Starlight tints background skybox - Lighting issues

No, quite the opposite. You do understand that I'm only talking about the post-processing filters, right?
No, no, wrong again. You don't know what they did to get this change, you only have the result.
You are ignorant of what they did. No matter how much you are an expert at film colour grading or artistic post processing, you don't know what THEY did. only what the result is. And what you THINK you would have done to get it.

You made that clam out of ignorance. You cannot know what FD did. Not that you do not know how to do graphical postpocessing.
 
No, no, wrong again. You don't know what they did to get this change, you only have the result.
You are ignorant of what they did. No matter how much you are an expert at film colour grading or artistic post processing, you don't know what THEY did. only what the result is. And what you THINK you would have done to get it.

You made that clam out of ignorance. You cannot know what FD did. Not that you do not know how to do graphical postpocessing.

To be fair, I think his educated guess has a high degree of confidence (from my own educated guesswork).
 
Hey OP and like-minded CMDRs, what if the "range" of the tinting was greatly reduced? There is indeed a range, though I suspect it's ridiculously far out from larger stars. Visit a neutron star and fly away from it, and it doesn't take too long for the galaxy to look like it did before the 3.3 update (mostly).

I'm personally okay if the skybox tints when I'm fuel scooping, as I think of myself as in the corona, and my cockpit's adaptive tinted windows are being saturated with colored light (which actual can tint what we see through that glass). However this effect should very quickly dissipate once we head away from the star.

I bring this up because this would just be a variable in the code for Frontier to tweak, which theoretically should be very easy to do.
 
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Hey OP and like-minded CMDRs, what if the "range" of the tinting was greatly reduced? There is indeed a range, though I suspect it's ridiculously far out from larger stars. Visit a neutron star and fly away from it, and it doesn't take too long for the galaxy to look pre-3.3 update.

I'm personally okay if the skybox tints when I'm fuel scooping, as I think of myself as in the corona, and my cockpit's adaptive tinted windows are being saturated with colored light (which actual can tint what we see through that glass). However this effect should very quickly dissipate once we head away from the star.

I like this approach - more of a fine tuning of the new system than a complete rollback. Maybe they could add a slider to allow players to tweak this distance to be as large or small as they wish (given certain boundaries).

Edit: they could "lore justify" this by saying that the amount of filtering your canopy does is configurable by individual pilots within health-wise-safe parameters.
 
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No, no, wrong again. You don't know what they did to get this change, you only have the result.
You are ignorant of what they did. No matter how much you are an expert at film colour grading or artistic post processing, you don't know what THEY did. only what the result is. And what you THINK you would have done to get it.

You made that clam out of ignorance. You cannot know what FD did. Not that you do not know how to do graphical postpocessing.

So, all of the work improving planet textures prior to the latest update was suddenly ditched in favour of some magical 2D filters which can render the textures on planets, but can’t leave the HUD untouched? Honestly, life is just too short. I have work to do.
 
To be fair, I think his educated guess has a high degree of confidence (from my own educated guesswork).

It relies on it being what they did. He cannot know that, only guess it. Yet it is presented as fact, not guess.

When I said "it might re-beige all the planets" it was not stated as a fact it would, that it could. A claim based on being ignorant of what they DID do, since there's no way to get from not knowing what they did to what changing it would do. We still don't know why the planets beiged.

They may not have any reason not to do it except they can't be bothered.

They may not do it because making it player controlled could be exploited or present a massive new UI for multidimensional colour grading in the game, or because it has OTHER changes BEFORE the postprocessing that the postprocessing is then making good on.

Like full screen motion blur. Without it, a game might be relying on the blur to allow cheaper (fewer) interpolations to get movement animation, so taking away motion blur will show up that the animation is a bit "Harryhausen", so more animation keypoints are needed, increasing the load of the graphical engine and degrading the "player experience".

The colour grading is likely a full screen artifact and, given the claims it does not impact performance at all, almost definitely a single end pass postprocessing.

We don't know what THIS VERSION OF THE ENGINE looks like without it.

If they have a reason for not changing, that would be one I could see as rational.

We'd be guessing without FD's input.

And those professing professional chops on the subject have more need to retain such qualifiers to their claims lest it fall foul of the argument by authority fallacy.
 
So, all of the work improving planet textures prior to the latest update was suddenly ditched .

Was it? do you know that? I don't.

