Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Do you think there will be a Citicon? I'm not sure - after 10 years and little to show for it's more an embarrassment than a party.
There will be a digital one this year, October 9.
 
Ship docking looking good!

Anyway, I am honestly excited for CitiCon this year. It will be either a source of never ending jokes and drama, or of cool presentations of something that may even materialise.

And for those who ask how I can be both cynical and hopeful - La Trollonna È Mobile!

Hey there's plenty of form right?

For the 2019 Citcon we got:

  • Pretty snowstorms [now in the game]
  • Pretty space clouds [now in the game]
  • Pretty planet tech, new planet and city [now in the game]
  • Pretty ships! [in the game]
  • Prison gameplay! [in the game]
  • Server Side Object Container Streaming! [in the game] [didn't bring the higher server caps hoped for]
  • Baby persistence [in the game]
  • Jump gates to new systems [not in the game]
  • New system: Pyro [not in the game]
  • Theatres of War [not in the game]
  • Dynamic Quantum Background Simulation! [not in the game]
  • Stealth gameplay [not in the game]
  • Expensive future ships! [not in the game] [Kraken Privateer etc]
  • iCache / Server Meshing V0 [not in the game]

And some other chaff like cloth technology or whatever, that's made the centre piece of some dramatised escape scenario, and then is never seen again ;)

Who knows what new (& expensive) pretty stuff will emerge, what new fanciful fidelity will fall through the cracks, which fruitily named technology will fail to do anything appreciable, and which giant pillar additions will completely fail to materialise. It'll be a fun ride as always ;)
 
Sorted a couple of things...server lag and desync are still present and correct, though not nearly as bad. The main fixes were to the live build, most of them server side. It's... err...better than it was :)

We tried to teach some ROC mining techniques to a mate of mine who hasn't played for a couple of years..started off well when I plummeted to my death after trying to look cool balanced on the open ramp of an MSR as it was still flying...things went downhill from there. Since I had fallen out and was respawning a couple of million KM away, the other 3 tried to get my ROC-DS out of the back...they failed this apparently simple task after crashing it it into the side wall of the ship and flipped it upside down still in the hangar. The resultant screenie was them trying to shake the turtled ROC out of the back of the MSR....and no, I've no idea why they tried it either :oops:

Bottom left of the screenie, survival estimate is slightly off since Humbug fell to his death 2 seconds after the pic was taken. Final score...Planet: 4 - Mining Muppets: nil :D

7qkQA6b.png
I did move it about 4 feet but the light bar on the roof of the ROC got snagged on the base of the ramp and that was that it wouldn't move any more.

It was fun... but next time lets not take the DS :)

I might write up an IC report later about that Desync, its a strange one and not good for group mining.
 
And some other chaff like cloth technology or whatever, that's made the centre piece of some dramatised escape scenario, and then is never seen again ;)
It's in game in Orison in some places. The tech is also used since several patches when you leave prison on the plastic blades hanging in the way.
 

Interesting, but like with ED i see it only as a stop-gap solution and not something that should be used unless there is no other choice.

However, what does this say about the excuse that low frames are due to the servers? Time for another historical retcon?
 
It's in game in Orison in some places. The tech is also used since several patches when you leave prison on the plastic blades hanging in the way.

Got a source for that? Because as of March 2021 they were saying the 'vcloth' tech wasn't in. IE "It's a highly complex technical challenge and we look forward to sharing more visual/tangible progress with you at some point."

Lol, as a response to the question: What is the current status of being able to remove/put on our helmets in-game?

That whole thread is insane.

Remember the cloth tech of Citcon 2018?

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjHn0iUpBVE&t=14m25s

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjHn0iUpBVE&t=21m34s


Also seen in the grand 'tarpaulin over a vehicle' highlight of Citcon 2019, featuring 'all the physics stuff coming together'...

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYTmUDtOppA&t=36m35s


Want to know why it’s still not in the game?

