Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

The Cutlass was concepted by Jim Martin and has not done any work on Star Wars, he did work on Star Trek DS9 however, and is credited with the USS Defiant.


Ryan Archer worked on Star Wars movies and series including The Mandalorian, I don't believe he has done any concept work for SC since the project started since the ships he is credited with are the Bengal, Idris, Retaliator, Aurora and the Constellation and its snub. That's nearly a decade ago.
Ryan Archer worked for CIG until September 2016.

Marketing & Web Artist

Company Name - Cloud Imperium Games Contract

Dates Employed - Aug 2013 – Sep 2016

Employment Duration - 3 yrs 2 mos

Location - Austin, Texas Area

Designed the Presentations & Art Work for Events, Art for Ads, Ship Brochures, Sales Graphics, Art & Layout Design for Monthly Magazine, Video Graphics, Social Media & Website Marketing Graphics.

He encountered some legal issues when the board game he did art for was found to be copied from other IPs
 
None of these shapes are "plausible" in any way, especially for spaceships entering atmosphere. Basically in S-F in general there are no "plausible" ships, unless a franchise wants to put more focus on it, like The Expanse does. Otherwise it is all about art direction and assumed aesthetics. The visual language.
"Plausible" is different from "Realistic". I said "Plausible" from a gamer point of view, not a engineer one. (sorry if "plausible" is not common in english, it's a common word in french and used frequently)

And this is the big part of the lack of personality of SC's universe. It has nothing screaming "this is SC".
And it's absolutly what I like about SC. I don't want a game that scream "It's me" when I walk 10 meters in a street. The Blade Runner ambiance is the perfect exemple of what I don't want for the whole SC universe. I want Blade Runner in some part of the universe (Lorville) but not everywhere, I want also to see the sun on a beach elsewhere like IRL because when you travel on earth, Glasgow doesn't have the same DA than Miami or La Couvertoirade. The real world lack a common DA and yet is pretty immersive. SC has a strong personnality for some of its manufacturers (the best are Origin and Drake) and that's the more important for me than a restrictive universe personnality.
 
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And this is the big part of the lack of personality of SC's universe. It has nothing screaming "this is SC".
Bagman and Bunnyman are definitive Star Citizen.

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Ryan Archer worked for CIG until September 2016.

Marketing & Web Artist

Company Name - Cloud Imperium Games Contract

Dates Employed - Aug 2013 – Sep 2016

Employment Duration - 3 yrs 2 mos

Location - Austin, Texas Area

Designed the Presentations & Art Work for Events, Art for Ads, Ship Brochures, Sales Graphics, Art & Layout Design for Monthly Magazine, Video Graphics, Social Media & Website Marketing Graphics.

He encountered some legal issues when the board game he did art for was found to be copied from other IPs
You're right, it was another Ryan that did the ship concepts for SC, Ryan Church.

 
None of these shapes are "plausible" in any way, especially for spaceships entering atmosphere. Basically in S-F in general there are no "plausible" ships, unless a franchise wants to put more focus on it, like The Expanse does. Otherwise it is all about art direction and assumed aesthetics. The visual language.

And this is the big part of the lack of personality of SC's universe. It has nothing screaming "this is SC". It screams S-F tropes, but nothing on its own. Wing Commander had feline Kilrathi and their ships (lost in the movie). Star Wars has a collection of obviously iconic designs. Star Trek as well. Mass Effect has its retro-futuristic lines, the ubiquitous font and arching shapes, plus aliens that have personality, even if they repeat existing tropes. Blade Runner is a rain-soaked, neon dystopia that spawned an entire visual sub-genre. Dead Space has body horror, markers and everything looking like high-tech industrial nightmare. The Expanse has no-nonsense spaceship design that deals with real-world physics. Homeworld has colors, shapes and music of a mystical space desert journey that put it visually in a league of its own.

What is a distinct, striking element of the SC universe? Eclipse, Talon and larger UEE ships? Maybe?
Oh, but there are plausible shapes. It is one that brings most guns to bear on most part around the ship. As such the Star Destroyer's V shape is pretty good. Guns at the sides can fire up, down and front. Most ship in between might be quite a waste but we can handwave that away sonehow. It fields fighter crafts so that's lot if space needed.
 
Who knew today's news on other topics would actually yield a CR cameo from years ago?
"I've played games forever," says November's employee of the month, J. Allen Brack, "beginning with the Pong machine my dad brought home when I was around six." In fact, J. Allen played all sorts of games before discovering the one that eventually would have a major influence his in life. "The first time I played Wing Commander, I felt my life was complete and it just couldn't get any better. Then came Wing Commander II, and Privateer, and I eventually realized that there was a direct correlation between ORIGIN, Chris Roberts, and my happiness."

