Space game graphics.

[Steve O B Have]

This is suitably epic and something that I personally expect from E4 when talking about the scale and feel. I would very much like to know what sort of feel we can expect from E4

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/28304.html

 

[DraQ]

Too much fluff like ubiquitous colorful nebulae. The graphics in general were good, though and gas giant was quite cool.

I'd like more homeworld-like backgrounds (I mean similar in that they correspond to the galactic neighbourhood), but still toned down a bit.

 

[summon_libre]

homeworld had backgrounds WAY ott in terms of realism, though yes the nebulae would be nicer if it were relative to where you were.

Currently in EVE the only 'relative' things in the background are some (not all) of the Stars, which represent nearby solarsystems which can be seen on the Map but make no real change in appearance to the background itself.

I heard about EVE in 2001 and eagerly anticipated it to be the next Elite. Sadly, It turned out to be a very different kind of game, although not neccessarily in a bad way. PvP is very in-depth for an MMO and I've been playing it since 2003 but am rather bored of it by this point. It still contains many elements that I would happily welcome in E4, but it's a game sorely lacking in content. That video dosen't portray the gameplay in any way whatsoever and is merely a graphics engine showoff.

I think the perfect space game for me would be some kind of hybrid between Elite II, X3 and EVE. If E4 can manage that, then I'm game.

 

[DraQ]

homeworld had backgrounds WAY ott in terms of realism

Apart from being too bright? How so? They corresponded rather well with what you would see from that particular point in galaxy.

Make no mistake, I'm talking about Homeworld 1.

 

[summon_libre]

that was it. they were so bright it looked like half the galaxy was a firestorm. Sure it looked cool, but hardly what one would call 'realistic'

 

[DraQ]

that was it. they were so bright it looked like half the galaxy was a firestorm. Sure it looked cool, but hardly what one would call 'realistic'

Their spatial layout was realistic, same with colour spectrum. Brightness was off, but they coresponded remarkably well with galactic neighbourhood.

 

[Steve O B Have]

Too much fluff like ubiquitous colorful nebulae. The graphics in general were good, though and gas giant was quite cool.

I'd like more homeworld-like backgrounds (I mean similar in that they correspond to the galactic neighbourhood), but still toned down a bit.

Oh no I entirely agree. Space is a big dark emptiness and that is a really big part of the attraction. What I mean is the scope and the scale of the ships and space stations - I love the sense of scale. I like to know that when I have a small ship it can be truely dwarfed by a huge ship. Space should have the odd glowing cloudy nebule but in general a nice big dark pool

I like the feeling of insignificance when you look up at night and see the Milkyway - I'd like that feeling to be continued in E4. My personal place in the game should make me feel insignificant and the environment entirely EPIC!!

 

[DrBaggy]

Oh no I entirely agree. Space is a big dark emptiness and that is a really big part of the attraction. What I mean is the scope and the scale of the ships and space stations - I love the sense of scale. I like to know that when I have a small ship it can be truely dwarfed by a huge ship. Space should have the odd glowing cloudy nebule but in general a nice big dark pool

I like the feeling of insignificance when you look up at night and see the Milkyway - I'd like that feeling to be continued in E4. My personal place in the game should make me feel insignificant and the environment entirely EPIC!!

Absolutely! Most recent games (The X series for instance) filled space with pretty stuff that totally destroyed any sense of the emptiness of space. David do you visit these forums? Several themes keep reappearing about how we hope Elite 4 will be: Realism based on physics not eye-candy, a sense of the grandeur and emptiness of space that make it feel dangerous and makes us want to explore, the ability to land on planets even if not every leaf can be modelled; i.e. all the stuff that made the Elite series so iconic and that other space sims have failed to capture. It would be nice to know if Frontier shares that vision, or if we are all just wasting our time.