TLDR: Because they were just hacky Citcon demos, like always ;)

Many thanks for this great question and for remembering our little presentation back in 2018 - always happy to see people care about our characters, their animation and deformation quality - and cloth simulation in particular.  

The vcloth (vertex cloth) simulation tech is a great example of priorities shifting over the course of production - which is perfectly normal in game development. In the case of vcloth, the successful roll-out of the feature depends on three main pillars:

- The basic cloth solver needs to be implemented by our physics team, needs to have all the core features like tweakable dynamics parameters, collision, self-collision etc. and needs to run fast enough so it can be applied to a reasonable number of characters simultaneously. Apart from that it also needs to be robust and 'stable' in the sense of not 'exploding' due to the extreme accelerations that can often occur from one frame to the next in the context of games. Lastly, it needs to support the needs of the (tech) art and content centric teams and give them full control over how the cloth behaves and its look and feel, under all the drastically different conditions you'll end up seeing it in, from fps fights to slow-paced hero cinematic close-ups.

- An efficient pipeline between DCC (digital content creation) applications such as Maya and our engine needs to be established, as well as tools on the DCC side that allow efficient setup and markup of the simulation assets. The sheer number of assets in our game requires these solutions to be scalable since once the tech comes online, most existing assets (that are deemed worth it) will need to be moved over, i.e. all current assets that use the old 'pendulum sim' system, and then some. Good tools and pipelines glue everything together, it's where our productivity lies.

- Lastly, the assets themselves need to be there and need to be suitable for simulation in terms of how they were built and their structure. If you model, say some trousers that are rather baggy you'll find that they end up looking pretty bad and unnaturally stiff/rigid in the game if they 'don't have sim' because the solver and pipeline aren't ready yet. But if you need the outfit for an upcoming release you'll likely concept and model them with a tighter fit so the deformation/movement will match the expected behavior in motion. However, once the vcloth tech does come online you'll obviously want assets that allow it to shine and look super cool. You'll want cloaks and trenchcoats and cool leather jackets and all kinds of dynamic attachments - you'll want players to want to take off their armor in the landing zones cause it looks 10x cooler and more individualistic. But it's a all dependency on the solver and pipeline being fully ready.

At CitCon 2018 we were at a point where they were only about halfway there but initial results already looked so excitingly cool and promising that we wanted to share them with you. What happened then is simply game development.

The same physics wizards that can give us fancy cloth solvers for cool looking assets are also the folks that implement some core features of our engine which are the foundations for actual gameplay. They work i.e. on physics grids and spatial query acceleration structures which keep track of where objects are in space and whether they collide, are hit by projectiles etc. They are a core component of all AI path-finding logic without which all AI, both NPC ships and agents, would not have any awareness of their environment whatsoever - nothing that could even trigger a behavior/action in the first place. They would just 'T-pose', even outside of server perf being an issue, and I guess nobody wants this. So in this case progress on some of the most fundamental systems our games are built upon, was prioritized over the cool shiny stuff, for more than two years.

As much as the visual tech nerd in me that hand-optimized the config.sys and autoexec.bat files on his DOS-PC in the 90s in order to see the fancy additional effects this enabled in the early Wing Commander games - as much as this part of me would have loved to bring you vcloth on characters by now - the other part of me that wants to see our game come together and Chris' vision realized, is fully convinced that this was exactly the right thing to do. And to be clear - we've obviously already tried to clone our physics peeps in order to speed up the process, but it didn't quite work out, sadly.  

That being said, work on 'vcloth' has been picked up again and will continue, gameplay-related physics-duties permitting. It's a highly complex technical challenge and we look forward to sharing more visual/tangible progress with you at some point. Bear in mind that not all the teams that take part in this initiative are currently represented on the public roadmap yet, which is due to change though.

I know there are some flags that flutter if you point your ship engines at them at Orison. So perhaps it is in some form. But haven't seen any chat about it.

It's kind of notable that there's nothing like this silliness in game though ;)

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYTmUDtOppA&t=36m35s


But like I say, this is all just chaff. Fidelity oversell. The standard demo hackery and sleight of hand that Chris does so well.

