Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

sovapid

sovapid
Agony_Aunt said:
"Powerplay will not work like that" - you mean if you designed it right? Remember, its FD!

But what you are saying is then you wouldn't get anything for blowing up an enemy power's ship.... so, what would be the point of doing PvP then?

Sure, we don't want to get into this discussion here, so let's take it back to SC.

Basically its my stance that if you introduce a situation with competitive PvP in a game, if there is no real loss for the person dying, then some people will coop instead of compete. There is nothing to be lost in this alpha for dying. So, why not die a few times to help out a friend and they will do the same?

Whether its right or wrong from a moral perspective, CIG have not said its against the rules, they are not punishing anyone for doing it (and how could they really?), so its understandable why people are doing it.

So, gods help me for saying this, but i'm with Montoya on this.

Now, excuse me while i go drink some chlorine.
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I like pad ramming ships for maximum annoyance. There is nothing in game that prevents this. However CIG has come out and said "don't do it" and "report anyone you see doing it".

I'd be happy (well, I guess less annoyed) if I could report these cheaters. Would also have cut down on the new Discords that were set up because these cheaters to actually have in game friends they can kill.

Had in game chat all mad at me last week because I kept killing people who were trying to kill trade. Couldn't really post it because it was so expletive laden it wasn't postable here.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Agony_Aunt said:
"Powerplay will not work like that" - you mean if you designed it right? Remember, its FD!

But what you are saying is then you wouldn't get anything for blowing up an enemy power's ship.... so, what would be the point of doing PvP then?

Sure, we don't want to get into this discussion here, so let's take it back to SC.

Basically its my stance that if you introduce a situation with competitive PvP in a game, if there is no real loss for the person dying, then some people will coop instead of compete. There is nothing to be lost in this alpha for dying. So, why not die a few times to help out a friend and they will do the same?

Whether its right or wrong from a moral perspective, CIG have not said its against the rules, they are not punishing anyone for doing it (and how could they really?), so its understandable why people are doing it.

So, gods help me for saying this, but i'm with Montoya on this.

Now, excuse me while i go drink some chlorine.
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I really, really don't want to derail this thread because its unfair I can't respond in full but:

Powerplay works because the PvP is decoupled from outcome: i.e. its not the ship exploding that matters, its the task undertaken completing that does.

So- exploding is just failure, but you can try again because the objective is you carrying x to y safely. 1:1 PvP is CQC, Powerplay is not that.

You can't corrupt that if its set up right (Sandro went a fair way to do that with weighting, and I went further still- you know where to read all this where I lay it out in detail).

Any PvP in SC should be the same- objectives met are the outcome.

The 'point' of PvP in this context is that players can do what NPCs can't- in ED NPCs are not persistent enough to hunt or be lethal enough to stop people.
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
sovapid said:
I used to play a lot of Battlefield. If you set up with a friend from the other team and a medic to kill, revive, kill, revive you would get banned by DICE.

But I agree, this is just more CIG incompetence and a community of lazy and entitled players.

And sure there would be a ways for FD to police it. But they would never be courageous enough to do it.
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DICE has experience designing MP. Others don't and keep milling around.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Rubbernuke said:
I really, really don't want to derail this thread because its unfair I can't respond in full but:

Powerplay works because the PvP is decoupled from outcome: i.e. its not the ship exploding that matters, its the task undertaken completing that does.

So- exploding is just failure, but you can try again because the objective is you carrying x to y safely. 1:1 PvP is CQC, Powerplay is not that.

You can't corrupt that if its set up right (Sandro went a fair way to do that with weighting, and I went further still- you know where to read all this where I lay it out in detail).

Any PvP in SC should be the same- objectives met are the outcome.

The 'point' of PvP in this context is that players can do what NPCs can't- in ED NPCs are not persistent enough to hunt or be lethal enough to stop people.
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What you say about PvP can be gamed as well, and if they push more PvP into it, it will increase the options for gaming the system. Hell, they do it with PvE as well by 5Cing - which i know FD have taken some small steps to address and you have also put forward suggestions to improve that.

My point is, with regards to what is going on with SC, there is no surprise people are doing this. Should, could, would, don't come into it. It is what it is.
 

