SRV DRIVE-Assist OFF (and counter rolling)

Boff'in

Boff'in
I see many posts about the fine control about FLIGHT assist off, but not DRIVE assist. Even on youtube, I search for "drive assist off elite dangerous" and all the hits are for FLIGHT assist. I think most people MUST have figured this out and thought it's so obvious as to not report it.
I made a post a year back about the benefits of Drive-Assist OFF, that got derailed/overlooked so I thought I'd try again because I have a new toy that I'd like other commanders' advice on - counter rolling on the steering bind.

Bearing in mind I'm that NOT that great an SRV driver nor some expert, I can't launch these things into orbit, or do 95% of the cool stuff that is on youtube. I just drive for materials, exploring vista's, take some time off from flying, and maybe a mission or two. I'm very wibbly wobbly when things don't' go to plan and get frustrated when I'm just thrusting upwards and no forwards.

When I went looking for guardian blueprints I was going nuts with the SRV's throttle never being where I wanted it to be.
I remembered the early days of SRV and I found some dumb mouse and keyboard WASD setup that was not favorable for my HOTAS.
But I started to tinker with my binds, and sure enough, I found them. Every time I landed near a guardian site, I moved my hotas slightly out of the way to bring my mouse and keyboard back into focus.

Now after my HOTAS has died and I got relegated/upgraded to mouse and keyboard for ship controls.
Since that point, ship controls have been mapped to WASD, complete with thrust up bound to space, and "thrust down" bound to CTRL-key (I never got into using the 'c' button)
I've seen my combat rank escalate fast since that point as well (although I'm constantly at a loss of where my throttle is, not having the physical positioning of the HOTAS and my nervous system's proprioception to instinctively tell me where it via my arm position.
And with Odyssey on the way, looks like I'm set to go.

SRV Basics
SURFACE CONDITIONS - Surface type and Gravity.
With any SRV driving, you have to pay attention to Gravity and surface type, this affects how long you can be airborne and how much traction your tires have when you land.

Rocky Surface - more traction, less spin.
Icy Surface - hardly any traction, lots of spins.
High-G Planets, more pull downward force, more traction, meaning harder turns without spin and less time being airborne
Low-G planets, less downward force, poorer traction, more spin on your turns, and more time being airborne.

Skimming
Sweetspot for driving the SRV is not driving at all it is actually flying, or as I like to call it, skimming. It's a well-known driving tactic.
Anything less than a 0.3G allows you to have 4 pips to the thrusters, and go full throttle into a ramped jump and once you are off the ground, you are in now in a gliding arc to land back down on the ground
If your pitch the "bow" down just a tad 15/30 degrees and the main thrusters are pointing backward and downwards, so you can propel yourself forwards and upwards. WIth controlled bursts, you can skim along the surface of a planet without the need of dealing with the terrain at all.
Just remember to land on your softly on your front wheels.



Drive-Assist OFF
This does on the important thing, it deactivates SRV from maintaining the throttle in a certain vector, much like the ship.
This means you have to manually hold down the throttle to give your SRV some gas (well it is a helium/hydrogen to fusion system right?).
And as soon as you let go of the throttle-button, the SRV comes to rest from Surface resistance and Gravity, so the SRV behaves like an ordinary car.
So, binding WASD to
W - throttle up,
S - throttle down.
A - steer left
D - steer right.
Space-bar, thrust up.
Have the mouse on a near-permanent head-look
DRIVE-ASSIST-OFF
basically, you just turned your SRV into a first-person shooter, but added spins, especially on low gravity planets with ice....grrr.

MULTIPLE BINDS Roll and Steer.
Drive assist is supposed to keep you pinned down to the ground by actively using thrusters to keep you pinned down.

Now curiously enough, Fdev allows multiple binding for steering and rolling - at the same time
So, as you know, driving a normal car on earth, as you lean into the bend to give more traction to the.
Now, this is (obviously) a gradient scale with regards to planetoids of varying gravity.

But it does allow you to bind Roll left and Steer left to the same key.
W - Throttle up
S - Throttle down.
A - Steer left + Roll left
D - Steer right + Roll Right

This gives that instinctive lean into the turn, and it feels very similar to drive assist on.

An alternative binds that didn't plan out too well
W - Throttle Up + Pitch Backwards
This put you into instant wheelies that quickly put you onto the roof of the srv, with forward momentum, ergo cartwheels you forwards again.

