Squadrons and Proper colonization mechanics

[Mohrgan]

As I have said throughout this thread any PCM should come with a high cost, high risk, and a way to block the colonization mechanics. I like the idea that colonization be handed out as a Squadron size mission as welll as the distance of colonization be determined by a new stat “Net Worth “ that is determined by all of all the assets the minor faction controls.
Anything that is truly meaningful comes with challenges the gameplay mechanics I am suggesting will be and should be challenging but that is what will make it more rewarding and meaningful.

None of that addresses concerns over having player's and group's hands in the cookie jar. It's a series of platitudes. Fundamentally the BGS needs insulation from the players. Once players/groups can plunk portions of the BGS down in random places, you offer advantages to those in large groups over individuals and small groups. It pushes the BGS from the overall backbone of the galaxy's economy, into the forefront of group competition. That is what PP is for.

That idea of a 'Net Worth' stat is just a euphemism for 'most members'. Your definition of meaningful comes off a bit self serving. I see another layer to the BGS as just as challenging, as random player chosen positioning and cult head counts.

Find away to accept the BGS as the boss, and I will talk, but trying to get the keys to the castle is going to be a problem for me.

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

Anything depending upon the "net worth" of a squadron/guild/lulzbunny collective will actively be abused

"Hey - Drunks of Sol have announced they are expanding! Let's all join up and prep the expansion, get them a Carrier and the group committed to Action X in System Y - and then immediately dump them for the lulz!"

The “Net Worth” I suggested would be based on the minor factions as I said.

 

[Mohrgan]

When we had carriers in Q4, it was still questionable as to why squadrons was needed. Now that carriers are out, squadrons are even more pointless, UNLESS there is some new content we don't know about.

As far as I understood, the content would be in-game communication tools to organize your Squad, and tags to recognize your affiliation. This has been high on the wish list around here for a while. Although, each time this has been brought to a consensus, someone throws in a little territory grab idea, and we go around the pike again.

 

[lenna]

It is not blindness that drives my advocacy for gameplay that takes advantage of group gameplay.

What you are talking about is less about group gameplay and more about 4X gameplay - the latter is a toxic environment for mixed environment gameplay.

Group gameplay is already facilitated through wing missions and to a degree PP. Squadrons themselves is essentially just a refinement of that, especially if members of the same squadron support a specific PP faction.

At no point should any individual or group, whether via squadrons or otherwise, have any direct control or more influence over the BGS than is currently permitted. Leave player driven expansion mechanics to PP which should be limited to systems which have already been populated by the BGS. All population expansions should remain firmly in the hands of the BGS, and PP should have minimal to no effect over that IMO.

 

[Quantis Trap]

The problem I have with squadrons is that is it not new interesting game play, but instead is new infrastructure like so many of the other infrastructure features which have been added which we still question to this day.

I'm doubtful that the new forms of identification and communication offered in squadrons is going to enable new game play when commanders have already been using tried and tested external forms of identification and communication such as Discord and other third party tools for a while now.

I'm hoping that Frontier dropped carriers and picked up the new mining and exploration features because they finally realized that they have to deliver new playable features instead of just new infrastructure! I hope that Frontier as even more actualy playable features, not just infrastructure, to add in Q4 or soon after which they haven't told us about.

 

[lenna]

The problem I have with squadrons is that is it not new interesting game play, but instead is new infrastructure like so many of the other features which have been added which we question to this day.

The focus and desire for player driven 4X gameplay amongst certain quarters of this forum is part of the problem not the solution. In essence, they do not want an Elite game but rather some alternative to EvE or possibly the X-Series. Those that are after that type of gameplay should stick with those games for it (EvE for the on-line variant, X-Series for the solo variant).

Squadrons and carriers should not be used as a vehicle to add new gameplay per se but rather simply serve as tools and infrastructure to be used.

As for the existing features being questionable - IMO that seems to be the common cry from those looking for player driven 4X gameplay in some shape or form, and IMO FD should do everything they can to ignore that element of the community. If they can discourage it then that would be better still.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

I feel if colonization was handed out like a Squadron size mission then commanders could create construction squadrons and move like a nomadic construction squadron moving from minor faction to minor faction looking for the highest payouts to do the job. And if colonization is based off a minor factions Net Worth then small minor faction could grow larger over time and large minor faction could become empires as well maybe even new superpower in the Galaxy hence growing Power Play options.
Having proper colonization mechanics or (PCM) in the game would make elite dangerous more dynamic and evolving game.
That sounds like a win,win scenario to me.

I actually agree with my Federal opponent here. Moreover, rather than remove gameplay for others, or create empires anyone would need to fear, it is a way out around the problem of an increasingly crowded bubble with PMFs, and an associated increase in conflict. (Not helped by many PMFs preferring to be in the busier areas)

A colonization mechanic would drive expansion outward (which makes total sense, lore wise. Why fight over a limited number of systems/stations, when the galaxy is so big? Upon conflict, you would expect a faction to find a place elsewhere not yet populated, especially if they weren't terribly belligerent). It would make it also interesting to settle your home at the fringe, to give you more colonization opportunities.

Even PP is mostly about consolidation as everything that is profitable is already taken

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I respectfully disagree with you,I feel that the BGS is the backbone of elite dangerous.

I respectfully respect your respect, and glad we can disagree without degenerating to name-calling, finger-pointing and foot-stomping.

I'm curious to know how you come to the conclusion that the BGS is the "backbone" of the game, when we cannot even "join" the factions we support, receive no recompense for supporting them beyond what missions pay or what bounties we may collect. Bare minimum, at least a couple of the Power Play Powers we can pledge offer some sort of benefit, be it reduced rebuy costs, increased commodities, bonuses to bounties, exploration data, or the availability of ships in stations that are not available to other players of other or no affiliation.