 

[essezeta]

This is suitably epic and something that I personally expect from E4 when talking about the scale and feel. I would very much like to know what sort of feel we can expect from E4

Very good graphics! I think we should expect great things from E4

About Homeworld discussion: I like its sceneries. The best thing I remember of it is the "travel sensation". For example, in the beginning of journey, you play near a nebula. You jump and the nebula is closer. You jump again and you're inside it. This is one my wildest fantasy about E4 (my idea of procedural universe, remember? ). Anyway, I don't know the feasibility of it.

I hope E4 will preserve the Frontier spirit: real star systems and planet displacement (sorry, but I don't like X planets crowding, even I can understand the need to differentiate gate sectors, but too irrealistic. I.e "three worlds" area).

Space is black, no doubt. Nebulas should be present but not everywhere.
In Sol system I think E4 background must be black, with a very bright Milky way.

Another thing I don't like is the "claustrophobic feeling" while piloting a spaceship, common in many space games: few real Kilometers in wich fly your ship, and, if you think about it, it's quite ridiculous: travel for hours to cover few Km.

We're talknig about spaceships! Not Minivans!!

 

[DraQ]

David do you visit these forums? Several themes keep reappearing about how we hope Elite 4 will be: Realism based on physics not eye-candy

Let me rephrase that:

Eye-candy based on realism, not realism based on eye-candy.

a sense of the grandeur and emptiness of space that make it feel dangerous and makes us want to explore, the ability to land on planets even if not every leaf can be modelled; i.e. all the stuff that made the Elite series so iconic and that other space sims have failed to capture. It would be nice to know if Frontier shares that vision, or if we are all just wasting our time.

Seconded.

About Homeworld discussion: I like its sceneries. The best thing I remember of it is the "travel sensation". For example, in the beginning of journey, you play near a nebula. You jump and the nebula is closer. You jump again and you're inside it. This is one my wildest fantasy about E4 (my idea of procedural universe, remember? ). Anyway, I don't know the feasibility of it.

I loved that too. It should be doable by mapping important objects and overall star density in every direction onto a sphere and using it as a backdrop.

I hope E4 will preserve the Frontier spirit: real star systems and planet displacement (sorry, but I don't like X planets crowding, even I can understand the need to differentiate gate sectors, but too irrealistic. I.e "three worlds" area).

Me too. I wouldn't stomach "three worlds area".

Recently I parked my Asp in a neat orbit (with orbital speed oscillating between 26 and almost 36 km/s) around Phekda 4 and lied in wait for pirates. With engines off my ship silently circled massive ringed globe streaked with beige and brown cloud bands and bathed in hot, almost electric-blue light from Phekda, completing each revolution in about 3.5h game-time. I switched to system's orbital map and targeted first of the ships on intercept course. I observed as the pirate's Gecko enetered Planet's satelite system with each second shedding portion of it's great momentum through streams of relativistic helium plasma from it's thrusters. Then I saw it with my own eyes - a sunlit dust-speck thousands of kilometers away contrasting very faintly against the blinding maelstrom of the ring system. Slowly, but much faster than I expected, the distance became hundreds, then tens of kilometers. As soon as I could make out it's silhoutte, the dull-nosed ship began it's attack run. I used the superior thrust of my Asp's powerful engine to get behind the attacker and, as soon as it's aft filled most of my viewscreen I fired. Struck by a short pulse from my 5MW laser the attacker's ship exploded into brilliant shower of boiling metal quickly fading into the blackness of space as it radiated it's heat away. I could still see one of the larger fragments slowly drifiting away. Out of curiosity I used orbital map to examine it's future fate. It turned out, that if I was to remain in orbit, the superior speed of this scorched metal chunk would carry it further from my ship and the gas giant along elliptical path and allowing my ship to leave it behind. Then it'd fall back towards the planet, regaining lost velocity so that the cycle would repeat. Over and over again.

Now I ask, what other game could provide this kind of experience?
And if this kind of experience is possible with a fourteen years old game that outlived the systems it was written for, what can be done with modern gaming PC?

 

[essezeta]

I loved that too. It should be doable by mapping important objects and overall star density in every direction onto a sphere and using it as a backdrop.

Mr Braben, are you reading?