Firkrayt

Firkrayt
sovapid said:
This ones for you agony....



robertsspaceindustries.com

Why are haters still here? - Star Citizen Spectrum

I am honestly dumb founded by the sheer number of people that stick around in spectrum just to post and comment about how they don't believe in the project anyone or don't think that the game will...
robertsspaceindustries.com robertsspaceindustries.com
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Oh, I have an answer to that question. it's because those sticking to Spectrum paid Christopher to get the game in 2015, as was promised.
No player paid for RDR2, CP2077, your-name-here before it was done (or almost done).
Rockstar, CDPR, Suqare Enix can spend their money however they want.
CI-G, on the other hand, is embezzling backers' money, not their own.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Agony_Aunt said:
What you say about PvP can be gamed as well, and if they push more PvP into it, it will increase the options for gaming the system. Hell, they do it with PvE as well by 5Cing - which i know FD have taken some small steps to address and you have also put forward suggestions to improve that.

My point is, with regards to what is going on with SC, there is no surprise people are doing this. Should, could, would, don't come into it. It is what it is.
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It honestly can't- Powerplay PvP comes from having the equivalent of the British Bulldogs playground game- that is, you have runners, and catchers (just in this case you have eleven of these games going at once and interacting). The game is moving something enough times in a certain timeframe with catchers trying to slow or stop. You can't game a power by deliberately being bad at flying for it- there is no merit scarcity and being a patsy for easy kills is hugely inefficient (its one merit currently).

People may be doing it in SC, but they are not the same.
 

Mole HD

Mole HD
I agree with Mike on this issue...and for the same reasoning, why I detested Powerplay in Elite. I did try, since being primarily a PvE player, the premise behind PP was attractive from that standpoint...however, it was so broken for the plethora of reasons discussed ad nauseum on the relevant topic threads I didn't even make it to week 3 before giving up in disgust.

Mike is right that Ci¬G have fostered the whole cult of entitlement with SC...and still openly continue to do so. It's an exclusive club mentality where achievement is lauded by how much you've spent with nothing to earn in game to promote a healthy gaming environment. When you see a ship in game, you know the person has it simply because they've bought it for cash...whether they've backed...or played... for 1 hour or 5 years.

It's probably why I like my Pirate Caterpillar skin so much...It's one of the few items in Star Citizen you have to earn in game, you can't buy it in the RSi store or cheat your way to getting it (unlike the Vanduul helmet) so I know if I see another pirate Caterpillar in game, they've earned it too... unless they've bought one of the megabucks completionist or Legatus packages...otherwise you have to go do the PvE pirate swarm in arena commander to earn it...after first buying a Caterpillar from the RSi store to fit it on of course. You're not avoiding that paywall even when you have to earn the extra cosmetics to fit on your bling barge ;)

Star Citizen is a cult of haves versus have nots, irrelevant if you're a PvP or PvE player...in SC even that distinction means absolutely nothing.

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Mole HD

Mole HD
StuartGT said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/jbjp0p
Source: https://reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/jbjp0p/i_actually_encountered_a_legitimate_cheater_on/
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It's just a plain old no-clip hack...quite popular with the ever increasing ranks of cheaters in SC as a whole. That video wasn't the first time I've seen it in use either, I've had experience of someone using that particular no-clip hack first hand....at the same place strangely enough, SC Kareah.

You can dismiss quite a lot of the reported 'cheats' with the SC physics being as they are, it's not like it's hard to clip through the scenery or anything. Just play for 20 minutes and it'll do it all on it's lonesome with no input from you at all... but there are a raft of SC cheats and hacks available and they have been for some time...most for sale, most used on burner accounts. With SC rapidly attracting the particular breed of cheaters associated with Fortnite and the like...it's hardly surprising :)
 
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Vetinari

V
OK how do you know its cheating and not just glitching? I dont see any difference between that video and the tons of others sowing glitches (sandworm eating ship yesterday for example), its just this glitch gave the other player an advantage by hiding them or something?

What makes it cheating as opposed to just a glitch advantage that the player had nothing to do with?
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Mole HD said:
It's just a plain old no-clip hack...quite popular with the ever increasing ranks of cheaters in SC as a whole. That video wasn't the first time I've seen it in use either, I've had experience of someone using that particular no-clip hack first hand.

You can dismiss quite a lot of the reported 'cheats' with the SC physics being as they are, it's not like it's hard to clip through the scenery or anything... but there are a raft of SC cheats and hacks available and they have been for some time...most for sale, most used on burner accounts. With SC rapidly attracting the particular breed of cheaters associated with Fortnite and the like...it's hardly surprising :)
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Imagine what it will be like should it ever actually release! :O
 
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