But what increased contrast and saturation does is bring colours forward. Anyone who's used picassa to touch up their snaps knows that. So if the planets lose their colour and saturation, what do YOU, as a graphical professional, think would happen to the colours?

Because I would think that they'd lose a lot of their colour.

Since "beige" is the desaturated version of most of the colours of the planets right there now, I would call that re-beigification. Wouldn't you?

Or are you too busy to save face to think?
 
Well Ive given up on ED now. Bought X4. Now before the white nights start the bye, have stuff and all that. My point is there is an option in X4s graphics menu to turn off what ED have done for permeant. It can be done. No billion lines of code just a simple off switch. Everyone wins.
Anyhow my last word on it. Cya.
 
Then your demonstration does not do anything to prove your point. Since the LEDs are clearly coloured, and we're not looking at cardboard, it is not proving anything.

If the galactic background is the LED. Lets say a RED led. Full on. Max brightness. Never changes. Now put up a green LED and blue LED next to it and change those while keeping the RED (galaxy) the same colour intensity.

See how the colour seen changes when the lights are coincident with each other in the field of view?

HINT: put a flat red colour screen up on your monitor ("only red LEDs light up") and change the intensity of the green and blue. See the colour change.

But I know you were not going to get that.
I just tried with a bunch of LEDs on my breadboard. There is no perceivable difference in color between the LEDs regardless of light level. They don't influence each other, and i honestly don't see why they should - that's not how our eye works. They are focused on different parts of the retina. The only way this could work if they are directly on top of each other so that they blend together or there was enough particulate matter to diffract or reflect them in a way that alters the color. LEDs are actually a bad example for this, as they aren't point sources, while stars as the distances in question pretty much are. The effect you describe doesn't exist - not in the environments we're talking about. For there to be any perceivable tint, the light source would have to cover over your entire field of view, or at least the area the other lgiht sources in question are focused on.

In before "that's not what i asked you to do", "that doesn't prove anything", "you don't know what you're talking about".
 
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I just tried with a bunch of LEDs on my breadboard.

Use your eyeballs on this, then:

https://forums-cdn.frontier.co.uk/images/smilies-frontier/redface.png

It consists of just red, green and blue LEDs. No need to breadboard them. Yet somehow the result is a new colour???

Here, look at this. Still 100% identically coloured LEDs:
https://forums-cdn.frontier.co.uk/images/smilies-frontier/biggrin.png

Oh, look. Green. Guess green CAN change colour when there's other colours nearby, then.
 
My point is there is an option in X4s graphics menu to turn off what ED have done for permeant.

No, X4 is one by egosoft. They didn't do anything to Elite. And frontier had no hand in X4. X4 gives you a colour grading. Because people said it looked odd and strange. And what they did was resolvable via this method and they did it.

Egosoft did not let you take something they did off, they gve you several things they did and you can choose out of that list. They did not have "This is the style we want" then change it, then give an option to go back. It was originally the cartoonish one and they gave a less vibrant colour grading for those who claimed the popping colours was cartoon like.

But even if we take it as meaningless hyperbole:

We don't know if FD CAN resolve it this way.
We don't know if FD did the same thing Egosoft did.
We don't know it will be liked if FD did something like this.

Remember, lots are STILL saying that the game sucks for graphics, spooging over ED or SC or whatever and comparing it to NMS style.

PS why don't you like being told goodbye when you leave? If you are going to think that anyone doing so is a meanie, maybe not tell anyone you're going. It didn't add a single thing to your case. Whether you leave for X4 or just made it up out of think air, X4 still has a colour grading option with a few options on it that Egosoft think people can have.
 
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Was it? do you know that? I don't.

But what increased contrast and saturation does is bring colours forward. Anyone who's used picassa to touch up their snaps knows that. So if the planets lose their colour and saturation, what do YOU, as a graphical professional, think would happen to the colours?

Because I would think that they'd lose a lot of their colour.

Since "beige" is the desaturated version of most of the colours of the planets right there now, I would call that re-beigification. Wouldn't you?

Or are you too busy to save face to think?