Recently I parked my Asp in..

You're right, it's quite incredible that in 2007 any space game can match a game of 1992!
Maybe the software houses (and market trend) are more oriented in frenetic (unreal) space combat than accurate physics simulation.
I hate to see a planet in the background and know that I can't land on it or even fly to it!

Anyway, I'm quite optimistic about EIV graphics, thanks to Outsider screenshoots.

When could we have a release date or even a little screenshot of EIV?
Why all this secret anyway?

We're dying in waiting!

 

[Steve O B Have]

Mr Braben, are you reading?



You're right, it's quite incredible that in 2007 any space game can match a game of 1992!
Maybe the software houses (and market trend) are more oriented in frenetic (unreal) space combat than accurate physics simulation.
I hate to see a planet in the background and know that I can't land on it or even fly to it!

Anyway, I'm quite optimistic about EIV graphics, thanks to Outsider screenshoots.

When could we have a release date or even a little screenshot of EIV?
Why all this secret anyway?

We're dying in waiting!

Aye - there is something to be said about playability. I picked up X3 the other day and have been left quite cold over it. It has no character, no real depth and even tho it was pretty it just bored me. Port travel is just rotten.

I'm not too fussed about screen shots because they never look the same as the finished product but I would love to see some concept art

 

[DraQ]

I'm not too fussed about screen shots because they never look the same as the finished product but I would love to see some concept art

Screenshots can reveal important gameplay aspects, though.

If I see new and improved Cobra Mk.III, in the screenshot, that is engaged in deep space combat with pirate vessel I can conclude that:

a) The game is likely to feature newtonian flight mechanics true to FE2 and FFE, as suppoerted by the sight of several of Cobra's directional thrusters firing.

OR:

b) The game is going to be crappy arcadey shooter as evidenced by lack of directional thrusters and "next-gen" condensation trails behind the ships.

Similarily, a screen with labels on where a distant gas giant is nothing more than than a tiny light speck says something (yay!) about the size of the planetary systems, as does the screen with several large planets clustered together (blarg.).

A screen with ship flying in atmosphere over varied landscape with space port in the distance says something about possibility of planetary landing.

Etc.

Edit:
Also, speaking of atmospheric flight - reentry fireball when entering the atmosphere at obscenely high speeds. Whenever you're flying so fast that the infamous orange temperature gauge starts to rise, a visible cushion of plasma should form before your ship.

 

[Steve O B Have]

Screenshots can reveal important gameplay aspects, though.

If I see new and improved Cobra Mk.III, in the screenshot, that is engaged in deep space combat with pirate vessel I can conclude that:

a) The game is likely to feature newtonian flight mechanics true to FE2 and FFE, as suppoerted by the sight of several of Cobra's directional thrusters firing.

OR:

b) The game is going to be crappy arcadey shooter as evidenced by lack of directional thrusters and "next-gen" condensation trails behind the ships.

Similarily, a screen with labels on where a distant gas giant is nothing more than than a tiny light speck says something (yay!) about the size of the planetary systems, as does the screen with several large planets clustered together (blarg.).

A screen with ship flying in atmosphere over varied landscape with space port in the distance says something about possibility of planetary landing.

Etc.

Edit:
Also, speaking of atmospheric flight - reentry fireball when entering the atmosphere at obscenely high speeds. Whenever you're flying so fast that the infamous orange temperature gauge starts to rise, a visible cushion of plasma should form before your ship.

All of course assuming that the game has advanced to an aesthetic point which is generally quite a bit down the line. At least with concept art we can get something of a feel for what the design might be like.

 

[DraQ]

All of course assuming that the game has advanced to an aesthetic point which is generally quite a bit down the line. At least with concept art we can get something of a feel for what the design might be like.

Indeed, but the only things concept art tells us is whether new Cobra Mk.III/Asp/Whatever is cool, whether it's recognisable as Cobra Mk.III/Asp/Whatever and what different kinds of starports are there and how cool they are.

