Speed Calculation

Mercury Shift

Mercury Shift
So, most likely it is already posted around here somewhere, but as I figured it out myself from testing in my Asp (and reading a tip from one of Pendra's posts), I figured I would share my resulting equation for all you fine folks to use, test, validate, wrap around a brick and chuck it through my canopy, whichever. So here goes:

Values that you will need:
X = Optimal Mass from your thrusters
Y = Total Mass of your ship (including any fuel or cargo)
Z = Max top speed from your ship's spec
P = number of pips diverted to engines

This is in Excel format as that is where I created it:

Exact formula: =("Z"*LOG("X","Y"))*(("P"+4)/8)-5.2

Obviously replacing the "Z", "X", ect with cell references for the input data. Also, that -5.2 was a correction I added to get more correlation between my calculated results and in game actuals (my calculations were between 4 and 7 speed higher, but the average was closer to 5). This correction may only be relevant to my setup or just the Asp, so you may see some variation.

Also of note (at least I didn't know about it), the pip settings did NOT change my boost speed in any way. That seemed kind of random anyways, like it would top out somewhere in a 12 speed window (340-352).

Thanks to Pendra, his comment elsewhere pointed me to the LOG function to account for higher thrust to mass ratios. If proven out well enough across all ships, perhaps the ED Shipyard CMDR could use it to add a top speed calc for the builder.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Mercury Shift said:
S
Also of note (at least I didn't know about it), the pip settings did NOT change my boost speed in any way. That seemed kind of random anyways, like it would top out somewhere in a 12 speed window (340-352).
Click to expand...

Boost is highly repeatable, not random, it's just that the duration of the boost isn't always enough to reach peak speed from below a certain point, so multiple boosts, necessitating a better distributor or more pips in ENG, may be needed in a short span.
 

Mercury Shift

Mercury Shift
Morbad said:
Boost is highly repeatable, not random, it's just that the duration of the boost isn't always enough to reach peak speed from below a certain point, so multiple boosts, necessitating a better distributor or more pips in ENG, may be needed in a short span.
Click to expand...

I suppose it could have been the Asp too, it seems to have a really wonky boost. Takes a minor bit longer to get up in speed, then near the upper end it kind of slowly ticks up to the peak and immediately turns around and starts ticking down. Then the deceleration slows down alot about halfway back to regular top speed.

I tested from the top speed at all pip settings and read the highest number I saw flash by. With the Asp, it doesn't hit a plateau and stay for a few seconds, speeds seem to be constantly changing.
 

Krepose Gavayne

Krepose Gavayne
I missed this thread until you bumped it. I've noted down the calculation so will test it in my Python when next playing, but it might be a few days. Have you tested it on the cheaper, smaller ships?
 

Mercury Shift

Mercury Shift
Krepose Gavayne said:
I missed this thread until you bumped it. I've noted down the calculation so will test it in my Python when next playing, but it might be a few days. Have you tested it on the cheaper, smaller ships?
Click to expand...

No, not yet, but I will be testing it on a Vulture probably tonight. I have a Viper in storage that I may make a detour by to test as well.
 

Sniffy75

Sniffy75
I'll be testing this in my viper shortly.
From my experience the number of pips in engine affects how quickly the boost capacitors recharge, therefore you can boost more often with 4 pips. In fact, with a decent distributor I can sometimes boost again before fully decelerating, i'll pay more attention today and see if the top speed is any better.
 

Sniffy75

Sniffy75
Alright, results in for my Viper and the formula needs work.

Ive got B3 thrusters so my optimal mass is 110, my current mass is 107.5 and when I plug all that in with the theoretical top speed of 320 and 4 pips it gives me a top speed of 316.3, however in the game i'm sitting on 322.

I removed the -5.2 from the formula and this gives me 321.5 which is a lot closer to the reality.

I then did some more testing.
With 0 pips the calculation says 160.76, in game it's 201
With 1 Pips the calculation says 200.98, in game it's 231
With 2 pips the calculation says 241.17, in game it's 261
With 3 Pips the calculation says 281.37, in game it's 291

As noted before, boost speed is unaffected by pips and maxed out at 401 regardless of pip settings. Also boosting again before fully decelerating does not affect top boost speed.

I believe that the quality of thrusters plays a definite role in the top speed you can achieve beyond the optimal mass factor and If i wanted to spend half a million on some A3 thrusters i'd get a different result again.

I've got an asp stored a few lightyears away, so i might pop on over and test the formula against that as well.
 
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Sniffy75

Sniffy75
Some more data to help, this is what I got in my asp which i'm outfitting for exploration so the thrusters have been downgraded to 4D's.
Optimal Mass - 315
Current Mass - 345.8

Calculated speed / Actual Speed
(without the -5.2 in the formula):

0 Pips - 123 / 118
1 Pips - 153 / 150
2 Pips - 184 / 182
3 Pips - 215 / 214
4 Pips - 246 / 246

Just for interest, I purchased a sidey, left the thrusters as standard but stripped out some stuff so that the mass is only 35 and got the following results:

Calculated speed / Actual Speed
(without the -5.2 in the formula):

0 Pips - 119 / 102
1 Pips - 149/ 132
2 Pips - 179/ 163
3 Pips - 209/ 193
4 Pips - 239/ 224

Hope all this helps, but it's looking like it may be a different calculation for each ship and thruster combination.
 

