Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Yes, but that doesn't particularly matter. Remember, they're not actually using Lumberyard - they're using a very old version of CryEngine under a Lumberyard license, Daikatana-style. :p

CryEngine V has Vulkan support. But that's not the version CIG has licensed from Amazon.
This is the part that IMO is likely to cause serious headaches down the line: by now CI are full-on a game engine company. Not just making modifications required for the game, but completely reworking general features that are standard in more modern engines in order to keep up. Technology has moved on just a little in eight years since the engine choice was made (and IIRC at least four or five years since they took any upstream work from Crytek) - and due to all the other modifications they've made there's not a hope in hell they could integrate an updated upstream version from Amazon at this point.

That's not necessarily a problem, of course - after all, many other companies (including Frontier) were in the same boat; but for CI it's additional effort, and yet another moving part which has knock-on effects for everything above it while they're still building the game. Normally for long-running projects you'd start off with a loose target release date and a finger-in-the-air prediction of what hardware is going to look like by that point, which gives you a hypothetical performance target to aim for (and allows for some stability in the engine tech). I wonder if CI have such an estimate, and what it looks like if so...
 
This is the part that IMO is likely to cause serious headaches down the line: by now CI are full-on a game engine company. Not just making modifications required for the game, but completely reworking general features that are standard in more modern engines in order to keep up. Technology has moved on just a little in eight years since the engine choice was made (and IIRC at least four or five years since they took any upstream work from Crytek) - and due to all the other modifications they've made there's not a hope in hell they could integrate an updated upstream version from Amazon at this point.
They had talked about it. They have so heavily modified the core engine of Cryengine/Lumberyard that they can't anymore apply directly each new version of Lumberyard. They only pick-up what they need in each new version of LY.
 
Are those two SC videos paid for? They seem awfully like promotion pieces.

Reality...
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The Digital Foundry videos? This is what DF tweeted at the time
Source: https://twitter.com/digitalfoundry/status/1184871557300129793


Alex has been a Star Citizen fan and backer for many years
Source: https://twitter.com/Dachsjaeger/status/983734163147718658

Source: https://twitter.com/Dachsjaeger/status/574259561709895680


He's apparently quite active on Resetera but I don't use that website
 
They had talked about it. They have so heavily modified the core engine of Cryengine/Lumberyard that they can't anymore apply directly each new version of Lumberyard. They only pick-up what they need in each new version of LY.
Those are contradictory statements. Either they can pick up what's new in each version of Ly or they can't. And they're not even using Ly.
 
The simple and most readily acceptable and consistent answer is also the most [ scary | laughable | mind-boggling ] one: they don't actually have any PG tech worth the name. It's all just tile-laying of hand-made maps, and those maps take time to create (to say nothing of locking them down) to CRobber's ever-changing standards. If nothing else, that explains some of the ugly maps generated and shown off a while back, where there was obvious repetition of large terrain features such as mountains and rivers. A 2.0 verion has ostensibly been implemented since then, but it's not like that eliminates the possibility that it's still just tile-laying, only with a larger set of tiles and possibly some less obvious stitching and blending.
It's absolutely tile-laying (and it's what the procgen engine does), see my post on the page before. Each tile is handcrafted. You can kinda see the tiling from orbit, and also the equator line sometimes. Depends on planets, and how much repetition there is. It's quite obvious on Arccorp for instance.
 
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I was sitting in the room for minutes, doing nothing but turning around or standing still, FPS was constant sub 20, 15 pretty stably.
Clearly you don't understand asset loading ;)
t least expect 60 FPS when standing still inside a cubicle
Anything else screams bad optimization, whether it be DX9, 10, 11, 12, Vulkan.
"It's an alpha"!!
You can't run SC with your spec, no need to try the alpha if you don't have 8 gb of free ram.
@Agony_Aunt told you so! ;)
Star Citizen seems to have flown under the radar of mainstream gaming YouTube so far.
They gone stealth, Theranos-style.
 
If you shill that hard for Scam Citizen you'd sell your soul for anything and can't be trusted anymore.
Even someone despising CIG can be impressed by the graphical tech aspect of SC and what have been done in this domain. It's hard to deny them some efficiency on the graphical part for a game of this scale...
 
My God! It's been over a year since I last checked in on Star Citizen. I'm utterly amazed this smoke 'n mirrors vapourware show is still running, and now - if I understand the last few pages correctly - they're refactoring a roadmap in order to produce a roadmap that shows when Squadron 42 will be released!!!
CIG's provided countless hours of hilarity and laughs over the past six years but I'm stunned that people are still giving them money!
 
