Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Someone please explain why these streamers keep persisting on "playing" this "game". Don't they have better games to do? Has the whole world actually gone mad? 🤷‍♂️

this isnt hard. because the overall experience is more positive than negative.

youre just in here where all the clips of bad stuff happening are harvested and concentrated down. it generally is not that bad. it is buggy, sure, but not miserable.
 
Someone please explain why these streamers keep persisting on "playing" this "game". Don't they have better games to do? Has the whole world actually gone mad? 🤷‍♂️
They probably get some kickbacks, free jpegs, or other incentive from CIG.

To be honest, ever since the very first few people started streaming SC (iirc when it was literally just fly a small ship around an area and shoot bot ships or walk around a basic hangar) I have struggled to come up with a compelling reason why anyone would stream it, other than being paid in some way by CIG. I mean when most people try a broken, 5-10% finished game, with no polish, no fine tuning, no slick anything and constant crashes or other tech problems, the desire to play longer usually vanishes quite quickly.

I'm pretty sure everyone has at least one game (that isn't SC) in their library that they played once, and after a poor experience due to overall game quality, will never touch again, now imagine deciding to go "Streamer" on that game, it's probably not good for the soul. :)
 
It also, not either of the games that I, and many others, were sold.


donald-glover-good.gif
 
It also, not either of the games that I, and many others, were sold.

Those original plans were destroyed the moment they saw the money rolling in, the more they gathered the farther away from it's original scope it slipped.

In a funny and mostly ironic way, the whales, over time, have destroyed their own passion project by rewarding failure rather than punishing it.

(Forgive me if I'm just rehashing old talking points, SC is mostly a faded and forgotten old joke to me these days, and as per usual the only thing worth talking about with it is the myriad problems and award winningly awful mismanagement, if it wasn't for those things SC would never be spoken about by anyone).
 
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Still haven't set up my hotas bindings but Badger persuaded me to delve into 3.23 a few days ago to hang out as his turret gunner for an evening, mainly trying to entice me back into SC since I haven't played at all since 3.17...but also to play around on the new hover bikes he had bought as LTI tokens (yes, he's still doing the occasional spend).

Ended up trying the hover bikes out was a fail...mainly due to me having mouse control turned off for flying (and I couldn't be r'sed spending half an hour searching through the intolerably complex keybinds menu to turn it back on). I couldn't steer the bike at all, so reduced to just strafing and forward/back with the WASD keys... I gave up and went back to sulking in the ship turret not being able to shoot at anything (even whilst being attacked) since all the ships guns are disabled by default in QT or landing modes leaving you utterly defenseless...thanks to the absolutely pointless...nay... ridiculously inept and completely unnecessary addition of pew-pew related 'master modes'.

I tried the new (beta) Vulkan graphics API to see what's occurring with all that. Not much difference to be honest, less wishy washy colours than DX11 but the frame rates were equally as meh, averaging out at 70-odd FPS in Lorville and Area 18 even with frame generation turned on in my AMD software. I eventually went back to DX11 as Vulkan for some reason had some weird side effects like an invisible visual barrier caused by the helmet hud blanking out all the turret and ship MFD's...as well as a few other visual oddities.

Screenshot (89).png

Apart from the Vulkan thing, the 'pin the tail on the donkey' personal inventory system was just as dire slow and clunky as it's always been with occasionally vanishing items...entirely due to poor server FPS and adjudication/authentication server backlog I suspect, I nonetheless had everything I had from when I last loaded the game up...all the ship bling and personal armours/cash etc...but apart from the usual Star Citizen jankiness and well known bugs...nothing much else was (relatively) too far amiss for a Star Citizen point patch.

I liked the new minimap and Starmap especially, still not sure about the new active 'F' key selection menu thing, it's clunky and unnecessarily complex (the star citizen design mantra)...meaning it took me 10 minutes working out how to get a bottle of water out of my backpack and drink it. I still haven't flown anything...since I've no hotas binds at all...but I'll get around to suffering through that long and tiresome process eventually I suppose...if I can stomach my absulute disdain for 'master modes' that is. Even experiencing it firsthand as a turret gunner, I hated it, without reservation. All it does is add more silly and unwarranted 'push a button' complexity to what should be a fairly simple fly the ship and shoot the guns core game concept.

All in all, 3.23 isn't nearly as bad as I'd thought it would be...not good by any stretch of the imagination...but besides the truly abysmal 'master modes' clusterfarce, not dire either 🤷‍♂️
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
I have no doubts some people find SC enjoyable. There are many people out there playing bad, crappy games every day 🤷‍♂️ . And some of those will probably even stream it. No conflicts there.

