Stop the Grinding (Moan)....

[bAdbUd]

[Caveat] from a 1984'er:

I'm an original Kickstarter Beta Backer with a lifetime access pass so I have access to the 2.1 beta. I have, however chosen (thus far) not to play 2.1, even though I've downloaded it and it's just a click away. But here is my $0.02's worth from afar. [/Caveat]

Reading the 2.1 Beta Discussions and watching YouTube videos my overall opinion is that this is the best update yet. And as such is encouraging me to pop in for a look see for myself.

Yes there are disagreements regarding why X has been implemented instead of Y and why Z has been completly ignored. All of which is providing valuable feedback. "Grinding" though is a constant staple of the main forums, and so is it here as we now have extra "Grinding" with the Engineers.

So what? This game's foundations have always been about "Grinding" from the very beginning. We didn't call it "Grinding" back in my day (shut up you old fart) we called it playing games. Regardless of that though, Elite Dangerous from the very off has been about "Grinding" and as such I don't really understand why "Grinding" is a constant in the forums.

Is there a precedent? Has there been a user base that has consistently complained about a fundamental part of a game that it eventually got changed? I'd suspect not, but prove me wrong. So why continue with such threads?

Yes providing feedback is essential and there have been some excellent posts regarding mechanics that have resulted in changes, and a little raging from an FD person. . But "Grinding" comments have yet to have made significant changes.

Yes in beta2 they have doubled the capacity for micro resources and data, but it was stated in Beta1 thread that they wanted to see how quickly people amassed such things. Not that they were doing that to prevent "Grinding".

Another example why back when they increased payouts for activities, I don't belive this was to prevent "Grinding" but to facilitate game progression. How can this game not be about "Grinding" we live in a vast galaxy and even inhabited space is too huge for a single person to traverse it all within a year or so.

So to me using the term "Grinding" is a misnomer and such complaints don't add to the discussion.

TL : DR The word "Grinding" get's thrown around way to often in my opinion.

Let the flame war begin, or not. [cool]

 

[Chris Simon]

Amen, commander. +1

The word grind is up there in my books along with "nerf" and "griefing" - the words that should be added to a swear filter.

I always wonder how faulty the human mind is, that it loves repetitive actions to achieve goals yet finds them boring at the same time. People who can't control this, end up whining on the forums. People who can, simply go and find another way to do things. And some people just don't mind at all.

 

[Karl Marx]

Grinding is fine so long as you're grinding towards something worthwhile. That's all there is to it. I don't see anything worthwhile to grind towards other than maybe 10,000 merits for some easy cash.

 

[JuicerPrime]

Grinding on its own isn't neccessarily a bad thing if you enjoy it, or there's a good payout at the end. Some people get frustrated with the repetition of credit-earning activities in the case of the former, some with the objective "meh-ness" of so many of ED's expensive ships in the case of the latter. For me it's a bit of both, but probably skewed more to the ship side. No flame war, just different strokes and all that stuff.

 

[Con]

Right here with you, played Elite back on the BBC in way too many years ago. This new iteration is a great game and takes me back.

OK I do get it, lots of grinding. but what may be grinding to one is fun to another. I think we need a balance. I am trying to get my Empire rank up, but i am torn. Accept missions for 30K credits or an hour of trading for 6-10 Million. Surely shipping Imperial Slaves around is good for the Empire? would be nice if once Allied to a Faction / Power, just doing a 'Good Job' to help improve the economy or collecting bounties on behalf of you chosen faction should count towards something.

Just my 0.02c worth.

 

[Chris Simon]

Grinding is fine so long as you're grinding towards something worthwhile. That's all there is to it. I don't see anything worthwhile to grind towards other than maybe 10,000 merits for some easy cash.

But that's just it. There purposefully isn't any such goal in Elite. Yet people still choose to grind (and consequently whine)

 

[Joe Akeem]

Yup is all I can say to the OP +1 rep
Progression and sense of achievement is how I see it. How can that be wrong. (cue ppl wanting to min-max and have limited time-arguements).