Then one day, to his great surprise, J. Allen was offered an opportunity to be a tester for Wing Commander III. Although he was going to school at the time, he decided that while school would wait, Wing Commander III would not! Although he believed this was definitely his "dream job," he was riddled with fear on how he could prove himself worthy of working on a project of "the man, the myth, the legend, Chris Roberts." What he did was throw himself into the project to the point of perhaps being overzealous. In a memorable moment, J. Allen delivered what he refers to as "an impassioned speech" about a potential problem with the game to his idol. Unfortunately, his emotions got the best of him, and he will forever be remembered for yelling at Chris Roberts, "THREE POSSIBLE PATHS!! THREE POSSIBLE PATHS!!"

Nonetheless, it's that tireless drive for excellence and quality that earns the respect of his peers. As the project leader for Privateer 2: The Darkening, J. Allen has indeed proven himself "worthy." Said one co-worker, "Through is verve and inexhaustible esprit, he has concurrently maintained high morale among his testing team." Added another, "J. has gone above and beyond what anyone would be expected to do." And finally, "His devotion is unquestionable, and his dedication unmatchable."

It's a very good thing that you weren't fired by Chris Roberts, J. Allen! Congratulations, and keep up the good work!
Source
 
If you’re doodling in your sketchbook trying to invent an entirely new visual language for a yet-to-be-imagined fully thought through sci fi world; yes, maybe.

But if you’re building out a vaguely familiar pop-cultural game world that you want people to not think too hard about but nonetheless believe in and be inspired by, which has things like space marines and laser pistols with recoil and detachable clips, suits with giant shoulder pads and front plates that look like abs, ancient aliens invading in big round organic ships, plasma shotguns and MEN and WOMEN and LAVIAN BRANDY and “engineers” who talk about “brain stuff” with the same cadence as millennials on tiktok; then there’s absolutely nothing wrong with referencing shapes and designs which bring their own sense of culturally understood visual presence along with them.

I mean, that’s why basically every sci fi ship (Elite included) has wing-ey shapes and a cockpit and looks like an airplane or part of an airplane even though none of that design language is appropriate to envisioning real space flight that far into the future.

These shapes have a recognizable front and a back and little fiddly bits which intuitively mean things to people when they get shot off or damaged and so that’s how it works. And when it doesn’t look like that, it looks like either a robotic fish or a robotic bird, (see most anime ships, Black Panther, Guardians of the Galaxy, Jupiter Rising, etc), because those shapes have immediately recognizable fronts and backs and little fiddly bits which intuitively mean things to viewers when they get shot off or catch fire.

Otherwise you end up with stuff like “Flight of the Navigator” or The Starship of the Imagination from “Cosmos,” which are cool and appropriate for what they are, while also being nothing anyone playing videogames wants to fly.

The last three significant ships to come
into the Elite Dangerous universe were the Chieftain, the Krait, and the Mamba. All of the major excited effusive compliments around these three ships were NOT that they were original, but how much they resembled other things.

The Chieftain was complimented for Looking Like A Star Citizen Ship, and/or for looking like The Pelican from Halo or the dropship from Aliens.

This was especially emotionally important to people at the time. A major point of contention/embarrassment between ED/SC fanboys was “EUUOUGH DO YOU HAVNE ANY SHIPS WHICH DONT LOOK LIKE CHEESE WDGES ?? hurrdurr. ED white knights were actually upset about this enough that The Chieftain made them happy the same way Space Planet Legs makes them happy now. As a comparative talking point (“whoa-ho-ho looks like Star Citizen’s got some competition now!”) and absolutely nothing else. But I digress.

The big excitement around the Krait, apart from it being a revival of one of the classic 1984 vector shapes, was that it looked and felt kind of like the Millenium Falcon from Star Wars. And the Mamba was praised for resembling something like a modern sports car crossed with a speed boat. Everything about these designs traded on looking similar to some other universally agreed-upon “cool thing”.

Whaddya think: in real life, does Richard Branson have a cooler looking space ship, or are you more of a Bezos fan? Which one would you want to see imported into a video game? If you chose the flying -tube: I respect your integrity, but I don’t want you designing my videogames.
Beliebigkeit is good for trash household tools. Stuff you dont spend much time with and just use. Not sure what the Englush word is. Cookie cutter goes the route. Beliebigkeit is interchangeability with a flair of "whatever". Too much leeching off other ideas can do that. If there is nothing distonct - it can look crisp as Crobbers wants it - but people wont probably stick to it or buy it in numbers.
 
