Viajero
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Projects of undelivered games that run into technological blockers, are poorly managed or suffer from chronic incompetence for almost a decade also have bugs.
Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
- Thread starter Yaffle
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Projects of undelivered games that run into technological blockers, are poorly managed or suffer from chronic incompetence for almost a decade also have bugs.
Take a moment to consider what Star Citizen would be like if backers, in the process of testing an alpha build, had the tools to not just test "normal" linear scenarios and progression, but also had the tools to test more extreme case and "what if" scenarios free of personal account real-life money investments, and could reinstate the testing parameters at their own behest should servers or bugs cause the test to be corrupted?
The software is alpha.
The product is released.
Now let's consider what the actual alpha testing environment in Star Citizen is:
1) Account-Asset Based - You can only reliably test what you own. If you don't own it, you can't dictate the use of the subject at your own discretion.
2) End-User Focused - Backer testers do not have access to dev/debug tools to circumvent the end-user experience in the face of alpha instability issues. Any session-ending issue results in starting from a step back, if not a full reset.
3) Tribalistic Exclusivity - If you aren't a major streamer/influencer who is promoting the product, you do not have the communication line to get in-game issues resolved in real-time. Only a combination of high pledge numbers, potential audience, and sworn fealty will grant you access to real-time dev/GM response, all others are in the pleb pile.
1) Account-Asset Based - You can only reliably test what you own. If you don't own it, you can't dictate the use of the subject at your own discretion.
2) End-User Focused - Backer testers do not have access to dev/debug tools to circumvent the end-user experience in the face of alpha instability issues. Any session-ending issue results in starting from a step back, if not a full reset.
3) Tribalistic Exclusivity - If you aren't a major streamer/influencer who is promoting the product, you do not have the communication line to get in-game issues resolved in real-time. Only a combination of high pledge numbers, potential audience, and sworn fealty will grant you access to real-time dev/GM response, all others are in the pleb pile.
In my opinion, CR should have developed the game engine first and then the game.
Can you give more details ?
Haven't seen CIG resolving issues in real-time for anyone.
I use the term "issues" loosely. For example, in Evocati testing where the qualifiers I listed certainly apply, a dev/GM observing the test is more likely on hand to spawn resources (ships, for example). In the wide-access PU wild with the rest of customers, as you've noted, that behavior is rare, if not nonexistent.
However, this behavior is suspiciously flipped when certain influential streamers are performing for their audience. Rexzilla and his ZDF streams are a very good example of this. Devs were on hand to ensure that only Rex and his ZDF buddies were populating their instance, and actively disconnected anyone who wasn't part of the "show". I would say this qualifies as an "issue" if you consider "I need a platform free of distractors in order to perform" an issue.
Finally, devs have been seen spawning/flying assets for streamer for literal theatre spectacle, for no reason other than to provide a streamer with an artificial "emergent gameplay moment" for the sake of marketing. My favorite example of this came from this year. I would say this uniquely qualifies as an "issue" if you consider "I need some theatre to get your potential customer base hyped for myself and you" an issue.
I believe it has been documented devs being on streams with high profile streamers setting things up for them. It was strongly suspected that Rexshilla was spun up private servers to do his shennanigans on.
I'm guessing others can provide actual examples.
Oh that was my favourite as well. How he totally ignores the ship coming in then when he notices it he looks away and pretends he hasn't seen it, then turns back acting all surprised.
100% he knew in advance a dev was going to appear with that ship, which puts him firmly in the paid shill camp to me. Maybe CIG don't pay him directly, but they certainly pay him in terms of increased viewship from this sort of thing.
Very basic post -
I just re-installed star citizen after 2 years with it not on my 'C' drive (3.12)
If they ever get this right it will be Phenomenal.
At the moment it is a Buggy mess of Graphics, key binds, continuity, missions, I could go on.
Strangely if it is running rubbish FPS then you increase the quality and it sorts it out, I can confirm this even on my old piston driven equipment.
It is still Alpha.. (Why?) so it Can be slightly forgiven.
It's not like they have a half decent budget, so they are doing the best they can with what they've got, the poor dears.
Pug
I just re-installed star citizen after 2 years with it not on my 'C' drive (3.12)
If they ever get this right it will be Phenomenal.
At the moment it is a Buggy mess of Graphics, key binds, continuity, missions, I could go on.
Strangely if it is running rubbish FPS then you increase the quality and it sorts it out, I can confirm this even on my old piston driven equipment.
It is still Alpha.. (Why?) so it Can be slightly forgiven.
It's not like they have a half decent budget, so they are doing the best they can with what they've got, the poor dears.
Pug
I bet 97.5% of them don’t b.tch about it2.5% of backers play per day, according to Chris. Presumably the other 97.5% are finding their fun elsewhere
I bet 97.5% of them don’t b.tch about it
I bet otherwise, considering we know some backers don't play and indeed do complain about it.
I know 100% of them don't have either of the games they were promised, the expansion packs, special green boxes or their space-ship-shaped USB drives
lol, it is not strongly suspected by anyone that actually tried to get into one of his servers and kill him/them.
I bet 97.5% of them don’t b.tch about it
I’d imagine many of them have forgotten about the game entirely.
