Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[Darkfyre99]

All you people who hate Star Citizen, why do you live in this thread? Where are the fans?

I guess I should be glad y'all didn't make your home in my Space Engineers thread, LOL

Personally, I don’t hate Star Citizen. The original Kickstarter, which I supported, is very much a game I want to play. Sadly, it was revealed during the Crytek Lawsuit Discovery process that the game I backed was pretty much a lie. When I learned about the Roberts Clan’s dozens of shell companies, I immediately started my refund. In 2012, I backed a nearly finished game that was to be released in 2014, not a perpetual Hollywood Accounting Scheme

I follow this thread because Star Citizen’s current incarnation is also a game I’d like to play. But it’s a game I’m not willing to buy until it’s a) released and b) on sale. Much like No Man’s Sky, from what I’ve seen on live streams, they’ve made some gameplay choices I don’t think I’d enjoy... but I’d never know until I actually play it.

I’d love to try the “free” fly event... only my current rig can’t handle CIG’s level of “fidelity. Not only is there no more room on my SSD, but my seven year old machine, which can handle both VR and modern AAA games at high or ultra graphics settings, would barely get double digit frame rates. I am in the process of assembling a new rig, but it won’t be ready for some time. I’m still hoping, probably in vain, that graphics card prices will drop.

The other reason I follow this thread is that I’m a fan of the alternate reality game that is Star Citizen Development. I’m a fan of “behind the scenes” peeks at the creative process as it is. I’m actually disappointed when there isn’t any film maker commentary track s in DVDs, and delving into the Byzantine labyrinth that is Star Citizen’s development is utterly fascinating. It’s led to me learning things I’d probably never learn on my own... some of which has proved useful in other areas of my life. Like dissecting company financial statements.

Though I must admit I also have fun kibbitzing the current incarnation of this game’s development. My lunch periods are long, and I often need a distraction.

 

[Vetinari]

The semantics confuse me too sometimes

Its partly coz they are used by CIG to stiff backers. T&Cs say until a game is released no refunds are possible and its early access Alpha. Then fanatics say its a game to justify their love of it. Other people got sick of fanatics switching from Its Alpha to Its a Game depending on which point they were arguing, usually in bad faith. Some people feel ripped off or conned and after so many years of officially being called FUDsters for asking questions some people want a little revenge....and CR isn't there to take the heat so innocents get it in the neck. Not justifying it but can understand it.

Not many people want the game Star Citizen to fail, but at the same time they dont want CIG to succeed because of all the lies and the way they treat people. Its hard to separate the two sometimes and language crosses over the two all the time. I said a while back that SC could have been / could be a great game, but not with CIG at the helm....and CR is CIG so now theres three crossovers. and people get defensive on all sides / viewpoints.

Personally I always thought of you as a sceptic, a fairly balanced view of what you want it to be and how it actually is in reality and maybe even whats actually possible. And a few weeks ago when you couldn't get off your floor in the building due to elevators still just an annoyed sceptic. You know where most of the problems lie, management and scope creep.

If the game fails nobody wins, it means a lot of people get hurt, some very badly. Nobody in their right mind should want that. But some people dont want a perceived or real conman and his cronies to succeed as it lets them get away with it.....then there's Derek Smart he's on a separate horseshoe altogether.

Oh.... one other thing, that chart is a perfect example of a political horseshoe theory.

Eddie Izzard does a similar one with a circle about fashion. Theres cutting edge Hipster but just one small move and its looking like an idiot.

On the other side of that without this funding model the game would never have got off the drawing board. i'm conflicted about the way its funded, i just wish CR would step down or for someone to force him out.

