaster Cougar MFD panels then (box of 2):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrustmaster-Replica-Force-Cougar-Flight-Black/dp/B002HH9TRY/

But shop around - I have seen them for £75 at Argos ( https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8054584 ) I bought them years ago for under £50 I think.




I got them for Flight Simulators but they are great for Elite too. People even have them attached to small displays to give them really snazzy looks (too much bother for me) and there are custom inserts you can print out - info on the forum here somewhere.





I cleared some of the assignments and have not replaced them yet, they really need re-organising - so many buttons so little time. ;)

So how do you label the buttons on these?
 
Be careful laying out too much if you're used to kbm - I got a stick and couldn't control my ship at all with it so went back to my trusty kb - maybe see if you can borrow one and see how you get on!
 
So how do you label the buttons on these?

Personally, I don't as I use them more for flight simulation and use the inserts for that. People have made designs you can edit to suit your assignments, print-out and insert in the frame. (Each frame has a double sheet of clear acrylic / plastic to put your insert in between and then slide that into the frame.)

Some people have utilized displays and photo-frames behind the MFDs - there are lots of inventive and resourceful people around (not me though I am a lazy scrub). Here are a few threads to show the sort of things people have created (worth scrolling the whole threads):

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...el-Inserts-for-Thrustmaster-Cougar-Pack-MFDs/

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...rnal-display-and-surface-navigation-assistant

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/455750-Cougar-MFD-displays

(there are more ... :) )
 
Last edited:
So how do you label the buttons on these?

There's a template you can edit to make custom inserts to label the buttons.

I have 2 sets of TM Warthogs and use the Cougars as well and rudder pedals.

I don't think you can buy a better throttle and stick combination unless you look at some of the Euro made stuff that gets good reviews, but is almost never in stock and who knows when they're going to run more, etc or whether they're going to be around in a few years.

The problem you'll run into is that if you go with a Warthog setup, you definitely need rudder pedals - and here is where quality is critical, as the difference between avg and high quality is a quantum leap experientially.

Right now I think the MG Crosswinds are probably the best combination of quality/price/availability for getting a high quality product.

If you decide you want to go the HOTAS/Rudder pedals route, you also want to look carefully at how you are going to set up everything. I use desk mounts that aren't cheap, but these are very heavy metal units - not the fly weight consumer grade stuff.

Make sure you understand what you need and where your going to put/mount everything before you get in deep and are disappointed because you didn't plan carefully.

If you do it right, it will enhance the whole ED experience and enjoyment considerably.

But it ain't cheap - All told, I'm probably at around $1200 - $1300 worth of gear in my HOTAS/Rudders/Desk mounts - not to mention adding in Voice Attack and HCS Voice Packs.
 
Last edited:
There's a template you can edit to make custom inserts to label the buttons.

I have 2 sets of TM Warthogs and use the Cougars as well and rudder pedals.

I don't think you can buy a better throttle and stick combination unless you look at some of the Euro made stuff that gets good reviews, but is almost never in stock and who knows when they're going to run more, etc or whether they're going to be around in a few years.

The problem you'll run into is that if you go with a Warthog setup, you definitely need rudder pedals - and here is where quality is critical, as the difference between avg and high quality is a quantum leap experientially.

Right now I think the MG Crosswinds are probably the best combination of quality/price/availability for getting a high quality product.

If you decide you want to go the HOTAS/Rudder pedals route, you also want to look carefully at how you are going to set up everything. I use desk mounts that aren't cheap, but these are very heavy metal units - not the fly weight consumer grade stuff.

Make sure you understand what you need and where your going to put/mount everything before you get in deep and are disappointed because you didn't plan carefully.

If you do it right, it will enhance the whole ED experience and enjoyment considerably.

But it ain't cheap - All told, I'm probably at around $1200 - $1300 worth of gear in my HOTAS/Rudders/Desk mounts - not to mention adding in Voice Attack and HCS Voice Packs.

Cheers and thanks for the advice, I think I am going to stick with KB&M for a while, see how long I am going to stick with ED and then may jump to quality gear like you describe, I thhink I will find that kit and bookmark it. I may just get the cougars though, not to expensive and got to help with the keys a whole heap. Also Im thinking of getting TrackIR as that looks cool and pretty useful
 
Be careful laying out too much if you're used to kbm - I got a stick and couldn't control my ship at all with it so went back to my trusty kb - maybe see if you can borrow one and see how you get on!

Thanks, yes Im actually settling in with KB&M now so going to stick with it for a while
 
Back
Top Bottom