Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Ooooh, a faithful posts on the SA thread.... This happens rarely.

I wonder if CIG have increased their marketing budget or this is genuine or just a good trolling attempt.

I have spent the last two days reading this entire thread and I have to say, for people who have no interest in Star Citizen, you all seem to have a surprising obsession with it. I have run the stats to see the posting frequency distribution per individual and the lopsided histogram says it all about the MVPs.

Anyhow, it is clear to me that you don't believe in the project. I can't honestly blame you, faith is on the wane in this century, and gaming is no exception. But for someone like me who grew up in the 80s/90s, it's heartbreaking to see that a honest attempt at recapturing the magic of old pc games before they got tainted by commercial pressure from publishers and neoliberal investors looking for their pound of green flesh (I mean dollars, not orcs). And as a game developer myself, I'm all too familiar with that kind of pressure. I wish I had the courage of Mr Roberts to roll out my own company and make my dream game, but since I can't, supporting him is the next best thing and I don't regret my now-concierge status. It's not like it was a big expense either as it only grew organically over the (growing) lifetime of the project. Sure, it's not "released" yet, but then what really is a release these days? Tetris on the GameBoy is probably the last game I'd call actually released. Everything else since is a half-broken mess pushed out too early. I mean, just look at Star Wars Squadron or Subverse. Bugs all over the place, hotfixes... I wish I hadn't gone over the 2h mark so I could refund and transfer the money to CIG instead, they would use it better.

Yeah, yeah, I know what you're going to say. "But those games are there, I can play them, Star Citizen isn't there yet". Well, the PU is. Now, make no mistakes, it is early days and I'll be honest, I wish Squadron 42 wasn't a bit late, as I have always liked Gary Oldman and starring in my own movie with him is an exciting prospect. But ultimately, it's the living/breathing "second life" (but actually well done) experience that I'm really after. And this is now what you are getting with any other game. Well, apart from Second Life, but that ship has sailed and its engine is an outdated mess. Unless SL licenses Star Engine in the future, who knows? But in the meantime, nothing on the market offers what SC does. In what other game do you physically wake up in your bed each session? It's a small thing for you but for me, it's like I'm getting out there and my other me was just sleeping in the dimension I was inactive in. Then walking to the cockpit, inspecting everything around never gets old. What other game has you landing on planets from orbit like that? Sure, Elite does, Flight Simulator is pretty, and Kerbal has nice physics, but Elite doesn't have the planetary fidelity, FS isn't procedurally generated/extensible and lacks orbit/space anyhow, and please don't even mention Kerbal for immersion.

And then there is the walking. Because ships aren't everything in a space game. If you never leave the cockpit, it's like you "are" the ship. And then, does it make a difference whether you are a character, a ship or the Kamoshika line between Akita and Aomori? Leaving the seat is what gets to your mind, reminding you that you are a human, and that the ship is not you but a temporary extension of your body. Walking is what makes it worth. Yes, I agree with some of you, sometimes it's slow, sometimes it's boring, and SC train lines are too slow (but then, that's the beauty of a fictional universe: Mr Roberts can simply decide that a new Train Tech has been discovered and double train ride speeds). But this is what makes you appreciate even more your ship's capacities, even a modest Aurora, when you get to it. Less is more, something that many of you have forgotten if I look at the posting numbers. Yes, in many ways SC is a walking simulator. But with a twist. And that twist happens to be the objectively best looking ships gaming has ever seen. I've always thought the Tiger's Claw from Wing Commander 2 couldn't be topped, but every new SC sale makes me even more wrong. And by forcing me to get out of my ship for human interactions, I get a reminder of the weak, fragile thing that a human body is. I have been chatting with many other pledgers over the years, and most agree with me. It is incredible what that walking transition achieves and how much it makes you think. It's always a little sad to log out afterwards in fact, because I have no ship to augment my feeble human body in the real world. The next best thing is my Tesla car (you may want to google 'Elon Musk', that's another visionary like Mr Roberts, and, surprise surprise, he also has space-related aspirations), but well, it's not quite the same. I'd be tempted to pass a pilot's license for the flying experience, but it's pretty expensive sadly, and the physical limitations of Cessna-class airplanes are probably frustrating when you're used to the Gladius.

