State of the Game

Lysette

Lysette
well, and there is our beloved economical system - which creates consumer sheep, controlled by ads and media - they are given the idea what to eat and what to drink and where and how long to work to be able to buy crap they don't really need, but the idea of having to have them is implanted into their brains by media, commercials and the like. Herd behavior is enforcing this even more. Most are consumer sheep, their lives are controlled from the outside and they do not even realize that.
 

PRORABBIT67

PRORABBIT67
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Boomtrooper

Boomtrooper
Lysette said:
it is not intelligence which is the problem, but individualism, which led to selfishness and lowered cooperative behavior. If we would be a drone-like entity serving a hive, we would have had a much better chance. it wouldn't be fun, but that is one of the most successful ways of life in regards to survival. if there are alien races out there, which would be spacefaring, I would rather expect them to be like the borg (without a queen though). because that is a concept which actually works out well enough in nature on earth.

it is quite interesting to see in a just slightly related context how China is doing by using a concept which is kind of drone-like - their totalitarian way and control of their people creates something similar to a hive - and that makes them rather successful in the end. We will have to see though, if they can maintain the control or if individualism will win.
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I think this is a function of success as a collective... during British Colonial days, or the Industrial Revolution, there was much more of a "good of the country" approach... then as a collective becomes successful and resources are bountiful, we tend towards individualism rather than collectivism and IMHO we are seeing that individualism play out catastrophically in the west now
 

Boomtrooper

Boomtrooper
Lysette said:
well put - this is because we have a different layer on top of the biological one, which enables us to evolve at a different speed as a species, by communication and sharing information - and that is not in balance with the rather slow biological evolution. Then there is our social behavior, which lead to us supporting that what would be in nature unworthy - that is human to do that, but it is counterproductive to biological evolution. individualism like we have it, is kind of a new thing in nature and in it's test phase so to speak. So far it doesn't turn out that well, even it has it's benefits as well, because it leads to a few people "thinking out of the box" and there is a stronger tendency to do things differently to how it was done for ages. This leads to more speedy inventions - which can be beneficial but as well be disastrous. It is a new way of enhancing biological evolution and it might or might not turn out successful in the end - so far for humankind it had it's benefits for some time, but now it looks like being of more harm than good.
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This is Stuart & Cohen's premise of intelligence (the cognitive ability of the individual) vs extelligence (the cultural capital and knowledge of the society) which they laid out in Figments of Reality, which is a good read on the subject
 

Dooguk

D
Boomtrooper said:
I think this is a function of success as a collective... during British Colonial days, or the Industrial Revolution, there was much more of a "good of the country" approach... then as a collective becomes successful and resources are bountiful, we tend towards individualism rather than collectivism and IMHO we are seeing that individualism play out catastrophically in the west now
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For me, it started to change in the 1970's.
 

Boomtrooper

Boomtrooper
Dooguk said:
One of the things (and there aren't many) I am proud of in my life is the fact I didn't do drugs.
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not you personally, but I can't help but feel like the progressive libertarian 60's/70's had an accelerating effect on individualism in those countries that entered into the swinging sixties with gusto... and whilst a lot of good came from that (in terms of destigmatising some rather crazy long held prejudices), the flip side is that collectivism suffered to an extent
 

nemolomen

nemolomen
Boomtrooper said:
I think this is a function of success as a collective... during British Colonial days, or the Industrial Revolution, there was much more of a "good of the country" approach... then as a collective becomes successful and resources are bountiful, we tend towards individualism rather than collectivism and IMHO we are seeing that individualism play out catastrophically in the west now
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Eh, seems to me more like standard control systems theory with a little "extra" over-correction thrown in for good measure. In time it will come around full circle.

IE: Just as human life can be neatly summed up as a series of implemented, or missed, risk mitigation strategies, so the cycle will go back the other way and the bill will come due.

Collectivism and individualism are not necessarily mutually exclusive or even incompatible. I routinely set aside my own desires/needs/throughts for the good of the large "extended family" in which I find myself. And so do others in the group. And sometimes I get lots of practice holding my tongue.
 
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