 

[Nadreck]

I've wanted to build a personal base somewhere for a long time. It probably wouldn't be game-breaking if it was limited to one base per player, and kept small.

But it's probably not going to happen.

However, we may shortly be given an alternative. Carriers are coming (hopefully), and while they are likely to be tied to squadrons, it seems that squadrons of one will be permitted. So a player can create his owm squadron and get his own Carrier - which can then be used as a mobile base. Because it's not a "permanent" addition to a system, it will be more accessible.

And if so, then I'd like to re-float the notion of a "Pocket Carrier", a Large-pad dockable ship that can carry a few Small-pad ships inside it (with a Small pad on its topside). As it's a normal ship rather than a megaship, it could do normal-ship things: including landing on a planet, and then deploying small ships to explore. Instant planetary base! You could even take a small ship and go back to fetch another if you like.

ANd meanwhile you could park your "real" Carrier in orbit overhead. Instant station! And we know that Carriers will be upgradable, and given the existence of a commodities market on the Gnosis, it's not unreasonable to suppose that this might be avainable as a Carrier upgrade. Combine that with some sort of surface-mining activity, and you have a pop-up plantetary base being run from a landed Pocket Carrier, shuttling mined metals up to an orbiting Carrier for selling.

All done with mobile assets, no permanent structures.

 

[Aashenfox]

OP has merit, details aren't important, FD would do whatever they wanted in that respect, and that is probably for the better. Guild created and 'managed' assets/colonies is a great idea, if implemented in a way that synergises with the current system. Kudos also to OP for patience in the fist few pages of the thread. 400bn systems guys (and gals ), I make that at least 3 trillion planets if we go for average bodies per solar system of only 8. I'd say there's space to make it a little more interesting.

 

[Pittdog]

Reading this thread as a new player of one month.. it seems a lot of players here hates Eve so much? Surprising considering elite is quite similar in small ways? I started playing a free account Eve last year, watched YouTube tutorials for a bit and tried to be a solo explorer, I was hooked! Casually scanning and finding data sites in safe space, then trying to find ways to avoid gankers in zero security space when I wanted a bit more adrenaline..

In less than a month I got hundreds of millions of isk from selling discoveries and got myself a nice shiny ship for heavy duty pve combat.

But people here seems to think Eve is some kind of an unforgivable toxic enviroment for solo players and no small amounts of mechanic from it will work for ED? Dont get me wrong, Im loving the game so far, but I feel like this game needs a bit more depth in the social aspects as it feels a bit sterile so far.

 

[lenna]

it seems a lot of players here hates Eve so much? Surprising considering elite is quite similar in small ways?

4X type gameplay has no place in an MMO environment IMO, EvE is essentially that kind of game but ED is not and should not be directed in that direction either.

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

Is it time to start this conversation up again I think so

 

[Captain Willard]

NO to players starting colonies. So yeah, close this thread again.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

NO to players starting colonies. So yeah, close this thread again.

Im sorry but thats basically what the new BGS changes are.

Squadrons will give us the ability to use in game chatter and communication. Then later we get the fleet ships to support the gameplay.

WHat you are saying no to. Was what was revealed today.

Its already happening.

All thats left is putting people on the same playing field when it happens.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Is it time to start this conversation up again I think so

Nope, still not time yet.

Maybe after the last live stream. But probably not even then.

 

[Roybe]

Squadrons are just going to be command and control centers for the BGS....they will add no PVP to the game, they will add no base building, or economic additions....

Im sorry but thats basically what the new BGS changes are.

Squadrons will give us the ability to use in game chatter and communication. Then later we get the fleet ships to support the gameplay.

WHat you are saying no to. Was what was revealed today.

Its already happening.

All thats left is putting people on the same playing field when it happens.

Actually, what you're not paying attention to is that it is now going to be much harder for player groups to affect the BGS and maintain influence in high enough levels, over the systems they are able to influence to cause an expansion to occur...the larger the number of systems, the harder it will be to influence.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Squadrons are just going to be command and control centers for the BGS....they will add no PVP to the game, they will add no base building, or economic additions....



Actually, what you're not paying attention to is that it is now going to be much harder for player groups to affect the BGS and maintain influence in high enough levels, over the systems they are able to influence to cause an expansion to occur...the larger the number of systems, the harder it will be to influence.

You're right. People like mobius thats expanded beyond belief in colonia just shot themselves in the foot. CCN too.

However, there still the chance for weighted succession to happen here. Which would still allow it to exist throughout the modes. But Open would be more efficient with the added risk. Which means, if you really want to win. You'd have to put yourself at risk vs the other people in open too.

If they can make that change then everything would work just fine.

 

[Tarman]

Squadrons are just going to be command and control centers for the BGS....they will add no PVP to the game, they will add no base building, or economic additions....



Actually, what you're not paying attention to is that it is now going to be much harder for player groups to affect the BGS and maintain influence in high enough levels, over the systems they are able to influence to cause an expansion to occur...the larger the number of systems, the harder it will be to influence.

That's the impression I got, that a tiny little fiefdom could be much better run by PGs than a sprawling empire due to all the new stuff coming down the pipe, and it's still not "our" groups but folks that we adopted. I like the looks of the new changes so far but I don't see it leading to EVE with better spaceship operation. It's gonna be its own thing.

 

[Captain Willard]

Your faction Wordly is the perfect target. Thanx for sharing. OH and so sorry. I don't waste time in open, go for it.
Don't be mad, I fixed 10 systems and controlled 8 when FD dropped a PMF in the middle of it. They are on xbox.
Being a solo player that would take all my time to fend off a PMF. Deal with it.