What's more important is the big pillar missing stuff. Like the much glamourised Jump Points, Pyro diversity for exploration and gameplay, dynamic 'quanta' background simulation, and Server Meshing advances. All dangled in 2019 at Citcon. All scheduled for 2020. All nowhere to be seen in mid 2021...
 
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Interesting, but like with ED i see it only as a stop-gap solution and not something that should be used unless there is no other choice.

However, what does this say about the excuse that low frames are due to the servers? Time for another historical retcon?
"what does this say about the excuse that low frames are due to the servers?"

You're right and its an interesting point because this used to be a thing, It still is but the server doesn't have anything like the effect on your performance that it used to.

This is where the server caps my performance, you can see that with the GPU load at 85%, my Frame Rates are 90, good enough i think :)

XsA8wuX.png



Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q413YKjCwbA
 
Low framerate is not due to servers. That has been specifically stated by a dev but some players continue to say it from time to time.
From the creators of the game...

The following user-controlled variable may impact FPS:​

  • Game resolution and quality level (i.e. graphics settings in mockup)
  • Unsanctioned modification of cvars
  • Running the game without using the fastest GPU installed, in systems with multiple GPUs available (i.e. onboard GPU + discreet GPU; the game will look for a discreet GPU by default in such situations)
  • Other programs running in the background, that utilize CPU or GPU
  • Available system and video memory
  • Overriding application settings within the video driver (i.e. super sampling, filtering, transparency, etc.)
  • Running with Reshade, Sweetfx, or similar
  • Outdated drivers
  • Current load on server, and gameplay situation
  • Running 3rd party apps that hook into DXGI or D3D to display overlays, etc.
  • 3rd party apps modifying the behavior of video cards (i.e. tweaking tools)
 
Low framerate is not due to servers. That has been specifically stated by a dev but some players continue to say it from time to time.

Haha, and the retcon has started.

Well done!
"what does this say about the excuse that low frames are due to the servers?"

You're right and its an interesting point because this used to be a thing, It still is but the server doesn't have anything like the effect on your performance that it used to.

This is where the server caps my performance, you can see that with the GPU load at 85%, my Frame Rates are 90, good enough i think :)

XsA8wuX.png



Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q413YKjCwbA

90 FPS looking at a wall. Impressive stuff!
 
Haha, and the retcon has started.

Well done!


90 FPS looking at a wall. Impressive stuff!

Yes, that is the highest point, it reached 94, the highest i have ever seen it was 108.

Mostly it isn't that high because its GPU locked, that's the point, there was a time when the server wouldn't even allow you to get much past 30 if you were lucky, it is still server dependant but the days of low frame rates due to servers are long gone.
 
Got a source for that? Because as of March 2021 they were saying the 'vcloth' tech wasn't in. IE "It's a highly complex technical challenge and we look forward to sharing more visual/tangible progress with you at some point."
I think he was talking about clothes for players but the tech is here since some times as said before.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/ohmzjf/some_clothship_interaction/

You have also tarpaulins to protect boxes in the industrial part of Orison.
 
I think he was talking about clothes for players but the tech is here since some times as said before.

He was, but it seems to be an application of the same tech, as he talks about it for asset use more broadly.

But yep, I noted the flags. (It's just a bit unclear whether it's the same tech / approach, as you said. It could well be, or it could some random plug-in they've opted for instead, or whatever.)

You have also tarpaulins to protect boxes in the industrial part of Orison.

I take it you can't pull them off in a billowing cinematic motion, Chris style? (Otherwise there'd be 20 reddit posts of everyone doing it ;))

Well anyway, that's probably enough time deconstructing this bit of bling. (Although we could talk about how the clothing demoed in Citcon 2018 definitely isn't in? ;)).

But have you got any thoughts on the big missing Citcon stuff? What exciting big pillar things do you think they'll announce at Citcon 2021, for 2022, that won't appear for the next few years? ;)
 
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