Da Jingles, comparing SC with ED
Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
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Good video, though I'm confused as it sounded like he said they had spent the last ten years developing technology for allowing players to travel on elevators and in and out of vehicles without a loading screen.
See this? i'm not sure but i think that's gone up by about 15,000 in a week. Maybe more, the last time i looked which was no more than a couple of weeks ago it was at a bit over 3 Million Star Citizen's, not 3.1 Million.
See this? i'm not sure but i think that's gone up by about 15,000 in a week. Maybe more, the last time i looked which was no more than a couple of weeks ago it was at a bit over 3 Million Star Citizen's, not 3.1 Million.
Its not that meaningful anyway. That's not actually paying citizens. Its accounts, including free fly. We don't know how many are converted into paying citizens and how many refund. You think that number has ever gone down when someone refunded? Then there are alt accounts and free accounts that come with a package (like the ones that came with AMD graphics cards many years ago).
We have some info from Turbulent many years ago that the number of actual paying customers was a hell of a lot less than that number shows.
CIG also released some numbers last year i think it was, but yeah, not going to trust their numbers since their number for "Star Citizens" is misleading in the first place.
I mean, two of those "Citizens" are me.
I watch this guy for his World of Warships content, he's very good with that, he makes his content from a Royal Navy veterans perspective and a war ship enthusiast.
I had no idea he has SC and its good to see him give it a go, his perspective of the inside of the Javelin was interesting.
And he is right, i have said this my self for a new player the game makes no effort to help them understand it and their surroundings and it is a complex game, tho no more complex than ED and i leaned that without an in game tutorial, i used google.
Right, the number of active players right now is probably in the 10's of thousands, tho i'm not talking about the numbers them selves, i'm taliking about the amount its grown in a week, its still attracting new blood in numbers. if they end up active accounts or not, the marketing is working.
Yep… we need to take into consideration that SC attracted some EVE players, so chances are that they have at least 3 accounts per player (one or two to park it in the market hub, one lawful toon for high-sec scouting and their main toon)
I watch this guy for his World of Warships content, he's very good with that, he makes his content from a Royal Navy veterans perspective and a war ship enthusiast.
I had no idea he has SC and its good to see him give it a go, his perspective of the inside of the Javelin was interesting.
And he is right, i have said this my self for a new player the game makes no effort to help them understand it and their surroundings and it is a complex game, tho no more complex than ED and i leaned that without an in game tutorial, i used google.
He did some SC content back in 2013 and kind of lost interest due to slow development progress. Also Scott Manley used to do some content about SC but was sadly harrased by fans for not saying enough nice things about it or something.
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Same as in fashion nothing is ever new anymore. Whatever you come up with is basically an adjusted version of an old idea. It might be novel for a time but new, yeah not so much. Going at your post in reverse.
Has space sims been under representated? Or is it rather that space sims, for all the efforts the industry has offered failed to return sufficient profits to make companies make the decision to keep going? Elite is profitable for sure but X4 even tho it certainly has earned its production cost plus bonus somehow failed to become the new sensation its company probably expected it to be. Theres all kinds of reasons for that but observed from a distance X4 offers a lot of things that were previously unheard of.
And it still didnt make it...why?
Apart from people finding reasons to turn their heads away the simple truth will be that potential customers for this kind of game probably are not as numerous. I dont have a number but there is a direct link between potential customers and profit. There are perceived failures from other genres which never appeased the fanbase but still took in hundreds of millions despite them not being a "hit". Its very possible that Space simulation fans are a dying breed or just a small clique compared to the BR crowd and open world genre.
You can only sell the same thing in a different skin so often before even the last person catches on and stops. In order to keep going companies reinvent the same old thing with a new twist. Graphics were the driving force for a long time but we have now approached foto-realistic game graphics so new inventions and productions have trouble justifying the cost when the average person cant even recognize the effort anymore. When you talk about "RPG clones" or "open world type games" its probably the companies trying to combine successful past formulas to create something novel. The generated hype during production and in the last marketing stretch are a good indicator at what people want.
People usually want the impossible. Thats an age-old truth that hasnt change today.
I am into roleplaying games. When I was young and there werent home entertainment systems I spend my time with dice and tabletop games, I even spoke fancy or tried to in order to mimick people of old. When I got my C64 Bards Tale was my all-time favorite and that evolved into MMOs of various times while single-player story-driven RPGs never caught my interest. MMO success world wide suggests that my own preference is mirrored in millions and I was and am more than willing to spend money on something I want. Who hasnt played MMOs and absolutely LOVED the world, the availability of content, the detail and chance to immerse yourself in a fantasy world but has grown tired of all the jerks and idiot people roaming the same space?
World of Warcraft....just as a single player!
