Specify turrets on/off per fire group - Easy/simple improvement

NeilF

NeilF
If you only want certain turrets on at certain times, you're in trouble. And if you have a mixture of turrets (beam/kinetic) it's madness.


Why not only enable a turret if it marked as active in the current fire group? And to mark a turret active in the fire group you simply allocate "1", "2" or a new symbol specially for turrets. eg: "T".


So if I have 2 beam turrets and 2 cannon turrets I could simply define them as follows:-
Code: 
Fire group      1       2      3
==========      =       =      =
Beam Turret     1              1
Beam Turret     1              1
Cannon Turret           T      T
Cannon Turret           T      T
So we can flick through the firegroups to only shoot beams, only shoot cannons, or shoot all. Optionally (as currently) I can shoot just my beam turrets if I set them so in the system panel.

All it takes is a single new symbol just for turrets (if we don't want to allocate a fire button), and then we can run our turrets intelligently.



A small step on to the best solution
We could alter the overall behaviour just a step further by allowing a turret to be allocated the following settings in a firegroup:-
1 - Fire forward via fire button 1
2 - Fire forward via fire button 2
A - Fire at will
T - Fire at target​

With this approach you could control all your turrets in any fashion you like using just fire froups, and completely do away with the current system panel setting. (Thanks djamila for the suggestion!)

eg: So if I have 2 beam turrets and 2 cannon turrets I could simply define them as follows:-

Code: 
Fire group      1      2      3      4
==========      =      =      =      =
Beam Turret     1      T             A
Beam Turret     1      T             A
Cannon Turret                 T      A
Cannon Turret                 T      A

So firegroup:-
1 - Manually fire forwards with beams (fire button 1).
2 - Turret with beams only (attack against shields).
3 - Turret with cannons only (attack against hull).
4 - Fire everything at anything!

Note: A little symbol on the HUD should show when turret is not active, or what mode it's in (eg: Fire Forward, Fire At Will or At Target).


These are tiny little enhancements which then give far more logical control over turrets.






UPDATE
V1.3 may include a turret update:-
Some good news/updates from Mike Evans:-
- https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=122482&p=1917792&viewfull=1#post1917792 (ie: They're looking to improve them)
- https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=122482&p=1918432&viewfull=1#post1918432 (ie: The suggestion in this enhancement is along the lines of where they'd like to get to... but it they need to work towards it possibly)​
 
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SHADEVARI

S
It would definitely be an improvement not wasting all those (multi)cannon bullets while the lasers are still working on the shields. Lasers on hull, especially class 3, isn't bad at all though.

Also being have to set individual turrets to TARGET ONLY or FIRE AT WILL and others to FORWARD FIRE (inside the fire group tab) would really make them more useful.

Afaik the turrets were restricted by fire groups sometime before release but that was changed, not sure why though.
 
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NeilF

NeilF
djamila said:
Afaik the turrets were restricted by fire groups sometime before release but that was changed, not sure why though.
Click to expand...
Interesting... Another thing I wasn't aware of! :)

djamila said:
Also being have to set individual turrets to TARGET ONLY or FIRE AT WILL and others to FORWARD FIRE (inside the fire group tab) would really make them more useful.
Click to expand...

Yes, being able to specify per turret if they are TARGET ONLY or FIRE AT WILL and others to FORWARD FIRE that would be useful, but would of course require a dedicated column/setting just for that!?
 
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SHADEVARI

S
NeilF said:
Yes, being able to specify per turret if they are TARGET ONLY or FIRE AT WILL and others to FORWARD FIRE that would be useful, but would of course require a dedicated column/setting just for that!?
Click to expand...

We currently have fire options 1 and 2. Just add A and T for turrets.

If a turret is set to 1 or 2, it is forward fire, if A or T it is automatic, FIRE AT WILL or TARGET ONLY respectively. ;-)
 
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NeilF

NeilF
djamila said:
We currently have fire options 1 and 2. Just add A and T for turrets.

If a turret is set to 1 or 2, it is forward fire, if A or T it is automatic, FIRE AT WILL or TARGET ONLY respectively. ;-)
Click to expand...

But then you'd lose the ability to turn turrets on/off by fire button, as described in the OP... Not sure which people see as the more useful :)
 

SHADEVARI

S
NeilF said:
But then you'd lose the ability to turn turrets on/off by fire button, as described in the OP... Not sure which people see as the more useful :)
Click to expand...

Personally I think that having to press the trigger for automatic turrets to fire seems wrong, at least until a time when there are player manned turrets. If you want to turn them off or change state, switch fire group. (This currently isn't in the game, but could be.)
 

NeilF

NeilF
djamila said:
Personally I think that having to press the trigger for automatic turrets to fire seems wrong, at least until a time when there are player manned turrets. If you want to turn them off or change state, switch fire group. (This currently isn't in the game, but could be.)
Click to expand...

Fair point... I concur! I'll amend the OP accordingly...
 

