Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Pledge includes 20 years of pre-alpha?

Does that mean another 20 years on top of the 10 years the game has already been in pre-alpha?
That depends from which point you count beginning of the development...because you know they move their office and Magic Germans arrived late to the party + engine switch and Ben Lesnick have terrible headaches migraine for first few years....so who knows....also CIG "promised" the "possibility" of early-beta release after 25 years and that will be added in the latest Roadmap:LOL:
 
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But with those numbers (percentage of light speed velocities), you can't even see or evade the round. Visually, there should be no difference with a invisible laser for the target (you don't see the round coming). What you talk about is more realistic, but it's more fun to be at least able to evade the round several km away of the Idris (like in the video I've posted).
The Idris-M railgun offer something faster than a torpedo/missile but slower than the exodus laser beam of the Idris-K. It offers more variety to the gameplays of the Idris.

thats precicelsy the idea behind it....why do you think weapons and vehicles of war today become faster and faster?

I get where you are coming from because yeah, it would be almost impossible to implement. Thats all it is.......stating the facts such weapons in a way that supports or enhances gameplay but the fact remains. Laser beams being red or green is equally unrealistic and trust me...those things have been criticised and ridiculed just as well at the time. The same applies to SCs railgun tech which is remarkably weak or simply no railgun tech to begin with. Thats all this is...stating the facts.

Sure you can. Just move around a tiny amount and it is no longer focused, sufficiently concentrated, or even generally coherent any more. And that's before we get into matters such as light-speed lag.

The same applies to gun rounds today. Its not like people wait till they see the shot or round then start to move out of the way. If a gun is pointed at you the question only is if the gunner is on target or not, your own actions dont really matter (they do, just not when you start moving the moment you realize you are being shot at....its too late already at that point). For that reason pre-emtpive dodging is a thing and has been for the last few centuries (ever since bows entered the equation really). You would dodge a laser the same way you would dodge a conventional gun round.....trust into the gunner missing you entirely or make it as hard as possible for him.


Well yes, but you'll still get all that energy that it dumps to you. Maybe not in such intensity, but if said laser is some kind sci-fi stuff it will pump out pretty high amounts of energy.

just slap some ice on it. Duh, I swear it takes a caveman to tell you guys how stuff works :D


Thanks. I wondered then what one should need to have in terms of weapon tech to really have laser gun instead of firearm. It would need to be really quite much better than typical firearm to be adopted. Typical firearm is nowadays pretty good in its job.

As far as I know its because of energy required to use such weapons. You need to be able to focus light enough to make it penetrate solid stuff (heat damage) which is an engineering matter but same as putting your railgun into a standard 220 Volt power outlet you would need a car or cart pulling along in order to house the generator or battery housing the energy levels required to reach the intensity for the laser to become weaponized

Tanks are a thing because the forces involved require such massive/solid housing to contain them that the resulting weight is immobile, at least for a foot soldier. Theres also stuff like recoil to consider. Aircraft today are able to pull 20G manouvers but whats the point if you kill your pilot by doing so? Star Citizen has a railgun shoulder mounted weapon and it behaves like a missile launcher mostly because there is no recoil or effect on the shooter. Its just CIG using a cool term for something thats not what its supposed to be.

Humanity has lots of great ideas, not only in regards to weapons (tho creativity in order to bash somebody elses head in is remarkable....peaceful species indeed...) and what makes them fantasies or unreachable usually are the lack of power. Given enough power you could theoretically even bend laws of physics and humanity hasnt learned to harness those levels yet.


And in more general terms, your post highlights what CIG should be doing... innovating... coming up with exciting new weapons, and defenses and other tools/functions. They have a huge opportunity here. Sure they should implement the traditional solutions, but they need some uniqueness, something quintessentially "Star Citizen". Because atm I see very little. They rely far too much on copying other franchises and old tropes. And no, bird shaped spaceships with metal feathers don't count. They need to be at least semi-believable.