But what about Pitching back down as you accelerate to maintain pressure on your forward tires, feels like a near-perfect win, but sadly not.
W - throttle up + pitch forward
You aren't powering the SRV thruster in the direction of the "bow", you are just controlling the spin of your SRV, your trajectory is totally unaffected by the SRV pitching and rolling (not counting your main thrusters).
So if you hit a rock at high-speeds and launch yourself, with all that forwards momentum, you facepalm the SRV and as soon as the front section of the SRV catches the ground this can send cartwheeling fast.

Counter-Rolling
This morning (due to a reinstall under steam on a new HD and having to fix all my binding again.....),
I'm experimenting with counter rolling, so leaning away from the turn, keeping both sets of tire on the ground at the same time during a turn.
A-Steer left + roll RIGHT
D-Steer right + roll LEFT
Tapping gently still turns you normally.
but holding it down HARD (anything more than a second) put you in a 180 spin (ah nooo) but it holds you down to the ground, and the result is

I just did a fully perfect U-turn and full stop, effectively a classic handbrake turn.

Now This has applications.

Bearing in mind I'm very early into experimenting with this combination, and it's is on a rocky surface (which has the most traction) counteracted by the low gravity 0.06g.
As I said, it's a gradient, and you have to change your driving style, so leaning into a turn and leaning out of the turn may have a better application to different driving conditions.
But I have to admit It's completely disorientated me with regards to navigating the steep rises as I'm rolling all over the place, and I haven't a clue with key I'm pressing or the result I expect :D

I'd thought I'd get a discussion going on driving styles and set ups
 
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Deleted member 182079

D
I always use drive assist off - only use On if going for prolonged trips without having to stop, I compare it to cruise control in a car.

Using an Xbox pad though, would hate the digital input of a keyboard. With a pad it feels pretty natural, like any other arcadey racer (without the gravity model of course).
 

Alec Turner

Alec Turner
As someone who's circumnavigated 3 planets and now has over 0.20 LS of distance travelled in the SRV I'm really interested in this discussion. Alas I'm somewhat busy this weekend with RL plus tomorrow is the 6th race in the 8WD SRV Endurance Championship but when I have time I'll give this a proper read and get back to you.

For now I'll just say that I've never bothered with Drive Assist, never really saw the point of it (especially when I'm trying to flive at speeds around 100m/s). Your point about having to hold the accelerate key down is interesting tho'. I use a HOTAS so I don't have to hold anything down. Maybe that's why FD implemented Drive Assist? With a view to helping keyboard players where you can hold down a key to dial in the speed you want and then leave it. With a HOTAS I'm simply positioning the throttle at the speed I want (generally max). You also make some mention of drive assist keeping you pinned down. I'm happy to be proven wrong but I don't think that's accurate. I think any function of the thrusters on the wheels to assist in low g or otherwise stabilise the SRV applies equally with DA on or off. AFAIK the only difference between drive assist on and off is how the throttle inputs relate to the rotational drive mechanism of the wheels (either directly with it off or as a kind of "cruise control" speed selection with it on).

Whoops, I'm supposed to be busy ... imagine how much I'll write when I have more time!
 
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Arioch

Arioch
ObiW said:
I always use drive assist off - only use On if going for prolonged trips without having to stop, I compare it to cruise control in a car.

Using an Xbox pad though, would hate the digital input of a keyboard. With a pad it feels pretty natural, like any other arcadey racer (without the gravity model of course).
Click to expand...
Same here - the default Xbox pad controls put the accelerator on the right trigger for analogue input, which means I can slowly creep along if needs be by gently pulling the trigger; very handy when mountain climbing!
 

Ydiss

Ydiss
The part I'm most interested in is combining roll with turning for more down force. I'm definitely trying that next time.
 

Crank Larson

Crank Larson
Ydiss said:
The part I'm most interested in is combining roll with turning for more down force.
Click to expand...

When you have wheels and jets tied to the same key (or input), then this should automatically happen when you turn. The only thing to be careful off there is that when you are airborne, turning is roll so you need to ensure when landing that you don't turn too soon (as you want to land with front wheels slightly dipped into the terrain, but aligned with it).
 

Hooplah

Hooplah
You are getting too scientific about the game. It is a game. Go to work for NASA to get humans to Mars and back.
Meanwhile there are times in ED where running around in an SRV FA off/on and knowing when to use it is part of
mastering the play style with prospecting, Guardian and Thargoid sites. You thought one works for all?

Think out of the box. The Devs did.
 

Vetinari

V
Its all about the throttle.

You can easily do 180s, 360s, J turns and crappy not really 'handbrake' turns just by manipulating the throttle. As far as I can tell the handbrake is universal not back wheels only.