SHADEVARI

S
Thinking about this, it would be perfect being able to configure turrets individually, assuming turret accuracy will get fixed. I would gladly pay 20Mcr for beam turrets if I could switch them from fixed (FORWARD FIRE) to any of the automatic modes when changing the fire group and being able to activate/deactivate turrets as needed. This would also give some control over heat management when using turrets.
 

NeilF

NeilF
djamila said:
Thinking about this, it would be perfect being able to configure turrets individually, assuming turret accuracy will get fixed. I would gladly pay 20Mcr for beam turrets if I could switch them from fixed (FORWARD FIRE) to any of the automatic modes when changing the fire group and being able to activate/deactivate turrets as needed. This would also give some control over heat management when using turrets.
Click to expand...

So this would allow you to manually shoot your beams turrets forwards in firegroup 1. And if you flicked to firegroup 2, they would fire automatically/at will.
Code: 
Fire group      1      2
==========      =      = 
Beam Turret     1      A 
Beam Turret     1      A
 

NeilF

NeilF
^^ Actually makes sense! Your suggestion of allowing a turret's fire group allocation to simply be A (fire at will) or T (fire at target only), and 1 & 2 meaning fire forwards, means you can defined yourself a number of firegroups to achieve anything you want...

eg: So if I have 2 beam turrets and 2 cannon turrets I could simply define them as follows:-

Code: 
Fire group      1      2      3      4
==========      =      =      =      =
Beam Turret     1      T             T
Beam Turret     1      T             T
Cannon Turret                 T      T
Cannon Turret                 T      T

So group:-
1 - Manually fire forwards with beams.
2 - Turret with beams only (attack against shields)
3 - Turret with cannons only (atack against hull)
4 - Fire everything!



It's a wonderfully simple yet powerful overall solution. And only a tiny amount of work involved to introduce it I'd expect. Bit of work to the firegroup screen, and some new symbols for the HUD to let you know which turrets are enabled, and in which mode (eg: not active, fire forwards, fire at target, for at will).

I look forward to seeing it disappear, seemingly ignored, with all the others :(
 
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Adept

Adept
Fire-grouping turrets sounds very good. I was just thinking about this myself a few days back.

Being able to set some of them "fire at will" and tie some others to a trigger & target only is even better. Think of an Anaconda, with the medium hard points having laser turrets, and the large hard points carrying turreted cannons. You want to let the lasers keep up harassment, but only allow the cannons to fire when the enemy is well in range.
 

SHADEVARI

S
The easy part is probably adding the A* and T symbols to the HUD as well as removing the current global switch. The harder part is to add the coding so the turrets actually listen to the config and behave independently.

The hardest part might be to actually get the devs to read and like it. ;-)

* I selected A for FIRE AT WILL, which basically means (A)utomatic firing at will since F could be confused with FORWARD FIRE.
 
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NeilF

NeilF
djamila said:
The easy part is probably adding the A* and T symbols to the HUD as well as removing the current global switch. The harder part is to add the coding so the turrets actually listen to the config and behave independently.
Click to expand...
Well, the turrets already obey the system panel option, so the coding is there. The source "variable" for each turret simply needs to be changed from the now redundent status panel setting (would be nice to reduce the options on there), to instead look at the current fire group's setting for the turret to determine:-
- Am I not in it? Then don't fire.
- Am I set to 1, or 2 then fire forwards when firebutton 1 or 2 is pressed.
- Am I set to "A" then fire at will.
- AM I set to "T" then fire at target.




djamila said:
The hardest part might be to actually get the devs to read and like it. ;-)
Click to expand...
I fear most of these suggestions don't even get to your first base, yet alone have a chance of reaching your second.

It's frustrating as turrets at the moment are a bit of a mess. eg: The premise of having kinetic turrets is bizarre when they are always simply on!

The enhancement suggested in the OP is simple, and adds loads of logical control to turrents in a simple fashion... Fingers crossed it registers somewhere. But I'm not holding my breath :(
 
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NeilF

NeilF
Frenotx said:
Love the suggestion, op.
Click to expand...

Let's hope FD do to.

I was kitting my ship out last night, and of course kinetic turrets are available, but in reality are a total waste of time until such time as we can actually control them to fire when it favours them.

With the suggestion in the OP, you'd simlpy flick between fire groups according to situation... Done!
 

SHADEVARI

S
NeilF said:
Let's hope FD do to.
Click to expand...

Mike Evans said:
The turret management was always only half the implementation I originally designed. However we're aiming to get a change so that you have more fire modes to play with. Basically the new fire modes will be the same as before accept they're manual modes so that the turrets only fire when you press the trigger they're assigned too. In addition I think only automatically firing turrets that are in the current fire group for the other modes is a good idea and should give enough options for those that want to manage they're turrets more efficiently. Again though, not sure if and when we can get this in but I suspect it'll be part of what ever update we do to fix the turrets.
Click to expand...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=122482&page=7&p=1917792&viewfull=1#post1917792

I guess they do now. ;-)
 
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SHADEVARI

S
I really hope there will be *something* with 1.3 and changes and fixes later.

Can't await to finally use turrets to the full potential, I mean, it literary only is a firmware issue. ;-)
 
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