Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

O'Roarke

O'Roarke
The reveals at CitCon this year, and last year, might be to "inoculate" their players.
Those expect a premium product that has everything and more then competing games.

The way I see it - they need to hammer into their playerbase that they'll get Odyssey's feature set, but more and prettier.
Everything shown was just a pretty concept mockup with clever camera swaps to suggest it exists. Plenty Imagine™ material.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
Mole HD said:
Yup, you can count me in on that one too, nothing like a Redeemer with all the turrets manned..or there wasn't until they nerfed it :rolleyes:

Besides all that, I regularly fly a Mole in SC with a full crew for mining jaunts, usually in one of the mining cabs rather than flying it, I much prefer the physical act of mining rather than playing taxi driver... since you can't realistically fly and operate any of the mining cabs solo in the Mole anyway. It's one of the beauties of SC amidst all the horror, you can hand the controls of your ship to someone else if you can't be bothered flying or just fancy doing some ground mining in a ROC or sitting in a turret or mining cab for a change.

Even loading up a couple of ROCS into a Corsair or MSR and taking a buddy along to use the second ROC to maximise the shared mining profits. Multicrew in SC, even as it is right now in the PU, isn't all about designating floor sweepers or playing spaceship captain...It's as much about being able to freely share assets and ships, not to mention sharing profits through being able to pay those mates (or randoms) some aUEC for coming along for the ride and for their time... doing whatever they fancy doing rather than stuffing them in a turret because it's your ship...It's one of the reasons I continue to enjoy SC sessions with some mates.

I also don't know of any other game that would let you do that either...outside of ARMA at least 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...

Space Engineers is the first modern released game that comes to mind. And depending on how loose your definition of ship is, Ultima Online (1997) could be said to have multi-crew mining ships. ;)
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
WhiteHaulerMan said:
Never understimate what 'regular' players of a game have that interests them in relation to those you personally don't have a desire to do.

For example, in my time I've:

1. Played in a 7 man crew running a U-Boat in Wolfpack
2. Sat in the back of an F-14 of another player acting as RIO in DCS, while my better half was acting as the AWACs/Command and Control using LoATC to task/guide/direct folk onto their targets and alert them to threats, in PvE and PvP game situations
3. Ran a 12 (I think) man Destroyer crew, a HE-11 gunner (in a crew of 6 or 7 I think) in WWII Online
4. As well as playing in at lower levels, have coordinated and ran company-level plus (90 player) cooperative games of ArmA.

All of which I suspect have zero interest to you, but to players like myself, is of great interest.

And I suspect a lot of Star Citizens playerbase (such as it is) based on my encounters with them are very much interested in and want.
Click to expand...

Thing is, its possible to deliver on what both groups want, those who want to multicrew and those who will be happy with NPCs.

However, when you go on Spectrum you will see people pushing back against NPC crew being too good, because that would mean those who fly with NPC crew can do everything by themselves, which invalidates their own position.

In theory though, devs can't usually make NPCs as good as players without cheating in some way, so if they just add NPC crew who just do the job (without any sort of cheating), then players will be potentially better, so its a non-issue really. They can definitely make NPCs worse, and they've talked about NPCs having ranks/skills (a bit like ED crew). So, an NPC in a turret with low skill might have more aiming jitter than a higher level one.

Main issue is can CIG make those crew positions interesting enough that people will generally be attracted to it as an option? The long travel times do work against this, when as a turret gunner you might spend literally hours with nothing to do if no enemies appear or you spend a lot of time travelling looking for targets. Someone assigned to repair might be bored out of their mind if the ship never gets damaged because the danger isn't high enough or the rest of the crew are too skilled... but on the other hand, introducing busy works won't necessarily make it more engaging either.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Factabulous said:
This comment from Jake (CiG) in Mike's stream was interesting:
View attachment 405502
This makes me think they have no intention of doing a player driven economy as some want (CiG have never said they will do one I think?). Would people bother to spend their time crafting things just to end up with NPC buying them?
Click to expand...

If i was doing it, i'd put in options for the seller to choose who they can sell to. eg: Org members only, Org members and other players, anyone including NPCs.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt

Fizzatron

Fizzatron
VR Golgot said:
// Q6:
- Question about the rotation of planets and whether at some point we're going to have elliptical systems, do you have any answers to that?

BB said:
Actually, we already have the systems in place, but they're disabled for the moment, because we've discovered a lot of effects through that.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

LOL, I read that as "We tried but failed, so we switched it off."
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Possibly just clumsy language, but interesting use of 'demo' here...

OvhL1Ba.png
 

Ed02350

E
Agony_Aunt said:
Thing is, its possible to deliver on what both groups want, those who want to multicrew and those who will be happy with NPCs.

However, when you go on Spectrum you will see people pushing back against NPC crew being too good, because that would mean those who fly with NPC crew can do everything by themselves, which invalidates their own position.