Its the 'In the name of the King' problem. The King might be the best most generous person with everyone's welfare in mind, but without the proper checks and balances it allows pure evil to succeed around him and use the name and power to inflict misery on those below. Even if CR is just a well meaning misguided dreamer can the same be said of the people he has around him, or are they just in it to cream off as much as they can and feed his ego to keep it going? In a sense are they using him as much as they are using his image and dreams to milk the cash cow? Just opinion of course. If he had the right people around him they'd keep him in check or maybe replace him, if he doesn't they will just take what they can while they can and never actually make him face up to what he has promised and dont care if it crashes and burns as long as they had their cut.

 

[Mole HD]

I just wanted to see his cows flying. Do they?

These ones do...or at least I suspect they do when I'm not looking. I'm too terrified to go over and ask them

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I just wanted to see his cows flying. Do they?

They are demonic cows. According to Dungeons and Dragons monster manual they don't have wings and cannot fly.

 

[Intrepid3D]

Moo

 

[Mole HD]

....Eddie Izzard does a similar one with a circle about fashion. Theres cutting edge Hipster but just one small move and its looking like an idiot....

I'm young enough to remember fashion...but too old to give a damn

My wife once summed it up quite nicely...as she always does..."Did you dress like that just to irritate me? You look like you covered yourself in glue and jumped through the front window at Oxfam."

 

[hairychris]

Without sounding like a pompous , as an Evocati i do get to talk to the developers directly, i also get to see the development work that goes into it.

Quite aside from that this project is huge, about 800 staff at this point and they are all busy busy busy with an extremely complex and demanding project.

No one here is making this argument, this is no scam, i think the bulk of the money does go into the game and CR is constantly adding to the costs by growing the staff numbers, the fact that he is actively doing that sugests at least some genuine intent.

But you have to admit that managerial incompetence and lying to customers, while not being the dictionary definition of a scam, is functionally equivalent - customers don't get what they paid for and CR, instead of riding off into the sunset, spends the cash on an impossible vanity project.

 

[Intrepid3D]

But you have to admit that managerial incompetence and lying to customers, while not being the dictionary definition of a scam, is functionally equivalent - customers don't get what they paid for and CR, instead of riding off into the sunset, spends the cash on an impossible vanity project.

The problem with that is its difficult to separate what's forced by CR, a marketing team that behaves, well, like a marketing team. its been said that some of the devs are frustrated with the marketing people for over promising or giving the wrong impressions, or a myriad of whatever else.

Nothing is ever black or white, its infinite shades of grey.

 

[Red Martian]

Besides a few bucks on cosmetics...with which I have absolutely no objection to ...it would be hypocritical given I buy available content for practically every game that offers it...I'm about as likely to spend more cash in the future on Star Citizen as you are

I'm done, I have all the ships I'll ever need assuming Star Citizen ever makes it out of the door. Everything else I'll buy in game.

Same. I have a Hercules C2. Almost every space game I play my favorite role is to be the space trucker. Even here on ED, I've made multiple trips out to Hutton Orbital because it just feels right. I strongly wish that I had a CB in my Python. lol

 

[cigwatch]

Without sounding like a pompous , as an Evocati i do get to talk to the developers directly, i also get to see the development work that goes into it.

Quite aside from that this project is huge, about 800 staff at this point and they are all busy busy busy with an extremely complex and demanding project.

No one here is making this argument, this is no scam, i think the bulk of the money does go into the game and CR is constantly adding to the costs by growing the staff numbers, the fact that he is actively doing that sugests at least some genuine intent.

OK, what would be the word for the following:

1. Promise to deliver a beta of a game before a certain date. Keep accepting preorders from customers.
2. Knowing that you are not able to fulfil the promise, keep your mouth shut, keep accepting preorders.
3. More or less at the promised release date of the beta, say that you are sorry but it is too early to talk about the release date.
4. BTW, no returns on the preorders, the 30-day window has passed.

What is it?

 

[Intrepid3D]

Same. I have a Hercules C2. Almost every space game I play my favorite role is to be the space trucker. Even here on ED, I've made multiple trips out to Hutton Orbital because it just feels right. I strongly wish that I had a CB in my Python. lol

Hutton Orbital? is that something i should go visit?

