Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

ZeeWolf

ZeeWolf
Valve just released a bunch of CS2 trailers including one about dynamic "sub tick" architecture. Sounds like they have some sort of predictive tech to ammend client transactions that otherwise get out of sync "between server ticks"

So we can expect an announcement soon from CIG of never-been-done-before-good-as-delivered-cos-we -just-thought-of-it "Star Tick" architecture that should be fully integrated in the game "in the next two years" so keep the feedback praiseful and the money you might spend on real games in Roberts bank now plz
 

cigwatch

cigwatch
BTW, this is indeed interesting:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjSikUO_9WI


But I am not sure it is predictive. It is also impossible for the server to know a player action "the exact moment it is made".

My first intuition, as someone who has never implemented net code and is simply guessing: "main" ticks still exist, processing the event queue at a steady interval. Additionally, a separate thread is run that reacts to important actions (like shooting) as fast as possible, maybe on a separate, priority queue, without waiting for the next "main" tick. Actions that are not as significant as shooting, are still processed at the normal tick rate. When a "main" tick comes, the priority actions that happened before it, are reconciled with that part of the game world changes that were expressed in the "main" queue, with priority being given to the sub-tick events. In a way, that would be like two separate game servers running on different schedules and agreeing on the state of the game every "main" tick.

Again, just my imagination speaking here.
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
LittleAnt said:
Yeah it's a milestone. 50 bottles in a container, lot of derelicts in space, abandoned ships, corpses and box looting, etc. Stanton has made a big step forward in the immersive aspect and in interest. There is a before and after 3.18.
And before PES, SC was managing at least 500 000 entities by server. Now, I can't say hom much this number has expanded but it's a lot more and CIG has already greatly stabilised the servers. Since several days, my game sessions are pretty stable, not a lot of desync and with few 30k.
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
cigwatch said:
BTW, this is indeed interesting:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjSikUO_9WI


But I am not sure it is predictive. It is also impossible for the server to know a player action "the exact moment it is made".

My first intuition, as someone who has never implemented net code and is simply guessing: "main" ticks still exist, processing the event queue at a steady interval. Additionally, a separate thread is run that reacts to important actions (like shooting) as fast as possible, maybe on a separate, priority queue, without waiting for the next "main" tick. Actions that are not as significant as shooting, are still processed at the normal tick rate. When a "main" tick comes, the priority actions that happened before it, are reconciled with that part of the game world changes that were expressed in the "main" queue, with priority being given to the sub-tick events. In a way, that would be like two separate game servers running on different schedules and agreeing on the state of the game every "main" tick.

Again, just my imagination speaking here.
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I think you have part of the technique well described there.

Additionally, you can't exactly predict, but you make best guess attempts, and in theory, this cuts down on the network traffic and helps you figure out what might have happened due to lost packets or delays.

So, for example, someone is pitching their ship up, then its also probable on the next tick they will be pitching their ship up, so you assume that, unless a packet arrives saying something else happened or you have some other indication that it can't have happened (eg: would clip the ship through an object if pitch up continued).

This sort of thing has been used in game networking since at least the days of Age of Empires 2, and there was a really good article posted many years ago by one of the devs how they used such techniques to lower network overhead and handle lost packets, especially how bad things were then regarding online play over dial up modems.

Choppa.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
LittleAnt said:
Yeah it's a milestone. 50 bottles in a container, lot of derelicts in space, abandoned ships, corpses and box looting, etc. Stanton has made a big step forward in the immersive aspect and in interest. There is a before and after 3.18.
And before PES, SC was managing at least 500 000 entities by server. Now, I can't say hom much this number has expanded but it's a lot more and CIG has already greatly stabilised the servers. Since several days, my game sessions are pretty stable, not a lot of desync and with few 30k.
Click to expand...
5Xo5MJ9.gif
 

ZeeWolf

ZeeWolf
cigwatch said:
BTW, this is indeed interesting:

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjSikUO_9WI


But I am not sure it is predictive. It is also impossible for the server to know a player action "the exact moment it is made".

My first intuition, as someone who has never implemented net code and is simply guessing: "main" ticks still exist, processing the event queue at a steady interval. Additionally, a separate thread is run that reacts to important actions (like shooting) as fast as possible, maybe on a separate, priority queue, without waiting for the next "main" tick. Actions that are not as significant as shooting, are still processed at the normal tick rate. When a "main" tick comes, the priority actions that happened before it, are reconciled with that part of the game world changes that were expressed in the "main" queue, with priority being given to the sub-tick events. In a way, that would be like two separate game servers running on different schedules and agreeing on the state of the game every "main" tick.

Again, just my imagination speaking here.
Click to expand...