Well...you can play WoW solo all the way to endgame if you so wish but thats not the same is it? You are not the hero, you are not special, and even if you stay by yourself others can push themselves onto you at any time so not quite the same yeah? What I want is an open world where I dictate the pace and events, where I provide the solution and when I matter most. There should be a way to grow and become more powerful and the world needs to be dynamic and living on the level of true MMOs or at least comparable to them.
Thats the problem. Potential profit dictates effort or fund levels spent to provide the solution. Failures in the video game industry are at their base one simple thing.....the company in question misread the market and produced something they "thought" players want....thats for all the honest attempts who never bear fruits. Thats NOT the companies who intentionally promise the impossible and underdeliver because they know they can get away with it.
In order to continue the point....open worlds were fascinating to me but often enough the ingredients simply werent right for my taste. So while open world games arent "new" my first break-in (apart from MMOs) were the Division and Assassins Creed Odyssey (Origins too but I never even looked at it, only realized its right up my forte after I got ACO). And it wasnt the open world. It was the character progression and development system (even tho basic) which first made my head turn. The graphics and available content were just a bonus. Its the reason why I play incremental games as well. Playing with others was and is important to me but I want to do it on my own rules. Thats why I dislike competitive games or team-based PvP games. Even coop PvE games are a no-go as soon as I m unable to play solo. I dont want one or the other....I want it all.
Companies realize that the "next new thing" becomes the "last old thing" the moment they release. Thats the moment when all questions are answered, when the company "drops their pants" and shows the world whats what. There is no game that provided "everything" and even golden oldies, beloved after 20+ years were at best "basic" compared to todays games. A companies challenge is to stay on the forefront and release successful games on a regular basis, apart from actual profit that kind of track record generates "trust" which allows companies to make a misstep without dying outright. Blizzard (among other big publishers) demonstrates how that can play out. People hate them and their work but still buy all the stuff.
Under this kind of light its no surprise that Star Citizens development entered year 10 of development some time ago and SC is now among the short list of "notorious and costly industry failures" even tho its state is an unknown...we dont know if it ever becomes a released game or not. Right now its still very much in (pre-)alpha so from where I m standing....not looking too good. I wont deny that Star Citizen scratches the itch many people feel perfectly tho but its still not real...not yet at least.
You make money by giving people what they want. If you cant make the exact thing you provide the next best thing. All the games we ve seen so far over the last 50 years have been the second type. Great or even perfect at their time but old hats today and while many of them are being played after decades the world has moved on and new games leave those oldies in their dust.
You stick with the next best thing if you recognize the perfect thing isnt possible (either because of available tech or because of your own competence) and while its a common occurance to run into people who say they "can do your job better" they ultimately need to prove that. Until then its all hot air.
CiG (and Chris Roberts) is that loudmouth. They are barking the loudest, making the biggest claims and acting as if its no big deal, securing trust and confidence. Or at least thats what happened back in 2012. In 2021 they have switched to the republican "I dont see a problem" routine and refuse to budge to scrutiny, questions, doubt and open hostility. Because the results dont match the claims.
When can anybody afford a "I dont care about what others think" attitude?
When they are rich, making the rules or are not dependant on others actions.
How does that translate to CiG and Star Citizen?
In the end, it looks to me as if Chris Roberts original idea was Elite+WorldofWarcraft+StarWars and he never took a step back to think about if he can actually deliver any of that. He just promised the world and tries to stay above water ever since. This isnt special in any way apart from the part where he secured and received millions for a mind fart. Lots of companies have teams who spend their time with "coming up with new ideas" but there are regulations in place responsible for the games we receive in contrast to the games we WANT. And you very much want to consider those regulations if you dont plan on pee'ing away your hard earned trust and profits of the last 10 years.
Thats why I doubt that Star Citizen ever was an honest attempt from the start. Maybe not a scam technically but I m rigorous in my definition. If somebody sells you something he knows he cannot provide....he is scamming you or rather...thats what I will call it later when everything comes crashing down. The "I didnt know.." defense in order to escape responsebility works for simpletons and children but not for people who claim to be veterans. At the very least you very quickly pick up on people who actually are veterans or proficient in what they say or are just "full ot it"
Going back 5 years.....does Chris Roberts come across like somebody who knows what hes talking about or understands the challenges he is facing?
Exactly.
Star Citizen thus is nothing more than a "Halleluja" last cash grab on the way out the door. Chris Roberts is old...out of ideas and doesnt understand the industry he worked in anymore. But he needs to make money for his own reasons apart from securing a certain lifestyle. I dont think Star Citizen is on his mind anymore these days. He ll know full well its a fantasy he cannot create because other factors prevent him from doing so. Insufficient tech, incompetent people, third parties, haters...take your pick. When some people offer the "Chris Roberts probably didnt know back in 2012...he was basically stupid" olive branch I refuse to let it drop because Chris Roberts should ve known better or at least should ve realized he cannot do it 6 months in but here we are 10 years later and we are even further from release than we were back in 2012. With the amount of time and money lost today a "well, we tried, lets drop this yeah?" will not be enough.