I never lost it, and I'm not so vain to care whenever I do - “The distant that separates me from myself suffices to cure me of the judgement of others.” as Artaud once wrote ;). The planets looked great to me prior to the latest update. Just for your own reference, this is the kind of thing that's going on with these shaders - fundamentally, it's not inordinately complicated (you'll find more on sites like Shadertoy etc). As I said, I'm only talking about the post-processing effects:

http://alaingalvan.tumblr.com/post/79864187609/glsl-color-correction-shaders
 
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I just tried with a bunch of LEDs on my breadboard. There is no perceivable difference in color between the LEDs regardless of light level. They don't influence each other, and i honestly don't see why they should - that's not how our eye works. They are focused on different parts of the retina. The only way this could work if they are directly on top of each other so that they blend together or there was enough particulate matter to diffract or reflect them in a way that alters the color. LEDs are actually a bad example for this, as they aren't point sources, while stars as the distances in question pretty much are. The effect you describe doesn't exist - not in the environments we're talking about. For there to be any perceivable tint, the light source would have to cover over your entire field of view, or at least the area the other lgiht sources in question are focused on.

In before "that's not what i asked you to do", "that doesn't prove anything", "you don't know what you're talking about".

I'm not sure which is more sad, that the thread has been derailed, or that you all fell for it...

Sorry Valorin, time for me tap out (this thread is going nowhere).
 
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Use your eyeballs on this, then:

https://forums-cdn.frontier.co.uk/images/smilies-frontier/redface.png

It consists of just red, green and blue LEDs. No need to breadboard them. Yet somehow the result is a new colour???

Here, look at this. Still 100% identically coloured LEDs:
https://forums-cdn.frontier.co.uk/images/smilies-frontier/biggrin.png

Oh, look. Green. Guess green CAN change colour when there's other colours nearby, then.
Yeah - if they blend together. Yet you're able to discern diffrent colors on your screen. Even here, if you get close enough.

I guess distance plays a role. Like the distance between the local star and the background.
 
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I never lost it, and I'm not so vain to care whenever I do

Then your failures must be because the pitiful ignorance and failures on your part are the result of your best effort. Sad.


"The planets looked great to me prior to the latest update. "

And you know that they are 100% identical now before post processing? No. Again you know only what you know and dunning and kruger make you think you know vastly more.
 
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Yeah - if they blend together.

And so you concede the argument against. You previously asserted that the colours CANNOT CHANGE and are immutable. Now you say "yeah, they do change, but only when the blend". So not immutable after all. Yet my guess is you will not let this sink in and ignore it instead. It disturbs your equanimity to do so.


Yet you're able to discern diffrent colors on your screen.

Yet they ARE different colours, made up by "immutable colours". A fact you do not deign to accept is reality.

And, no, I cannot. There are colours that CANNOT be represented on a screen. There are colours that depend on very VERY precise local lighting in the office if you want to get the CORRECT colour representation in the screen as will appear on the billboard under the daylight sun. This is why pantone has spot colours and why Adobe is the only one for professional work (compared to GIMP which is 100% replacement apart from the legal right to use spot colours).

Because the florescent bulb in the office is not natural light, and the monitor needs a careful calibration so that it gets as close as possible.

So I know what colours I see,but they aren't the colours that are there.

Heck the existence of colourblind and tetrachromal (usually women) people prove that colours don't exist in and of themselves.

They are not immutable things.

So when oyu have coloured light sources, you get a different colour than when lit by white light.

The old system unrealistically ignored the effect of the other light sources.

This one doesn't.

And you don't like the change.
 
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I'm not sure which is more sad, that the thread has been derailed, or that you all fell for it...

You. Because you're worrying that having caused problems and failed to make any form of case that stands up to logic and facts, you have to pretend that the past is other than it is and that it is *everyone else* at fault, you're the "only sane man in the room".

Oh and unless the thread was about your sadness, or the derailment of the thread (ourobouros though it be), or people falling for whatever "it" is, along with any of the other attempts to pass off ad homs in excuse of argument, you just added to the derailment.

Making it sadder that you thought you weren't.
 
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Then your failures must be because the pitiful ignorance and failures on your part are the result of your best effort. Sad.


"The planets looked great to me prior to the latest update. "

And you know that they are 100% identical now before post processing? No. Again you know only what you know and dunning and kruger make you think you know vastly more.

So, rather than refer to the link, educate yourself on the actual techniques being used and their fundamental limitations, you instead choose to leave yet another y, mumbling comment that contributes absolutely nothing the subject at hand. I'd be angry if it wasn't so hopelessly funny in a grim, gallows humour kind of way - oh, the humanity! [haha]
 
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