That's understandable if you are visible to those ships or very close, but i'm talking about being in the spawn room on microtech, not even close to the starport. Ok, again, even if it has to load those assets, once loaded, the stress on the system should pass, and framerate should go up.

It doesn't.

I was sitting in the room for minutes, doing nothing but turning around or standing still, FPS was constant sub 20, 15 pretty stably.

I'm still not buying how Vulkan (or DX12) will offer such amazing performance gains when i can run plenty of other high graphic games that run on DX11 without a problem. Sure, i can't go whacking all settings up to max, but normally at least medium settings.

This is what i don't get about all the defenders of the game. Its been shown time and again even with god level rigs, people having framerate issues, and while i do not expect to get great performance from SC with my 4-core, 8-Gb (yes, i know, 8 Gb free is minimum), SSD, 960GTX setup, i at least expect 60 FPS when standing still inside a cubicle.

Anything else screams bad optimization, whether it be DX9, 10, 11, 12, Vulkan.

Like i said, plenty of games which are on DX11 run just fine on my comp. Only SC runs like a pile of doo-doo. So, you want to try and tell me its a problem with my rig as opposed to the game? But somehow the saviour of framerates in SC is Vulkan? Get out of here!

And as we've seen before, CIG and backers have swore that (insert magical tech) will solve specific issues, only for them to frequently fail to deliver players to the promised land of improved performance.

Now we wait on Vulkan (eta: god knowns when) and server meshing (god knows when) that will suddenly make it all sunshine and roses.

Yeah, not getting my hopes up.

Don't bother going crazy over your hardware, it is indeed on the borderline of requirements (8 GB ram and that 960 Gtx), but a big part of the problem is server side. I had just the same happening to me, trundling along the starting cubicle at 20-25 fps max, only to get sent back to the very same place,after a short but eventful session involving lots of metro waiting, the search for a drink, an unresponsive UI and finally a kick out of the server...lo and behold, same place but this time at glorious 60 fps and almost no stutter until I got out to the populated hub...whatever did happen, it was clear the new server I got put in was having a far better time than the previous one. i7 4790, 16GB, GTX 1060, SSD.
 
Even someone despising CIG can be impressed by the graphical tech aspect of SC and what have been done in this domain. It's hard to deny them some efficiency on the graphical part for a game of this scale...

at the same time the graphical representation has zero value in determining the progress of the project or the quality of the game (you know...the main point of discussion). It just seems so ridiculous to focus on the visual aspect because thats the only thing SC stands out of. And I would debate the "efficiency" somewhat fiercly when you consider that what they show has cost them the better part of 8 years and multiple hundreds of millions of dollars. Nice looking....yes. Efficient....hell no. With this kind of resources gone into it it better looks good. No need to compliment them tho when far more important stuff then the make-up looks absolutely terrible or is missing.

Its also fact that CIG is working with outdated tech so regardless how much pixels they polish and place by hand....the result is going to lose shine and fall behind the competition running on current tech and already does. It still looks nice but the difference is quite appearant under load aka when playing.

I recently wasted another few hours on SC streams because twitch rammed the suggestions down my throat based on my past selections and sampling 10+ streams over the course of 3 or 4 hours I can say.....

Star Citizen really has nothing to offer. It looks bland, what people do IF they do anything looks tedious, many dont even crank up the settings because they get more frames or less bugs on lower settings which at the same time destroys Star Citizens only strong point. I know the gorgous looking 4k pictures floating around but truth be told....I didnt see any of that in the 3 or 4 hours I skimmed through the streams. It wasnt crash city but still, whenever a stream crashed I switched to a new one which explains the 10+ streams. So I pretty much got hours of pure gameplay out of the evening.


All of the streams had one thing in common.

Brave streamers sitting through absolute boredom trying to cover travel times or crashes/bugs with funny anecdotes. Laughing with friends and the chat going absolutely bat crap crazy over nothing. I decided to just lurk in silence and observe but it was hard. I realize that there seem to be good times to be had in Star Citizen but obviously those good times are rare and hard to grasp. Most of the time it was just a boring slog. In fact watching the streams has only enforced my view on the project making it abundently clear that SC has problems the dev team seems to be unable to fix. Everybody is waiting for a miracle fix, even the devs. I m just coming out and asking if thats good project development and worth the support and trust directed at CIG.

Considering how early in development the whole project is ("early days" as stated by the devs numerous times this year alone) it seems absolutely absurd to stop and point out how nice Star Citizen looks. Why is that important? How is that a factor? Why are critical issues with performance or coding swept under the rug, ignored or sidelined while people go shill mode over the visual asthetic?