Now I understand everyone doesn't feel the same, but please, try and keep this in mind before you criticize. Ask yourself "is my critic objective and constructive or am I slwoly turning into a hater?" before posting. Because negativity breeds negativity. I have seen it happen plenty of times, and not that long ago, another promising project by an old gaming visionary (Shroud of the Avatar) got dragged into that negativity spiral and left the project in a very sorry state, despite it being "released" somehow (remember my point about release?). Yes, we all want the game to happen faster, but it's already available in a limited section of its universe. And that's not even unique: the shameless ripoff that is Elite Odyssey is only available in a limited section of its own universe... And what is there, as I mentioned earlier, is unparalleled in gaming. And with blocking tech items such as vulkan, server meshing as well as the disruptive NPC subsumption that will be an inflexion point in the singularity curve of gaming, this is only getting better. Read this post again in 3 months time because I'm above going "I told you so", it's bad manners. And speaking of bad manners, please stop the misinformation and propaganda about Mr Roberts. Yes, some of his relatives work at his companies, but so what? This is not the first family business in the world, and a grown up responsibility is to provide for their family. Helping your partner/brother/niece to get a job is something we all do if we can. The only difference is the scale of the job/salary, but you know what? As a veteran of gaming and movies, Mr Roberts earned that, and it was powered by us, the fans, buying his previous games or watching his movies. So we chose to get him there. And the day I finally get to walk through the corridors of my Idris, I will try not to look too smug as you are there, lined up to salute me while working to save for your own ship.
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Awww.. he spoiled it!

Obviously, I don't believe a word from the garbage I posted above.
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He goes on to say

And if anyone believed, even for a split second, that my post above was genuine, well, I guess it's part of the beauty of SC. It's sufficiently crazy by now that it becomes harder each day to tell what's real and what isn't. Like, those Star Kitten helmets and advertisements? I'd swear this is a late April's fool. But then again, it probably would sell, so...
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Agreed, the faith of some backers means posts like that are totally believable.
 

Vetinari

V
Ask yourself "is my critic objective and constructive or am I slwoly turning into a hater?" before posting. - fair enough question

the shameless ripoff that is Elite Odyssey is only available in a limited section of its own universe. - oh dear, they failed to ask themselves the same question

Yes, some of his relatives work at his companies, but so what? - Are they worth the money is the question?

This is not the first family business in the world, and a grown up responsibility is to provide for their family. - Not a family business, its paid for by other people who were guaranteed results. 'Mr Roberts' salary looks after his family. Other people should not be fleeced to pay for them as well. Backers are providing for his family.
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
LittleAnt said:
Never said 2021 ;)
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Yep, which just makes it all the more fatuous...

Miracle tech definitely coming! Yes it's well over 2 years late, and they're clearly having an absolute nightmare getting it to work, let alone retroactively fitting it into a game never designed with it in mind, and everything is in a broken placeholder state in the meantime on the networking and design front....

But it's definitely coming! Bank on that!

We need an emoji to represent the sheer daftness of posting as you do on this topic. How about:

:eek:
 

Vetinari

V
Viajero said:
Another software developer weighs in... But this time it is critical!

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/mntvdo
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/mntvdo/a_critical_look_at_star_citizens_development_pace/
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Comments section:

It′s like driving a train still in construction while building the tracks with money taken from passengers you find along the way.

Yeah but the train is the snow piercer, and it just drives in circles around the world infinitely while the whales and the executives have a party up in the front.
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Virgile said:
Do you think it will ever come?
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Thankfully Ant has already honoured us with a prediction timeframe for various other lesser items:

LittleAnt said:
SQ42 beta end of 2021.
Vulkan late this year.
Second system late 2021, early 2022.
iCache a huge mess at start, good tech at the end of 2021.
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Which we can compare with CIG's initial predictions:

SQ42 beta: Roadmapped for Q2 2020. Ant's Prediction: 1.5 years late.
SQ42: Roadmapped for 2014 release (and 2015, and 2016, and 2017...). Ant's Prediction: 7 years+ late.
Second system: Roadmapped for 2017. Ant's Prediction: 4 years+ late
iCache: A pre-requisite for server meshing, should have been in Q4 2018, last predicted for mid 2020. Ant's prediction: Approx 2.5 years late

Anyone wanna bet on Ant's cautious predictions being overly optimistic ;)
 
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VR Golgot

VR Golgot
LittleAnt said:
For sure, like the vulkan api, full persistance, owned flat, owned hangar and the Hull serie (for what I personaly wait).
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In what way are they alike? That's like saying: 'For sure it will come, just like moveable trollies and anti-aliasing.'

Adding vulkan, having items that persist between servers etc. These things... they are done by many games. They could come, and server meshing could very much not come. There's no 'for sure' about it.