The tiny active player base does enough complaining for everyone really. Here are some fun long-term backer perspectives from the last week, for example:
You should probably go and complain at them for complaining
Oh, they do...just not on hereI bet 97.5% of them don’t b.tch about it
Now you are using both hyperbole, and bad faith.
First, either you totally misundersood my post, or you do not understand what "pay the price" means. There's a punitive timer attached to prison system, which has zero place in an alpha version of any software. In an alpha, you should be able to bypass that timer and spawn somewhere else.
Now for the "idris attack", in an alpha, the opposite would be needed (spawn that attack at will, so you can test it out completely without any strings attached).
"Skip mining", that makes zero sense. Goal of an alpha is testing features, not bypassing them. Again, the prison timer is not a feature, you do not need to test this as you do nothing while the timer runs. An alpha would allow you to bypass that timer and continue active testing.
"Skip trading", makes no sense either. Alpha is for testing, so you might want to test all trading features. Actually one thing they could do is "spawn cargo" so you can see how it influences servers, trade prices, etc.
"Skip missions", why ? In an alpha, you would just have the debug visualization of mission triggers so you know you are actually properly triggering different stages of the mission.. so you can immediately report which one is bugged or not.
"Give instant profit" that's what they do in PTU, and Evocati.
Read above, and check the answers from Bootcha. I'm ok with bugs in an alpha, i'm ok with giving a few hours of my time every few months to check out these bugs. I'm not ok with CiG labelling the product as released though, and treating their customers like idiots who have to be milked from cash, and most of all my whole point was them slapping these in-game punishments for said bugs that we have zero control on.
You're trying to be hyperbolic, but unfortunately for for the point you're tying to make, you're actually absolutely right. All of those things would — indeed must — exist in a good alpha. They don't in this one. This should tell you everything you need to know about its viability as a testing environment and the competence of the “developers” creating it.
That's the whole problem: SC is not an alpha because it serves none of the purposes of an alpha build. Zero. It is only there to trick suckers into handing off money because they are too ignorant about the inner (and outer) working of games to differentiate pointless surface fluff from actual development, and can therefore be trivially fooled into thinking that more idiotic fluff means there's anything at all deeper underneath.
Wait, wait, wait. According to backer maths, RDR2 should have been disqualified because it was released in… oh… 2016! At least! And also because all the Steam awards went to the wrong game (grumblegrumblegrumble). So there.Nice to see RDR2 got the overall game of the year award on Steam...well deserved. Still playing the story mode after 2 years on 2 platforms
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I'm not gonna lie. Fluff IS good if it's done right and/or injected into the game at strategic points. And if done right, could considerably extend the shelf life (see Skyrim) of any gaming title. With RDR2, it's a pity the devs didn't care to do just that. Since corporate channeled their focus towards multiplayer. So single player -- despite the many immersive additions - still got shafted for online. It's a pity we couldn't run a small side business from the online component with John.Nice to see RDR2 got the overall game of the year award on Steam...well deserved. Still playing the story mode after 2 years on 2 platforms
The Moonshine shack and trader (using Uncle in Cripps role) would've been perfect additions to John's story in the Epilogue. They could've added more bounty hunting contracts as well. This would've made for a nice lead up to how RDR 1 started (when the Pinkerton's pressed John into becoming a BH for them to hunt down his gang).Anyways, the game is finally receiving the love it deserves from the PC modding community over at Nexusmods.com. RDR2 now has some really creative game play mods which add a decent variety of emergent game play activities.
Especially the scripting mods
www.nexusmods.com
Like this one which allows you to finally rob bank tellers:
www.nexusmods.com
And this one that actually allows you to USE the bank the way it was intended by game design. I mean really R*:
www.nexusmods.com
This one adds the single player version of the online Hunting Wagon. Seriously R*.
www.nexusmods.com
Especially the scripting mods
Mod categories at Red Dead Redemption 2 Nexus - Mods and community
www.nexusmods.com
Like this one which allows you to finally rob bank tellers:
Bank Robberies
Rob any of the supported banks in Red Dead Redemption 2! Simply point your gun at the teller and have fun robbing. Expect to be wanted by the law.
www.nexusmods.com
And this one that actually allows you to USE the bank the way it was intended by game design. I mean really R*:
Banking The Old American Art
Banking The Old American Art - a banking mod gives ingame banks a purpose. Now you can deposit your money to not lose it when you die!.
www.nexusmods.com
This one adds the single player version of the online Hunting Wagon. Seriously R*.
Hunting Wagon
Allows you to store pelts & hunted animals on the back of a hunting wagon. The hunting wagon will spawn at your camp and can be located using the map or radar.
www.nexusmods.com
As to WTH they didn't add small but impactful game features like these continues to completely confound me
Similarly, CR needs to release the damned single player title. Use that (and the drip feed DLC/feature creep they keep adding) as bait to keep the MMO crowd and whales hooked for the multiplayer release. Releasing SQ42 as a GAME with the promised chapters-- regardless of it's alpha/beta state -- would finally give the fan base something the digest and rally around. And also reaffirm CR's increasingly damaged reputation as one of the greybeard pioneers/visionaries in the gaming industry.
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