I can believe that a lot of developers, designers and authors actually research the topics they dabble in to come to realistic results or approach reality in a way that enables the audience to "connect" with the provided content. That means that these people after a certain period of self-education and research achieve a level of understanding that allows them to move vectors or change stats slightly without making the whole thing ridiculous or unbelievable. You could chose the easy route and just call it magic to begin with but thats not fun, not engaging and just the lazy way to do it. Flight simulator isnt the "most realistic flight sim" because its actually doing all that stuff. The game is faking it just well enough to transport or mimick reality. Which requires a solid understanding of reality. Thats not what happens in Star Citizen. CIG is like a bunch of monkeys just hacking away at the keyboard, changing numbers at a whim hoping it ll all come together.

I watched a video with a physics scientist who mentioned that he has a love-hate relationship with science fiction authors simply because many technologies written about 50 years ago have become a reality even tho the author at the time didnt know HOW....he simply had a basic understanding of the thing and envisioned a result so he didnt simply make up stuff (even tho he did) but wrote from as a kind of educated guess so people like him (the scientist) are putting in the effort and fight for every inch of gain while sci-fi authors reap the rewards without doing any of that....I find that kind of funny at the time ^^

A great example for research allowing quality is Joe Haldemanns "Forever War" which describes and outlines the problems of relativistic travel and warfare in a realistic setting in 1974. Its not like he is inventing relativity but he uses a demonstration that allows people without a scentific understanding to understand the issue and make folks go "huh...I didnt think of that"....in short....its engaging and entertaining.

You have to do the work anyway but how good that work is going to be depends mostly on how much effort you put into it beforehand. In terms of game development this would be a design paper or a knowledge base. Star Citizen had access to experts in regards to physical laws in motion and still managed to botch up its flight model. Anti-gravity is a technology that can shape your entire game simply because of the wide range of applications that a mastery over such technology would allow. In Star Citizen anti-gravity is just a comfortable excuse ("graviton" fluid in pipes??!!!) to catch up with a lazy effort. Because nobody at CIG understood or thought of the problem at hand.

Thats CIG in a nutshell really. They have these high ambitions but no idea or foundation how to do it. And all their effort goes into shoe horning or faking it. SCs lack of innovation is no surprise when you consider that CIG maybe has no idea what they are doing. So a lot of things look like other things from other games or follow the same effect (VR, shadows, ray tracing the list goes on). And even tho there is no "new idea" anymore these days (everything has been done before) you could at least take an existing idea and continue it in a way that makes it innovative. Has Star Citizen done that in the last 8 years? Has anything out of CIG been innovative because that too is a praise thats floating around undeserved told by people who dont understand what the word means


Haha, Montoya (no link, not giving that clicks) is happy that SC's development has gone on so long that it has outlasted Inside Gaming, who have a history of bashing on SC.

Yes Montoya, this is good right? That SC's development has gone on so long other things come to the end of their lives. Maybe think about that a little, you're not getting any younger!

When things go on so long that the loser of the pack outlasts everybody else then the loser of the pack automatically becomes the winner of the race. Thats the mentality on display here ^^ Humans are known as "evolutions pinnacle" or "highest form of life" today but our ancestors were hiding in caves and picking on left-overs to sustain themselves. Only when the stronger species died or got killed was humanity able to claim that title.


They also had a dig at Cyberpunk but you don't see CP2077 fans getting bent out of shape over it. Or maybe you do... fans are wierd.

Its probably happening just the same only CP2077 isnt as tiny as Star Citizen so whatever happens in Star Citizen happens across the same 3 or 4 places because its the same 200 or 300 people spending time on it. And this threadnaught being one of the SC hotspots hehehe


That's because Star Citizen is a cult. It's really specific to this game. Like i mentioned some time ago, there was this French paper mag who published a critical article on SC and in return got their paper mailbox filled with hate mail, and even death threats. Who sends death threats over a video game ? And an unfinished one at that.
While CP2077 is just another AAA title like others - it's got the usual problems of open-world RPG at launch which got solved pretty quickly or are getting solved as we speak, and just like CDPR previous games they'll publish a GOTY version that's the actual "complete edition" if you are able to wait for that one. It's a more general problem in the industry (publishers pushing for an early release then patch later) but it's another topic entirely, the fact remains it's a finished game, you can complete it (i did, twice) without being held back by show stopper bugs. While SC is still lacking pretty much everything in its core aspects (MMO networking, proper persistence, all basic game loops, working physics, etc.) and work has not even started on some of these core aspects 8 years in, not to mention the SQ42 joke.