But CIG is no stranger to content creator incentive “programs” either. In the case of Summit, his « always on » SC streaming seems highly unnatural especially when we consider the 3.23 : ILW sale timing and the level of brokenness he is often confronted with. It wouldn’t be too surprising if CIG has indirectly sponsored him through 3rd parties « à la » Redbull with Rexzilla, so he can bypass disclosure.
 
I have no doubts some people find SC enjoyable. There are many people out there playing bad, crappy games every day 🤷‍♂️ . And some of those will probably even stream it. No conflicts there.

But CIG is no stranger to content creator incentive “programs” either. In the case of Summit, his « always on » SC streaming seems highly unnatural especially when we consider the 3.23 : ILW sale timing and the level of brokenness he is often confronted with. It wouldn’t be too surprising if CIG has indirectly sponsored him through 3rd parties « à la » Redbull with Rexzilla, so he can bypass disclosure.
I'm way past speculating on what streamers do or don't, or will or won't do to generate attention and monies to further their completely inane content :D

I've never quite worked out why gamers feel the need to add any weight or import to their obsessive and mostly irritating contributions rather than just trying stuff out for themselves in the first place...I may be a dinosauric oddity in that sense I suppose...but all my opinions on star citizen... or anything else for that matter... are and always have been completely my own and not furthered or influenced by anyone or anything else 🤷‍♂️

The only content creators I've ever subscribed to...or paid any heed to are Soviet Womble (from ARMA days) for his irreverent take on all things ARMA, FTR...since I generally respect and share his opinions of Ci~G, Nano for everything else...since his content is absolutely hilarious, no matter what he's playing. :)
 
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I'm way past speculating on what streamers do or don't, or will or won't do to generate attention and monies to further their completely inane content :D

I've never quite worked out why gamers feel the need to add any weight or import to their obsessive and mostly irritating contributions rather than just trying stuff out for themselves in the first place...I may be a dinosauric oddity in that sense I suppose...but all my opinions on star citizen... or anything else for that matter... are and always have been completely my own and not furthered or influenced by anyone or anything else 🤷‍♂️

Its like deciding whether to buy a game based on Steam reviews. There's quite a few games i've bought in my time that got bad reviews that i enjoyed and games with good reviews that i didn't. But my decision was based on what i saw from the game itself, and not other people's opinions. Sometimes you just make bad choices though.
 
Its like deciding whether to buy a game based on Steam reviews. There's quite a few games i've bought in my time that got bad reviews that i enjoyed and games with good reviews that i didn't. But my decision was based on what i saw from the game itself, and not other people's opinions. Sometimes you just make bad choices though.
I only read Steam reviews after I've bought a game and played it for a week :whistle:

I generally know what I like...and it seems from my game history, it's 98% single player action or adventure games with the occasional single player RPG thrown in amongst them...I just don't like other people coming in and completely ruining what could otherwise be a very good game :)
 
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To be honest I very rarely buy games if the average steam review isn't at least written in blue text 😆

Although sometimes bad reviews aren't really fair. For example Starfield was mildly disappointing but was still a good game and I don't think it deserved the review bombing it got. I'm sure it will be an excellent game eventually when the creation kit has been out for a while.

I think the reason streamers stick with Star citizen is because lots of people are watching it which equals more monetization. For some of these streamers it's a job. Personally I don't watch them, although I might watch a few clips of a game if I'm interested in buying.
 
I forgot to mention the new character creator...it looks fancy but in reality, far less functionable than Bethesda's basic offerings for Fallout 4 (with the looks menu mod)...or even less than Starfield's basic character creation settings. It adds variable hair colours, a few new hairstyles and facial hair options but the physical morphing stuff really isn't worth a mention in a functioning or workable sense. It follows the Star Citizen mantra of being overly complex and almost entirely unnecessary.

sQtyEP1.png
 
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This noob review was a lot of fun...

Star Citizen from a New Player's Perspective​


Just a review from an old gamer but noob to SC.

I'd heard this game was a total scam and avoided it for all these years. Maybe it was a bad-deal back then, but now: I'm happy to report that this IS a real game with a lot to offer and a lot to do. It has incredible potential! $45 gets you into SC and that is a great deal!

Where I come from: Halo CE-Reach. Wow/Wc3/Starcraft/HotS/OW. Mass Effect. Deus Ex. Subnautica. . Elite Dangerous. No Man's Sky. Dota2. Helldivers2. Escape from Tarkov (7 years). I love spaceships, FPS combat, hot-rodding stuff, buying/selling/stealing stuff, murdering, rescuing, etc. Love PVE and PVP.

WHAT’S GOOD ABOUT IT:

Visuals. Most beautiful game I've ever seen. Most talented art-team ever. Spaceships, environments, gear. Best ever. Constant state of amazement and it runs great on a PC I built for tarkov (5800X3D / 4070ti)

Sound: Very good! Each ship has audible-personality! Guns sound good, character sounds good. A+ sound design.