After the not ED ship, the not Eve Online ship, the not Millennium Falcon and the not X-Wing, we have the not exotic vertical ship from NMS? This is painful to watch given the resources CIG have. Unfortunately the art direction in SC is basically the reflection of the tropes Chris likes or remembers. Dune? Sure. Star Wars? Yes. Blade Runner? Da. Mix it up and sprinkle everything with a thick shower of Wing Commander. It is regurgitation squared.

In general, the SC universe has no personality on its own, contrary even to Wing Commander. The theatrically feline Kilrathi were at least distinctive and memorable. Would you say the same about the space Vandals or the space Chinese from SC?

They could do so much better with the talent they have and the number of artists they hired. Sometimes you can see the potential in ship designs like Talon or in larger UEE units, but otherwise there is nothing about the SC universe that says "this is definitely from the SC universe".
You can only say this design belongs to this because it recognisably follows this design concept.

The only reason you can't do that with SC is because they are all quite different from eachother, for CIG this is very deliberate, they are supposed to follow a distinct manufacturers design concept, you're not supposed to be able to point at a design and say "this is Star Citizen" what you're supposed to do is say "this is Drake, this is Anvil, Origin, This one Agis, MISC, RSI, Espiria, Tumbril, Consolidated Outland, Kruger, Aopoa, Crusader, Gatac, Banu, Greycat and Vanduul

Job done.

When it comes to some ships that look like other ships, yes sometimes they are deliberately taking design queues from existing well known concepts, sometimes they are just common shapes, like X winged, which looks nothing like the X Wing from Star Wars.

Other times you look at a Ship in SC and think "that looks familiar, damn it i have seen something like that before" you have, Because CIG often hire people who worked on ships for well known movies and TV series.

For example. Gorge Hull and Jim Martin
www.jimmartindesign.co
 
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You can only say this design belongs to this because it recognisably follows this design concept.

The only reason you can't do that with SC is because they are all quite different from eachother, for CIG this is very deliberate, they are supposed to follow a distinct manufacturers design concept, you're not supposed to be able to point at a design and say "this is Star Citizen" what you're supposed to do is say "this is Drake, this is Anvil, Origin, This one Agis, MISC, RSI, Espiria, Tumbril, Consolidated Outland, Kruger, Aopoa, Crusader, Gatac, Banu, Greycat and Vanduul
These are not mutually exclusive things. Calamari ships were always distinct from Empire ships, plus there was a line of transition designs between the failing Republic and the Empire. Federation ships in Star Trek are distinct. Human or turian designs in Mass Effect, various factions in WH40k etc. And yet, in addition to this diversity, there are ways to establish visually in which universe you are, even if some locations or scenes could be exchanged between them (a factory from Mass Effect could happen in Star Trek etc).

This ability is a result of art direction, world building, elements that do not dominate but define a universe. Understanding what it is about, even if not everything in that universe is about it. This is also why the SW universe got uncontrollably bloated when it started to include nonsense like The Yuuzhan Vong.

What defines the Star Citizen universe in this way? What is distinct about it, uniquely SC? What are the core ideas? Again, the only minor thing I can think of are designs of larger UEE ships.
 
These are not mutually exclusive things. Calamari ships were always distinct from Empire ships, plus there was a line of transition designs between the failing Republic and the Empire. Federation ships in Star Trek are distinct. Human or turian designs in Mass Effect, various factions in WH40k etc. And yet, in addition to this diversity, there are ways to establish visually in which universe you are, even if some locations or scenes could be exchanged between them (a factory from Mass Effect could happen in Star Trek etc).

This ability is a result of art direction, world building, elements that do not dominate but define a universe. Understanding what it is about, even if not everything in that universe is about it. This is also why the SW universe got uncontrollably bloated when it started to include nonsense like The Yuuzhan Vong.

What defines the Star Citizen universe in this way? What is distinct about it, uniquely SC? What are the core ideas? Again, the only minor thing I can think of are designs of larger UEE ships.
Like what? how do you make ships that look different from eachother but also recognisable to one game? especially if you use many different designers.

I think i can tell a Star Citizen ship apart from Star Trek or Mass Effect, but i also want to be able to tell them apart distinctly from eachother, i want to be able to look at a section of the hull and say that's Origin, that's Anvil...
 
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