I try to take a step back and look at this from a distance and I think its very clear that CIG is focusing maniacal on the visual aspects because thats all they have. There is nothing else. No clear directive, no grasp of the projects scope or difficulties/challenges, no solutions and no design paper that outlines what needs to be done.

CIG is sabotaging itself at this time by their responses or the lack thereof. Also the results which are even worse then in previous years. This drought also brings up the people who desperately search for an angle, any angle really to justify or explain what they see as clearly as the next guy in an attempt to stay onboard and not turn "hater" out of necessity. With some people its "ah as long as it looks good I m cool with whatever happens" and thats fine by me. The issue I have is when these people with a superficial understanding or interest try to tell other people how they "got it wrong". CIG has tried to ignore its community and that hasnt worked too well. The remaining white knight defense force was unable to stem the "flow of hate" until news outlets picked up on it and spread it even more. Their one attempt of damage control has backfired spectacularly and STILL....even now....the CEO remains absent as does the head of marketing. It would be funny if it wasnt so shady and us talking about hundreds of millions of dollars at risk.

Don't bother going crazy over your hardware, it is indeed on the borderline of requirements (8 GB ram and that 960 Gtx), but a big part of the problem is server side.

Its still funny that LittleAnt tries to tell him he cannot play it with that which he obviously can. Just not very good but its very possible. I get the alpha excuse as its touted whenever bugs or performance issues are brought up but CIGs focus for the last 8 years have been polishing. And its still really really bad. I wonder if they even could improve performance anymore even if they wanted? The latest improvement in performance have been won by cutting back rather agressively on how the rendering works. It was a good first step but at the same time could mark the absolute best the team is able to achieve. If its a sign of improvement I d expect more of that and soon. With each passing month of waiting for responses or results costing millions I dont think CIG can make an uptick then sit back on their laurels and cash in for the next 6 months before they do something. This isnt how alphas are supposed to work. Thats how scams work.
 
Yeah, I took DF originally as somewhat neutral testing ground and channel for tech, but them shilling so hard for SC has basically cost them all credibility. It's just like Gamestar. If you shill that hard for Scam Citizen you'd sell your soul for anything and can't be trusted anymore.
Digital Foundry as a whole don't shill for Star Citizen; only the DF journalist Alex has been involved in covering SC/Sq42 tech. It could be argued that he is shilling for the project however, he is clearly a passionate and invested fan.

See DF's tweet about it - they see Alex's videos as a "very personal take"

Source: https://twitter.com/digitalfoundry/status/1184871557300129793?
 
My God! It's been over a year since I last checked in on Star Citizen. I'm utterly amazed this smoke 'n mirrors vapourware show is still running, and now - if I understand the last few pages correctly - they're refactoring a roadmap in order to produce a roadmap that shows when Squadron 42 will be released!!!
CIG's provided countless hours of hilarity and laughs over the past six years but I'm stunned that people are still giving them money!

Revenue growth has been better than ever. Roadmap pipeline transparency is also better than ever.

I guess backers are getting good value for money. 😛
 
Don't bother going crazy over your hardware, it is indeed on the borderline of requirements (8 GB ram and that 960 Gtx), but a big part of the problem is server side. I had just the same happening to me, trundling along the starting cubicle at 20-25 fps max, only to get sent back to the very same place,after a short but eventful session involving lots of metro waiting, the search for a drink, an unresponsive UI and finally a kick out of the server...lo and behold, same place but this time at glorious 60 fps and almost no stutter until I got out to the populated hub...whatever did happen, it was clear the new server I got put in was having a far better time than the previous one. i7 4790, 16GB, GTX 1060, SSD.

I treated myself last week and am now the proud owner of a new rig: i7-10700K / GeForce 2070 Super 8GB / 16GB RAM / SSD
(Considering my previous PC was a 3rd gen i7, I'm loving the upgrade and ED looks absolutely amazing!)
However: I wonder if this hardware will be able to handle SC when it releases (or has the HW required to run it not been invented yet?) :)
 
I treated myself last week and am now the proud owner of a new rig: i7-10700K / GeForce 2070 Super 8GB / 16GB RAM / SSD
(Considering my previous PC was a 3rd gen i7, I'm loving the upgrade and ED looks absolutely amazing!)
However: I wonder if this hardware will be able to handle SC when it releases (or has the HW required to run it not been invented yet?) :)
I've been upgrading mine this year too. Just waiting on a new graphics card. I'll see what AMD and Nvidia have to offer in the coming months.

Star Citizen is not going anywhere near my rig. :LOL:
 
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