Movement: Character crawls, runs, walks, climbs, jumps as you'd expect. Climbing works! Great job here. Would love a slide, but that's being greedy.

Controls: Default controls are intuitive to new players and very configurable. Basically perfect.

Ships: The ships are the star of the show. They are unique, beautiful, ugly, serious, silly, etc. The ships are CHARMING and wonderful. I love my razor, cutlass black & blue, msr, herc, avenger, redeemer, retaliator, and the eclipse (3.22)!

Flight: More involved than No Man's Sky, but simpler than Elite Dangerous. Perfect! (3.22).

Vehicles: Incredible vehicles!

FPS Gear: Great looking suits! Fun weapons. Varied fighting styles. Gear can be dropped almost anywhere.

PvE:

1 - Bounties are fun and can result in cargo to sell!

2 - Mercenary stuff is fun, I hope for more variety in the future.

3 - Running cargo makes sense and works and most importantly: involves risk! Delivery makes sense but pays terrible.

4 - Salvage: Did a session on a reclaimer as a box-stuffer. Boring but lucrative, not a fan.

5 - Investigation: cool idea but forced me to EVA in a wreck and EVA just about made this 25 year gaming + vr veteran hurl.

6 - Pay for all jobs is a bit low given what you can make doing cargo or salvage.

PvP:

1 - Is rarely fair - as it should be in an mmo. Rock Paper Scissors, outnumbering, surprise, and gear all play a part as they should. I can't believe they made space-dayz!

2 - Ruthless - perfect! Winner takes all! Day-Z/Tarkov/Rust players, this is the space game for you!

3 - Piracy. Real actual piracy. You lie in wait, ambush someone, take their cargo, sell it to a fence. BRAVO. No game has ever got this right until SC.

Crime:

1 - Can buy your way out of minor stuff - awesome!

2 - People get bounty missions for you and will wait for you outside the hangar doors: cool!

3 - You can HACK THE POLICE DB AND CLEAR YOURSELF?!? Amazing. 10/10.

4 - Jail - which can be reduced with labor, or more crime, or via escape. Awesome!

The Community. SC wouldn't be here without devoted (and spendy) players who are willing to put up with bugs and problems. Most are helpful in general chat. Some are scary-good at ship to ship combat (3.22). We didn't expect to like SC players as much as we do.

WHAT'S BAD ABOUT IT:

Servers. Servers. Servers. Everything listed above in the good section fails on the regular. You fall through those beautiful environments and die. Your quest bugs and fails or can't be completed. NPCs stand still or hover in space doing nothing or shoot you through objects and you die. Massive desync between players. We have to regularly confirm "ARE YOU ON THE ELEVATOR?!" before we push the button it's so bad. Crashes. So many crashes. Everything good or bad about Star Citizen takes a backseat to the very very poor server performance. People regularly run with r_displayinfo 1 on to monitor the server health - that is NOT good for any phase of a game from Alpha to Beta to finished. THIS PROBLEM CLOUDS EVERYTHING.

Flight (3.23): Completely changed the flight model. Less of a pain for me & my crew since we just got here. We have less to un-learn and re-learn. At first glance though: it seems worse in every way. More complicated without reason in canon or out. More difficult without being more fun. All ships feel less capable than they did 2 weeks ago when we started playing SC. Good ships are now bad etc. I can see why many veteran players who love ship to ship combat are very upset and worried. For now, I avoid ship to ship combat because it seems very broken. Will try again in a few patches.

The Focus: This game has 20 unfinished gameplay loops. There's tons to do but any/all of it may break at any point. It's like every time they have a great idea (and they have TONS of great ideas!) they run off and get it barely-up-and-running, then dash off to the next thing. I've been amazed at all the REALLY BRILLIANT ideas that are 60% implemented in a 10+ year old game...

WHAT'S UGLY ABOUT IT:

The Developers: SC has had a lot of $ come in and many years and it's still very much an alpha. IMO that's a mistake on the devs parts. They could be beta by now, even in this era of 'beta forever' development we should expect more. Focus on fleshing out fewer features and basic functionality, spend more $$ on servers. Get the game to a stable beta - still with some bugs & crashes - but out of Alpha. You have to get out of Alpha. It's been years.

The Devs continue to get away with the weirdest project-management model on earth because of:

The Community: Whether it comes from SC Veterans to noobs like me, criticism is NOT well heard in the SC community. Whatever is in the patch notes is like marching orders from a cult-leader. Any discussion on spectrum or reddit that suggests maybe the game should be more functional by now is met with fervor. It's sad because you guys deserve better than this, and these devs can definitely do better!