In theory though, devs can't usually make NPCs as good as players without cheating in some way, so if they just add NPC crew who just do the job (without any sort of cheating), then players will be potentially better, so its a non-issue really. They can definitely make NPCs worse, and they've talked about NPCs having ranks/skills (a bit like ED crew). So, an NPC in a turret with low skill might have more aiming jitter than a higher level one.

Main issue is can CIG make those crew positions interesting enough that people will generally be attracted to it as an option? The long travel times do work against this, when as a turret gunner you might spend literally hours with nothing to do if no enemies appear or you spend a lot of time travelling looking for targets. Someone assigned to repair might be bored out of their mind if the ship never gets damaged because the danger isn't high enough or the rest of the crew are too skilled... but on the other hand, introducing busy works won't necessarily make it more engaging either.
Click to expand...
It all depends on CIG. The real question is given what we know of the company, do we think they can achive that?
What's the chance next Citcon presenting something completely different and don't follow up on progress of what they showed in this one?
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
ECity said:
I may have seen that once or twice before. If I had to take a wild guess, the engine might think the object is underwater.
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Yep there were some classic water ones in the past where there were visual effects too. NPCs floating out of the bunker etc. Forgot about that.

Wouldn't put it past them ;)
 

WhiteHaulerMan

WhiteHaulerMan
Agony_Aunt said:
Thing is, its possible to deliver on what both groups want, those who want to multicrew and those who will be happy with NPCs.

However, when you go on Spectrum you will see people pushing back against NPC crew being too good, because that would mean those who fly with NPC crew can do everything by themselves, which invalidates their own position.

In theory though, devs can't usually make NPCs as good as players without cheating in some way, so if they just add NPC crew who just do the job (without any sort of cheating), then players will be potentially better, so its a non-issue really. They can definitely make NPCs worse, and they've talked about NPCs having ranks/skills (a bit like ED crew). So, an NPC in a turret with low skill might have more aiming jitter than a higher level one.

Main issue is can CIG make those crew positions interesting enough that people will generally be attracted to it as an option? The long travel times do work against this, when as a turret gunner you might spend literally hours with nothing to do if no enemies appear or you spend a lot of time travelling looking for targets. Someone assigned to repair might be bored out of their mind if the ship never gets damaged because the danger isn't high enough or the rest of the crew are too skilled... but on the other hand, introducing busy works won't necessarily make it more engaging either.
Click to expand...
I can see where they're coming from, I don't think its invalidating their position. Its part of the old equation, and one Elite: Dangerous suffered with (and stumbled badly I feel) in relation to multi-crew ships because, once you enter a environment which is competitive in nature, its all about ensuring you're doing the optimum thing (particularly I find in anything that puts the player in the cockpit/on the bridge of a spaceship). "Why crew up a 4 man ship if 4 one man ships can do the job better?" can become "Why crew up a 4 man ship when we could run 4 of them with AI?" (Although nothing makes my brother burst into a worrying amount of laughter like him watching the Jester AI RIO of a solo player in the F-14/F-4 in DCS deciding to 'punch out' when its code has a moment, leaving them flying a mostly useless convertible).

What you tend to find with these types of multi-crew things, is that when there's downtime, you're usually helping someone else out with an ancillary task, having a good old social chinwag while keeping your hands busy (which for folk like this is what gaming is at one of its cores), or if the engine permits, folk rotate in and out of positions for a coffee/bio break.
 

MUTILADOR

MUTILADOR
WhiteHaulerMan said:
Never understimate what 'regular' players of a game have that interests them in relation to those you personally don't have a desire to do.

For example, in my time I've:

1. Played in a 7 man crew running a U-Boat in Wolfpack
2. Sat in the back of an F-14 of another player acting as RIO in DCS, while my better half was acting as the AWACs/Command and Control using LoATC to task/guide/direct folk onto their targets and alert them to threats, in PvE and PvP game situations
3. Ran a 12 (I think) man Destroyer crew, a HE-11 gunner (in a crew of 6 or 7 I think) in WWII Online
4. As well as playing in at lower levels, have coordinated and ran company-level plus (90 player) cooperative games of ArmA.

All of which I suspect have zero interest to you, but to players like myself, is of great interest.

And I suspect a lot of Star Citizens playerbase (such as it is) based on my encounters with them are very much interested in and want.
Click to expand...
By the way, WWII Online was an impressive game, I don't know if it still exists, but if there is an online game that can teach what an online game should be, it is undoubtedly WWII ONline... All the big video game companies have a lot to learn from that beautiful gem of a game.
 

WhiteHaulerMan

WhiteHaulerMan
MUTILADOR said:
By the way, WWII Online was an impressive game, I don't know if it still exists, but if there is an online game that can teach what an online game should be, it is undoubtedly WWII ONline... All the big video game companies have a lot to learn from that beautiful gem of a game.
Click to expand...
It still trucks on, with minor changes and a core fanbase still paying their monthlys to CRS.

Amazing to think its been running for 20+ years now.
 
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