Good, but to work at CIG you need more obfuscation jargon so that backers think its truly beyond rocket science:

Our server team is beginning foundation tier 0 structural whiteboarding on the application programing interface for our unique tick processing framework meta framework. It is still early days but Bud Budkins our new junior cloud infrastructure engineer demonstrated his diagram of a very early concept which will allow thread reactions based on a sub-tick event based scenario can you just buy an Idris?
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
MQC said:

Come on, Whales, keep throwing your money in CR's face by buying pathetic items from the Subscribers Store with real money....

And remember that being able to buy stuff in SC with real money is a "gift" given to you by CIG because they are very nice people, just like being able to "test" (not play) their (not your) Early Access Alpha.
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From Ci~G's knowledge base...entirely unethical and perhaps actually illegal under EU consumer law as suggested by Camural :)

Pledge Items Lost on Death​

Personal player inventories have been introduced and players will now lose all of their carried items should they die, as they will remain with the player's corpse instead of staying with them upon respawning. You will need to return to where you died to recover your items on your own. Items lost will be only what you were carrying at the time of death and anything safely stored in a landing zone will be retained.

This is why it is important to take care of your health and request assistance should you find yourself incapacitated.

This also applies to items from the pledge store, including subscriber items, however the pledges for these remain attributed to you on your account even though they may be lost in game. We are examining solutions for recovering these looted pledge items in the future, but for now these will return on the next major game patch.

This is intended functioning of the system and so RSI Support cannot assist with recovering items lost to death if they are taken by someone else before you can retrieve them yourself.
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
Mole HD said:
From Ci~G's knowledge base...entirely unethical and perhaps actually illegal under EU consumer law as suggested by Camural :)
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If understand this correctly the only items lost would be armor, clothes and personal weapons related pledges, i.e. what the pledge store calls "Gear"; and paints, and similar gear in the sub store. But not ships or vehicles and related weapons/modules. That being the case the issue is probably not that serious to be honest. Perhaps illegal as per EU consumer laws, but if so, only about a part of the game that is not as critical to players as ships are. Could be fun to see someone testing those ToS though!
 
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Mole HD

Mole HD
Viajero said:
If understand this correctly the only items lost would be armor, clothes and personal weapons related pledges, i.e. what the pledge store calls "Gear"; and paints, and similar gear in the sub store. But not ships or vehicles and related weapons/modules. That being the case the issue is probably not that serious to be honest. Perhaps illegal as per EU consumer laws, but if so, only about a part of the game that is not as critical to players as ships are.
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They are mostly cosmetic items but bought with real cash for use in game. Restricting access to those items just because Ci~G can't be bothered fixing the problem isn't really the issue.

The issue, albeit a contentious one, is that if I have an item I paid cash for and is then account tied, another player looting that item, therein denying me access to it is committing an actual theft...the paid for, purely cosmetic items are tied to my account, same as the ships are. I can respawn the ships I paid for, I can also respawn any ships I bought in game with game currency...so why can't I respawn the likewise cash purchased armours and cosmetic items I bought in good faith from the online store?

There was never...and I believe there still isn't... any caveat or advisory given at the point of purchase that I may have those items stolen and removed from my personal possession should I chose to equip them in game. Having them remain tied to my account but with no real time access to those items except through a quarterly or yearly major point patch is frankly unacceptable. I didn't buy them simply to have them either stolen or lost through a virtual plethora of fatal game bugs. I paid for them, I should have unrestricted access to them. End of. 🤷‍♂️

If Ci~G wish to pursue this advocation of personal theft, there should be a notice writ large at the point of purchase advising potential buyers of that fact...
 
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cigwatch

cigwatch
But what's the fuzz about. SC is a high risk, high stakes, realistic 'verse with true consequences to one's actions. Backers are not paying for lost items. They are pledging to support the project and merely are gifted some items from CI as a thank you.

Exactly like I do with my local grocery store.
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
cigwatch said:
But what's the fuzz about. SC is a high risk, high stakes, realistic 'verse with true consequences to one's actions. Backers are not paying for lost items. They are pledging to support the project and merely are gifted some items from CI as a thank you.

Exactly like I do with my local grocery store.
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You don't have to personally pay VAT or sales tax on either: a) charitable donations or: b) something given to you as a gift in exchange for said charitable donations. Until the idiot Roberts and his team of shysters manage to lobby parliament to change consumer law...what Ci~G are doing is the selling of digital goods ;)
 
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VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Anyone wanna know how Berks is doing?


EDIT: He managed to get in again, and after bouncing around a few more servers to find a responsive one, got lucky with a soft-death Reclaimer, pirated it with some ease, then they all 30ked before they could land anywhere ;)
 
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