Mercury Shift

Mercury Shift
Sniffy - thanks for testing and reporting the data. I too found the formula to be off for the Vulture. Like ridiculously off. Not sure if its in the calc for the extra speed from higher thrust to mass ratios or in the pip calc. I think that if it is in the pip calc part, then it is indicating that top speed between 0 - 4 pips is a set window for each ship. The Thrust/Mass boost could still change that, but my setup for the Vulture had a speed range of 200 at 0 pips and 221 at 4. The Asp worked out to be almost right on each pip=1/8 of the max speed potential, with a base of half that you couldn't go less than. Obviously this differs greatly with the Vulture's "window".

Anybody who has the math skills to try and solve this, please feel free to chip in here. I will keep working on it myself, but these observations have thrown me back to the drawing board.
 

Mercury Shift

Mercury Shift
Sniffy75 said:
Some more data to help, this is what I got in my asp which i'm outfitting for exploration so the thrusters have been downgraded to 4D's.
Optimal Mass - 315
Current Mass - 345.8

Calculated speed / Actual Speed
(without the -5.2 in the formula):

0 Pips - 123 / 118
1 Pips - 153 / 150
2 Pips - 184 / 182
3 Pips - 215 / 214
4 Pips - 246 / 246
Click to expand...

It worked pretty well for your Asp I see, the variance of only a few speed I see in my calcs too, but you even have downgraded thrusters. I agree, this really looks to be ship dependent.
 

SirAdelaide

SirAdelaide
In the proposed equation, (P+A) /B gives a linear increase in speed from 50% at zero pips, to 100% at 4 pips.

This works for Asp, where zero pips gives 48% of top speed, but not for Vulture, where zero pips gives 62% of max speed.

The linear relationship holds, but not the assumption that zero pips gives 50% speed.
 

SirAdelaide

SirAdelaide
The log part of the proposed equation currently gives a 1.6% modifier to the Asp results, and 4.3% to the Sidewinder. Equivalent to 4 and 10 m/s respectively.

If the effect is tripled, the calc error is reduced.
 

Krepose Gavayne

Krepose Gavayne
Here are the values for my Python. I have not tried your equation, these are simply what I saw on screen.

X = 1080, and values are arranged as Pips/Speed/Boost. All readings were taken from full pips moving down to zero pips, so the later readings will have a slightly lower total ship mass.


For Y = 568:
4.0 ; 243 ; 317
3.5 ; 231 ; 314
3.0 ; 219 ; 311
2.5 ; 207 ; 308
2.0 ; 196 ; 306
1.5 ; 184 ; 303
1.0 ; 172 ; 300
0.5 ; 160 ; 297
0.0 ; 148 ; 295


I then refuelled and filled my cargo hold, so for Y = 828:
4.0 ; 237 ; 309
3.0 ; 214 ; 303
2.0 ; 191 ; 298
1.0 ; 167 ; 293
0.0 ; 144 ; 287


Later, I upgraded the Power Distributor, and for Y = 616:
4.0 ; 242 ; 315
3.5 ; 230 ; 313
3.0 ; 218 ; 310
2.5 ; 207 ; 307
2.0 ; 195 ; 304
1.5 ; 183 ; 302
1.0 ; 171 ; 299
0.5 ; 159 ; 296
0.0 ; 147 ; 293


I only took readings once, and for the Boost it was apparent that we are not seeing the decimal places, as some values lingered on the maximum whereas some others flickered so quickly it was sometimes hard to read.

EDIT: I also waited for the new max speed to settle and the capacitor to fill completely before trying boost after reducing the pips.
 
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SirAdelaide

SirAdelaide
Ok, so I've been doing some modelling, and can confirm the following:

1) Speed varies linearly with pips
2) In some ships, 0 pips gives 60% max speed, in other it gives less.

So, you could modify the equation to:
Z4 = 4 pip top speed
P = pips diverted to engines
Z0 = 0 pip top speed
Top speed = Z4*(1-(Z4-Z0)*(4-P)/4)

Z0 appears to be = 0.6*Z4, unless mass is over optimal mass. Then the multiplier declines, but we don't have enough data to fit a curve.

We don't have an equation for top speed Z4 yet but it is probably base on mass, and thruster module class.
 

Mercury Shift

Mercury Shift
With how well Pendra's suggestion to use the LOG function for thrust/mass ratios fit the Asp at multiple mass and thrust values, I find that part of the formula to be pretty close. It seems the pip part to be causing the variance between ships. But as you noted, it still seems to be linear, just not between ships.

I think we need to get some data for all ships if we are going to solve this. And even then I am starting to suspect that it's not going to be one formula, but instead one for each ship.
 

clinton

C
Keep the question simple first. Let's work with 4 pips, no boost, and just try to get a correct formula for basic speed.

Based on what ED have done for things like shield strength, it's likely the formula will be linear or piecewise linear. People thought the shield strength formula was a log function initially but in the end ED pointed out it was just piecewise linear.
 
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