Not for the people who become increasingly more irritated and frustrated by CiGs incompetence and lack of results as time goes by and also not for the people who refuse to acknowledge reality and rather double down in their faith, because the truth would be so ugly. And the question if Chris Roberts really wants to create Start Citizen is moot at this point...he should KNOW by now and frankly should ve known from the start, this isnt a question he doesnt have the answer to (as CEO). And I cannot see any possible reason to withold the reasons from sharing with the community that has lifted and carried this train wreck for so long.
- tech blockers
- no spoilers
and similar are simply "moving the goalpost" to avoid telling the reasons.
We cant do it
is the reason and the "...yet" addition doesnt count because that word wasnt in place back in 2012 when Roberts sold the game as if its guaranteed.
Now the question for each and every person involved (playerbase) is to keep waiting or giving up on it. "Lets forget about it and come back in a couple years" doesnt work for CiG because the project doesnt survive on that attitude. It absolutely NEEDS to generate income and so CiG entertains some servers, a lot of talks and constant sales to keep people occupied and involved and in the first group of people (keep waiting) despite all the heartache and dispute it generates - IT DOESNT HAVE A CHOICE. I very much doubt that the PU or PTU (seperating these in alpha is another red flag) produce any kind of critical or valuable input for the project anymore apart from judging and preparing the next sales drive. The much-touted "Testbed" analogy isnt really working when nothing changes despite the communities free bug testing and data crunching.
Star Citizen that we know today is a sedative, utilized to keep people distracted and ease the pain. Its not going anywhere...at least I lost that notion after the Xth "next year guys...for real this time" I lived through.
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Its also worth pointing out, in case Jingles/Paul didn't, that he is into SC for at least £1,000...
I wonder how that went
Sandi: hey love
Chris: (uh-oh, what does she want this time?)
Sandi: I ve noticed you are spending more time on your boy stuff but it looks like you have some money to spend
Chris: uhm...yeah, you see I recently started a new project, its about this awesome thing called (becomes agitated)
Sandi. yeah yeah yeah, whatever. I want in on it!
Chris: /sputters errr why?
Sandi: maybe you havent noticed but my own thing isnt doing too well and I even had to cancel our neighbours wives shopping tour because I cant afford it. Lucy next door probably thinks we are poor or something
Chris: (knows the drill and gives up) okay than....what can you do?
Sandi: What do you mean "what can you do?" I can do EVERYTHING but it best be a well paid position or else....
Chris: yeah no but I m CEO, Erin is my right hand, Ortwin is my left hand...we got all bases covered. If I put you on the payroll people will ask questions...what do I tell them?
Sandi: I dont like what you are saying but lets drop this for now (eyes say "this isnt over") and focus on the problem. I need to get a high-level position which justifies a fat paycheck but lets me NOT do any heavy lifting
Chris: CEO's Secretary?
Sandi: /throwsfryingpan
Chris: I GET IT, I GET IT....how about head of marketing? We dont have a need for marketing right now, and no department either, just a bunch of people who throw out wild stuff
Sandi: /stopspickingupthetelevision that doesnt sound too shabby.....and I wouldnt have to do any work?
Chris: Hell no hun, you can work out, go shopping or tour the world any time you want. You wont participate in the project or make any decision. Hell, I dont know what we are doing half the time hahaha
Sandi: but the moneys good right?
Chris: yeah sure, its awesome, we r raking in MILLIONS at the moment and we dont even do anything, its ridiculous. Just act the part, thats what I do lol
Sandi: that wasnt too hard now eh (pinches Chris's cheek)?
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That's not really a good thing...According to Sandi, I'm an 'entitled whiner' being concierge...she dropped that one on video too
I dont get it....are you from Vienna? I thought you reside on one of englands small...upstream isles? /clueless
I have a theory: It depends on how much the average person is used to being lied to or expects people to bend the truth a bit in their daily life.
Politicians, adverts, companies etc - if they have few checks and balances on lying and get away with it for a long time (like UK & USA) then the people are less believing of grand claims and can be more cynical. If they have proper checks and balances (Scandinavian countries in particular) their people are more trusting in general as they aren't used to being lied to so don't expect it as much. Same if they come from smaller communities where everyone knows everyone or large cities where they dont. Small communities are more trusting and friendly and large cities are less trusting and less friendly in general. Individuals are exceptions ofc but en masse it seems to be true.
Just a theory and other countries like Germany are in between those 2 outliers, then there's the internet which has no regulation and anybody can claim anything and get a following, especially Social Media.
They got lucky promoting a new album at the time the Berlin Wall fell.
Oh wait, that's David Hasselhoff.
Also - a lot of disposable income? But honestly, is it really? We have no data country per country, right?