I'm still learning about ED, i only recently learned about Black Holes in the game.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I dont know about you all but I cant help thinking about the French and what they eat tomorrow on their fancy terraces. I'm a bit jealous.

 

[Xink]

and they are all busy busy busy with an extremely complex and demanding project.

Here's a question for you. If you were being paid to write a book, had a steady paycheck only while the book was being written and no guaranteed income after its release since it has been already pre-ordered, would you want to finish the book?

The semantics of it are irrelevant. Their incentives on "finishing" their work is the question.

 

[cigwatch]

The problem with that is its difficult to separate what's forced by CR, a marketing team that behaves, well, like a marketing team. its been said that some of the devs are frustrated with the marketing people for over promising or giving the wrong impressions, or a myriad of whatever else.

There is no "marketing behaviour". Marketing teams market products according to the policy, goals, culture, etc. of the company. Those usually come from the top - they are not untamed forces of nature independent of the leadership. There are companies that are pretty good and honest with their marketing, there are some that are outright fraudulent.

Nothing is ever black or white, its infinite shades of grey.

I think accepting preorders for a game you know you will not deliver by the promised date while structuring the transaction in a way that makes cancelling a preorder impossible, is pretty black.

 

[Intrepid3D]

Guys, i think i'm done endlessly breaking down my opinions. this is why i ignore this relentless dissecting of everything i say, it never ends.

 

[Mole HD]

Here's a question for you. If you were being paid to write a book, had a steady paycheck only while the book was being written and no guaranteed income after its release since it has been already pre-ordered, would you want to finish the book?

The semantics of it are irrelevant. Their incentives on "finishing" their work is the question.

Ask George RR Martin

 

[Vetinari]

It was less than the cost of a decent cow...and I have a couple of those

Cant help but think that 30s before you got there the cows said to each other, 'Quick hes coming, you keep him occupied while we cover up the tunnel'

the fact that he is actively doing that sugests at least some genuine intent.

Or delusion. CR genuinely has some very strong signs of certain diagnosable conditions. I have a friend whos similar but they are diagnosed. But every so often I get barraged by phone calls about the latest 'dream' to make money and its just pure nonsense and never comes to pass.

Hutton Orbital? is that something i should go visit?

I'm still learning about ED, i only recently learned about Black Holes in the game.

Alpha Centauri I think it is in, its an outpost (max medium landing pads - source of the worst hoax in ED) well worth a trip, For the Mug! Will make sense when you get there. Just sign up for Inara first if thats your thing as you get a badge and you wont want to go twice if it doesnt record your visit.

Maia is the closest BH to the bubble, wait til you get an Engineer Invite from Felicity 'Facebook' Farseer and you can kill 2 birds with one stone. Sag A is the biggest and well worth a visit but thats a proper trip.

 

[Red Martian]

Hutton Orbital? is that something i should go visit?

I'm still learning about ED, i only recently learned about Black Holes in the game.

Yes, you should definitely visit Hutton Orbital. After you get your free Anaconda for making the trip, you can get your hands on a few mugs.

 

[Xink]

OK, what would be the word for the following:

1. Promise to deliver a beta of a game before a certain date. Keep accepting preorders from customers.
2. Knowing that you are not able to fulfil the promise, keep your mouth shut, keep accepting preorders.
3. More or less at the promised release date of the beta, say that you are sorry but it is too early to talk about the release date.
4. BTW, no returns on the preorders, the 30-day window has passed.

What is it?

More of a bait-and-switch. But getting caught up in the semantics of it's not a scam because there is a game is not the point.

Have they made enough to complete a game, whether less of what they advertise or not. Yup. Should they be given more money given their record over the past 10 years? Lol, no. Let actual investors pump money into them if they're so worthy.

 

[cigwatch]

Ask George RR Martin

Cannot wait for the TV show based on the in-progress plot of Squadron 42.

Oh wait.