We discussed this. Death threats over video games are nothing new and not specific to Star Citizen. Every game has its group of fanboys who take things too far and do stuff that borders on the criminal.What makes Star Citizen unique is the concentration of such people who also are the vocal majority. It really gives the impression that most SC backers are rabid cultists or fanatics and I can believe people who claim that this isnt the case but what does it matter when the actual minority manages to taint your whole repuation? You not being fanatical doesnt matter if you stand by allowing fanaticism to happen. This is how Star Citizen came to its overall reputation and it not being true doesnt matter...the appearance dictates the perception.


Are there really that many in the world? And they all back Star Citizen? Explains a lot!

If you allow them to speak for you people will think you are one.
 
thats precicelsy the idea behind it....why do you think weapons and vehicles of war today become faster and faster?
I get where you are coming from because yeah, it would be almost impossible to implement.
My main point is not that it's almost impossible to implement but that realistic weapons/vehicles can't be really integrated in games like SC/ED without ruining the fun part of them. The fact is advanced war weapons and vehicle nowadays are too efficients = one shot, boom you are dead. The first to shoot is the winner. You can't really exchange fire with a Super aEgis II or a Samsung SGR-A1, it kills you or you destroy it before it sees you. Hard to have a good gameplay without cheating reality.
 
Lots of dancing around the real issues in the comments. They also badly misunderstand what OP said (or are intentionlly misrepresenting it in order to knock them down).

OP also does point out how the game is a loooong way from completion.


Laughed at this one:

if we don't have icache, server meshing and pyro by the end of this year then call the game/alpha/pre-alpha/tech demo or whatever this thing is just a money making scam!!!

Guess we best prepare a welcome for them at the end of the year.

Also many going on about it being in an alpha state, not ready for release (remember, game being criticized, its alpha, game being praised, already best game ever) but nobody mentioned CR's "playable now narrative"
 
It's good to see SalteEMike smiling, laughing and having fun playing.

Oh wait, he switched to Minecraft.
More context from SA
I watched SalteMike play SC for a while today, his server spawned no npcs, and his ship kept being stored whenever he got out for 5 mins. He was not amused. Said 2020 has been progressively worse for networking, and its worse now than ever. Eventually he gave up and played minecraft. Poor Mike.
 
Watched some parts of last Failuretoreport's. Boredom trying to make anything substantial, halfway through after another 30K he clipped through the terrain. He exited the mess and went playing RDR 2 online with his friend.
 
My main point is not that it's almost impossible to implement but that realistic weapons/vehicles can't be really integrated in games like SC/ED without ruining the fun part of them. The fact is advanced war weapons and vehicle nowadays are too efficients = one shot, boom you are dead. The first to shoot is the winner. You can't really exchange fire with a Super aEgis II or a Samsung SGR-A1, it kills you or you destroy it before it sees you. Hard to have a good gameplay without cheating reality.

Personally, I was enjoying M1 Tank Platoon and Falcon 3 in the 90s and Operation Flashpoint in the early 00s, all of which pretty much consisted in one-shot kills. These days, DCS and ARMA3 amongst others carry the torch. "Good gameplay" doesn't have to rely on slow TTK and twitch-based point blank dogfights. Cheating reality is a choice, certainly not a necessity. And of course, it's a perfectly valid choice, which covers the vast majority of games. It simply is a weird fit when "fidelity" and "no compromise" are your buzzwords.
 
Personally, I was enjoying M1 Tank Platoon and Falcon 3 in the 90s and Operation Flashpoint in the early 00s, all of which pretty much consisted in one-shot kills. These days, DCS and ARMA3 amongst others carry the torch. "Good gameplay" doesn't have to rely on slow TTK and twitch-based point blank dogfights. Cheating reality is a choice, certainly not a necessity. And of course, it's a perfectly valid choice, which covers the vast majority of games. It simply is a weird fit when "fidelity" and "no compromise" are your buzzwords.
You can dodge if you notch!
 
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