 

[Steve O B Have]

Indeed, but the only things concept art tells us is whether new Cobra Mk.III/Asp/Whatever is cool, whether it's recognisable as Cobra Mk.III/Asp/Whatever and what different kinds of starports are there and how cool they are.

yeah but that's pretty important! Aren't you even a little curious about what these iconic ships look like or might look like?

 

[essezeta]

a) The game is likely to feature newtonian flight mechanics true to FE2 and FFE, as suppoerted by the sight of several of Cobra's directional thrusters firing.

OR:

b) The game is going to be crappy arcadey shooter as evidenced by lack of directional thrusters and "next-gen" condensation trails behind the ships

About this concept, I report you this question:

2. Will Elite 4 be based around realistic physics?

Yes, substantially (ie except hyperspace, and general relativity), though the actual flight behaviour will feel more like Elite than Frontier.

I hope this doesn't mean that E4 will loose the two Frontier flight dynamics!
I started the saga playing Frontier Elite II on Amiga 1200. After that I tried to play Elite but I didn't enjoy it as much as second and third episode.

Imho Frontier physic it's quite perfect for gaming purposes!

Edit: Draq, I like the idea of plasma effect.
I add this: Stage 1 (0 to half orange gauge) Atmospheric shield heating, with a nice grahic effect. Stage 2 (half to.. farewell ) plasma formation and eventually ship explosion

 

[DraQ]

I hope this doesn't mean that E4 will loose the two Frontier flight dynamics!

I hope that full manual thruster control will be included. I'm not going to oppose introduction of some kind "relative to target" semi-manual mode that would be on by default for the convenience of most modern gamers, but I want my full manual "engines off"mode to be available - along with jordanian controlls.

I feel somewhat uneasy about "actual flight behaviour" mentioned in the FAQ.
I hope DB is reading this.

As for plasma, I thought about something like this:

Depending on speed relative to atmosphere, slightly refractive shockwave forms before the ship, at higher speeds it starts glowing, faintly at first, then brighter, finally forming blinding fire/plasma ball enveloping the ship.

The rate of hull temperature increase would depend on stage of this fireball, which in turn would depend on current velocity.

 

[Prycon]

I hope this doesn't mean that E4 will loose the two Frontier flight dynamics!

I think it means that E4 will have Newton physics, but simplified to make it playable for new players. I agree with DraQ, I want full manual control as well. I have always liked games that can be configured depending on your understanding and skills. Games that makes controls limited and easy for new users and flexible and complex for the advanced user.

Like one annoying thing with Frontier games. I like clouds in the atmosphere on a planet, but I don't like space dust. But in frontier the to things are under the same on/off button, and I always turn it off cause of the dust thing. Why didn't they make option separate? Arg! And in Freelancer you can't invert the mouse axis, really annoying.

Configurable game = good

 

[DraQ]

I think it means that E4 will have Newton physics, but simplified to make it playable for new players. I agree with DraQ, I want full manual control as well. I have always liked games that can be configured depending on your understanding and skills. Games that makes controls limited and easy for new users and flexible and complex for the advanced user.

Like one annoying thing with Frontier games. I like clouds in the atmosphere on a planet, but I don't like space dust. But in frontier the to things are under the same on/off button, and I always turn it off cause of the dust thing. Why didn't they make option separate? Arg! And in Freelancer you can't invert the mouse axis, really annoying.

Configurable game = good

Indeed. I'm not going to insist on limiting anyone's fun, as long as my idea of fun remains intact, and my idea of fun in Frontier largely consists of dancing between multiple enemies on full manual using all of my ship's directional thrusters, visiting strange places like surface of Titan or cloud layers of Aster, and doing freaky things like putting my ship in orbit.

Frontier was great in that it provided player with a whole realistically depicted galaxy full of stars and planetary systems all with realistic scales and physics, then gave player a ship that could basically fly all by itself. I want this kind of acessibility to be repeated in E4, rather than see it made accessible by dumbing down and downscaling.

As for space dust I can definitely relate, except that I chose to keep the clouds and endure the dust instead.