(PS if the Hull C makes it this year it will only be 4 years+ late ;))
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
I had not realized Turbulent is also in charge of Server Meshing? Thought they were now also responsible for new star system creation, but Turbulent in server meshing is a completely new story to me. Or am I missing something?

robertsspaceindustries.com

Star Citizen Monthly Report: March 2021 - Roberts Space Industries | Follow the development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42

Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.
robertsspaceindustries.com

Turbulent​


Turbulent Game Services continued working on server meshing, onboarding more team members along the way. They also delivered the first demo of a fleet management system currently deployed on internal development environments. The configuration service, responsible for distributing client configurations to game clients, was also finalized.

The team supported the upcoming Alpha 3.13 release, specifically adding new features to the reputation service, such as the ability to notify players when their reputation changes as well as view, lock, and unlock reputation and view reputation history. Test passes were also performed on services to validate them for the upcoming release.

This month, the Live Tools Team continued work on the crash handling pipeline, with fixes to Sentry and Jira linking, and created a monitor to watch the ‘elasticsearch’ stream for errors and them into Sentry. They also created software in support of tools developed by the Montreal-based Location Team and created code to allow the Hex gateway to talk to the diffusion game services.
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Vetinari

V
They probably mean they trying to get Turblulent servers to connect to CIG servers to avoid the fiasco last time where nobody told the 3rd party what they were supposed to be doing or on what scale /ratio or whatever it was and it didnt work at all and was just a waste of time and money. :)
 

Cotic

Cotic
Viajero said:
I had not realized Turbulent is also in charge of Server Meshing? Thought they were responsible for new star system creation, but Turbulent in server meshing is a completely new story to me. Or am I missing something?

robertsspaceindustries.com

Star Citizen Monthly Report: March 2021 - Roberts Space Industries | Follow the development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42

Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.
robertsspaceindustries.com
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I know CIG UK have a 25% stake of Turbulent, it's interesting to see them getting more and more work from CIG.
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
Cotic said:
I know CIG UK have a 25% stake of Turbulent, it's interesting to see them getting more and more work from CIG.
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Especially something as critical as server messhing has been sold.

Do not get me wrong I think the Turbulent guys are probably among the few teams that have a better delivery track record in the CIG sphere, so I would not say it is bad news per se. Just funny to realize that CIG did not publicize that as loudly as the new star system creation 😋 Probably due to the fact that would send the signal that CIG can not cope with their own challenges.
 
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Cotic

Cotic
Viajero said:
Especially something as critical as server messhing has been sold.

Do not get me wrong I think the Turbulent guys are probably among the few teams that have a better delivery track record in the CIG sphere, so I would not say it is bad new sper se. Just funny to realize that CIG did not publicize that as loudly as the new star system creation 😋 Probably due to the fact that would send the signal that CIG can not cope with their own challenges.
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Yes it is definitely odd.

I can't help but think it is financially related. Chris gets a salary for his position at CIG. He's also a board member of CIG UK and Turbulent, both of whom are paid by funds from CIG. Double/Triple dipping galore on top of numerous shell companies. All looks a bit suss to me.

I'm sure there's a perfectly innocent reason though :unsure:
 

WhiteHaulerMan

WhiteHaulerMan
Ronzer said:
Not to go completely off topic, but some folks complain about travel times in ED. Well, I recall being in ARMA 2 (yeah long long ago) and flying to a battlefield, in a chopper, with a well tuned squad. That flight seemed like it was 10 minutes long, but what a blast. Let alone having a good commander, ordering us troops in battle. Talk about immersion! Can only imagine what EDO would be like with that mentality. To keep it on topic, if SC had that stuff happening, that'd be sweet too. They should really start thinking of finishing the game.
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I don't think you're going off topic at all with that line of thinking, however what drives the things you're talking about is the community itself: the developers have to provide us with the sandbox to generate the (I'm sure someones going to start thrashing back and forth foaming at the mouth at this) emergent content.

ArmA works because the community has slowly been built up to this being part of the game since the Operation Flashpoint hey days and for the most part because you can spot a bad crowd from a good crowd a mile away and obviously keep away from it.

However with space games, I seem to find personally it tends to err towards the worst aspects of 'milsim'-ness when they try to do these sort of combined-arms type games, as has been exhibited in numerous SC videos and that cringe-inducing Odyssey preview of a mission that the FDEV team put out a while back.

Video included for humour purposes to highlight the worst of milsim.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmHTllqVE00
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Viajero said:
I had not realized Turbulent is also in charge of Server Meshing? Thought they were now also responsible for new star system creation, but Turbulent in server meshing is a completely new story to me. Or am I missing something?

robertsspaceindustries.com

Star Citizen Monthly Report: March 2021 - Roberts Space Industries | Follow the development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42

Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.
robertsspaceindustries.com
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More and more you have to ask, what are the 400-600 people directly employed by CIG actually working on then?
 
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