Recent examples: Helldivers2 publisher almost forced a bad 'feature' in, the players stood up for themselves and said "NO!" and the devs/publisher reconsidered (and that fight continues). Tarkov was exposed for its absurd level of cheating last year, and subsequently tried to change the rules of purchase & up the price. Tarkov players logged off in droves and the company reversed course (and that fight continues). We did this BECAUSE WE LOVE THE GAME.

You are the customer! SC-Devs are creating this beautiful work of art, but it's a work of art they hope to sell you, therefore: you have a SAY. You can complain, you can criticize, you can dislike a new direction. It won't kill the Devs. It will make the game better!

As of right now, it's unplayable, but I want to defend that a little. 3.23 is a big patch for SC. A lot of back-end stuff seems to have changed, and some major front-end stuff is totally different. I've barely been able to complete a quest, run cargo, fight anything, go anywhere, look in my backpack, or drink a space-gatorade. I've seen this happen with many games from WoW on up to Tarkov.

With Tarkov throwing away thousands of players and untold SCU's of good will, I had this thought: if star-citizen was beta and not alpha, it might have just picked up tens of thousands of players this month. It didn't because it doesn't have enough servers. Cue the sc-beliebers devsplaining why future quantum server meshing technology will save the day and just spending some more of their smaug-horde on servers won't help. ;)

TLDR: Beautiful! So much potential! Everything's half-finished and breaks all the time!

---

As a Tarkov/space nut, playing with a crew, they're perfectly tooled up to weather this alpha.

(And they've settled on their own Jesus tech for this year+1 salvation too: 'more servers!').

And so another year of perma-alpha is funded ;)
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
This noob review was a lot of fun...



TLDR: Beautiful! So much potential! Everything's half-finished and breaks all the time!

---

As a Tarkov/space nut, playing with a crew, they're perfectly tooled up to weather this alpha.

(And they've settled on their own Jesus tech for this year+1 salvation too: 'more servers!').

And so another year of perma-alpha is funded ;)
He offers his own summary a couple times:

“Everything listed above in the good section fails on the regular.”
 
This noob review was a lot of fun...



TLDR: Beautiful! So much potential! Everything's half-finished and breaks all the time!

---

As a Tarkov/space nut, playing with a crew, they're perfectly tooled up to weather this alpha.

(And they've settled on their own Jesus tech for this year+1 salvation too: 'more servers!').

And so another year of perma-alpha is funded ;)

He's not wrong, they do need to get out of alpha.

Someone needs to draw a line of what makes the cut for release and focus on that and ignore everything else. Yeah, we will still dump on it, deservedly so, but at least they could get something stable out the door, even if it means limiting it to 50 player servers and dropping some cruft.

But of course, they would lose the alpha shield and have to break their promise of stop selling ships after release.
 
This noob review was a lot of fun...



TLDR: Beautiful! So much potential! Everything's half-finished and breaks all the time!

---

As a Tarkov/space nut, playing with a crew, they're perfectly tooled up to weather this alpha.

(And they've settled on their own Jesus tech for this year+1 salvation too: 'more servers!').

And so another year of perma-alpha is funded ;)
About sums 3.23 up perfectly...from an SC veteran's perspective like mine as well as from the reading of it, a fairly impartial outsider's. It broke stuff that didn't really need breaking and added a load of stuff that serves no real purpose in the grand scheme of things...besides that, it's OK-ish :)
 
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I forgot to mention the new character creator...it looks fancy but in reality, far less functionable than Bethesda's basic offerings for Fallout 4 (with the looks menu mod)...or even less than Starfield's basic character creation settings. It adds variable hair colours and a few new hairstyles and facial hair options but the physical morphing stuff really isn't worth a mention in a functioning or workable sense. It follows the Star Citizen mantra of being overly complex and almost entirely unnecessary.

sQtyEP1.png
I've seen at least 3 images of people recreating themselves in SC and they were very good to almost perfect. Do you have an idea how they managed that?
I can't remember where I saw them (happened to stumble on them), definitely some kind of forums.
 
I've seen at least 3 images of people recreating themselves in SC and they were very good to almost perfect. Do you have an idea how they managed that?
I can't remember where I saw them (happened to stumble on them), definitely some kind of forums.
The new character creator includes a facial recognition/capture feature if you use a webcam...I recreated a rough representation of myself in that offering without the facial recognition thing, I don't have my webcam fitted since except for using it for video calls when my wife was in hospital, I never used the thing...and minus my waist length and almost white hair (or my badly broken nose). I really didn't like any of the long hair offerings in the character creator or the colouring options for them...the nearest I could get to my real hair was looking like Billy Connolly on a really bad hair day :D

The created image with that particular haircut is a fairly decent approximation of me from 25 or so years ago when I was in my 40's...with the addition of non military issue but currently sported face furniture.... and minus the trademark rugby players busted nose that I've had since my late teens... Simply for the reason that neither the character creator or morphing toolset do convincingly busted noses :)
 
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