Turn hard, give a boost so the wheels grip & push then lose grip and spin and let go, balance between just before wheel spin and just after wheel spin for desired effect, repeat or increase holding as the vehicle 'lines up' with how you want it and then rev off, or more normally stope dead and open fire on the mat that was on the other side of the tree, fumarole whatever thats now directly in front of you.

The tall fumaroles are good places to practice, spin around them to get the mat.

Ice and gravel easiest to spin out, same as RL, rocky and whatnot quite good. Approx 1.3-1.6G handles the same as car in 1G so can practice there if need be....but easier with less gravity and more slide.

So maybe get a controller and plugin? Even if just for SRV it will make all the difference, I could do it with keyboard 20 years ago but not now, I dont think it will be anywhere near as responsive.....maybe mouse wheel would if held position as current 'input' for throttle?
 

Cmdr Nemo

Cmdr Nemo
I utilize a Warthog throttle and stick, both my ship and srv configs are the same. Thus when flying one or driving the other my throttle and stick movements cause the same effects. the only difference is when the srv is on a surface, the pitch doesn't work, duh. But once air born, I have pitch, roll and even yaw.
FYI: for a smother landing, adjust your srv so that all wheels will contact as close to simultaneously as possible, then just as you touch the surface throttle up a wee bit. When air born, the wheels stop, by stepping on the gas a wee bit just as you touch down, engages the wheels. However, too much will cause you to spin out. Practice makes perfect.
 

Deleted member 182079

D
Alec Turner said:
Your point about having to hold the accelerate key down is interesting tho'. I use a HOTAS so I don't have to hold anything down. Maybe that's why FD implemented Drive Assist?
Click to expand...
It's like that on a gamepad also - With DA OFF I have to hold the right trigger (default mapping and wouldn't want it any other way) to accelerate, just like in a normal car. I suppose DA ON is simulating the throttle of a HOTAS - if I wanted to have the same 'feel' of throttle control as you I'd have to bung DA ON also. The benefit of the gamepad is that the trigger button is analogue, so slowly creeping forward/backward is possible as opposed to digital i.e. either full throttle or none.

The other bit that's different is - with DA OFF, the left trigger is acting as the brake pedal, whereas with DA ON it's to reduce the speed, and transfer into reverse. Like a throttle. To me with years and years of driving game experience it feels quite unnatural, however it can be more comfortable if you want to proceed at a very steady pace (eg. when using the external camera while keep driving the SRV).

(probably way too much detail in this post.....sorry)
 

Stealthie

Stealthie
Main reason I dislike DA-on is because seems to remove almost all throttle sensitivity and immediately accelerates you from "driving through glue" speed to "fired out of a catapult" speed with nothing between.

As for how I drive the SRV, I steer with the rudder and control the SRV thrusters with my joystick - basically, exactly the same controls I use for flying a ship.
It's awkward at first but it's worth figuring out because it means you can have an intuitive set of thruster controls on the joystick (which is important becaus you need intuitive controls most when dealing with unforseen situations) and it means you can use the joystick to control the turret while still having basic driving controls.

Personally, I don't think you can say you can drive an SRV until you can go to a Geo' POI and confidently drive around, shooting the mat's with the cannon and bunny-hopping into the air to collect them without stopping.
If you can't do this, make the effort to visit Geo's POIs until you can.
 

Alec Turner

Alec Turner
Juts had time to read a bit more of the OP. What you refer to as "skimming" is widely known as "flyving" in the SRV community - a cross between flying and driving and frankly the only way to cover distance or race in the SRV unless you're on a world with significant gravity. Keeping the rhythm going over the course of several kilometres at full throttle you can easily attain speeds in excess of 100m/s.

iIBP3Ve.png


So many videos I could use to illustrate this but roll the dice and today's choice is ...


And here's some more flyving under race conditions ...

 
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Alec Turner

Alec Turner
Oh sorry, and you also asked about setups. As mentioned I use a HOTAS. The main stick's roll and pitch movement performs the same function as the ship, rolling and pitching the SRV when it's in the air. I use the main stick twist yaw control for wheel steering (it takes a little bit of getting used to but is logical and provides analog ground steering input). In the air of course this does nothing since there's no yaw control for the SRV (a function which therefore has to be performed using a combination of pitch and roll). The throttle is mapped to forward only throttle input (with a reverse button) as in my ship.

P.S. and I use a TrackIR head tracking device which means that when I'm tilted down 85° for extreme flyving I can still look up through the roof of the SRV and see where I'm going.
 
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Florenus

Florenus
I'm using M+KB (just can't switch to HOTAS for some reason - doesn't feel right for me) and for SRV and I've mapped throttle to mouse wheel in 10% increments. For me this works great. I don't have to press anything constantly, and it works kind of like throttle should.
 
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