I have a small window of me-time (ED) and the so-called-grind is on par with watching your rank/rep meter fill up, and I have zero probs with that.

TLDR; Take it easy, you're competing with yourself. Noone else.

 

[Vandaahl]

Some might even find having sex a grind (was that english?). Anyway, the fact that some do, doesn't mean it is. They're just doing something wrong.

 

[Con]

Some might even find having sex a grind (was that english?). Anyway, the fact that some do, doesn't mean it is. They're just doing something wrong.

I think good sex is Good Grind, Bad sex is like like getting interdicted by an eagle with a 400Cr Bounty

 

[Chris Simon]

Well, that escalated quickly

 

[JuicerPrime]

Yup is all I can say to the OP +1 rep
Progression and sense of achievement is how I see it. How can that be wrong. (cue ppl wanting to min-max and have limited time-arguements).

I have a small window of me-time (ED) and the so-called-grind is on par with watching your rank/rep meter fill up, and I have zero probs with that.

TLDR; Take it easy, you're competing with yourself. Noone else.

More competing with the credits in my account. With 2.1 coming up I've upgraded from my trusty Cobra IV to an Asp Explorer (because I'm 90% sure the IV won't be able to compete in its current state against the new AI - it's too slow and heavy as it is with its weak defenses, never mind versus better opponents) and I'm already tired of the land - travel - drop in - hope for good spawn from RNG - pew pew - leave - travel - land cycle in getting it properly outfitted. Once it's A-rated and purring happily I, too, will be much happier - but if I don't grind those upgrades and take a more relaxed approach I could still be at it far after 2.1 drops. I've learned to distrust uncertain earning potential since beta, when one of my previous saves racked up a 90-jump round trip trying to find a good trade route the hard way and ended up finding one back near the start point.

Some might even find having sex a grind (was that english?). Anyway, the fact that some do, doesn't mean it is. They're just doing something wrong.

It was English, but the grammar was a bit skewed. And they're not doing it wrong, they're just doing it different. Not everyone who plays ED has lots of time or patience, though I know from personal experience that patience is much easier to come by once you're in a ship you like that has good trade or quick-kill earning potential for the future. Makes me regret my deleted save with its A-fit FdL sometimes, but hey ho. I took the Cobra IV challenge willingly and I regret none of it

 

[Vandaahl]

And they're not doing it wrong, they're just doing it different.

Sry, you were right, I was... different

 

[JonnyC0mbat]

I swear I'm stuck in Groundhog Day.

Loads of posts about "grinding", which cues further posts about how it's not grinding.

This forum is frustratingly cyclical.

Sorry to be an      but it feels like there are only ever 3 types of conversation on here:
1. This game rocks
2. This game sucks
3. Moaning and then moaning about moaning

See! I've just achieved type 3 with this post.

This isn't aimed at anyone specific, I'm just starting to find games forums utterly predictable and thoroughly boring.

Damn, I think I'm turning into a grumpy old man.

 

[bAdbUd]

Amen, commander. +1

The word grind is up there in my books along with "nerf" and "griefing" - the words that should be added to a swear filter.

I always wonder how faulty the human mind is, that it loves repetitive actions to achieve goals yet finds them boring at the same time. People who can't control this, end up whining on the forums. People who can, simply go and find another way to do things. And some people just don't mind at all.

Repetition can be enjoyable as long as that repetitive thing achieves something in the end. To me that repetition achieves progress throughout the bubble. I'm currently going to every station that has a Rare Good in economy mode and only jumping to systems that are unexplored by me along the way. 124 systems spanning all around the bubble equating to 5000LY's as the crow flies. I'm not doing this for the money, just because I decide to that, and it's fun to me.

Grinding is fine so long as you're grinding towards something worthwhile. That's all there is to it. I don't see anything worthwhile to grind towards other than maybe 10,000 merits for some easy cash.

It depends on what your current goal is. The sense of achievement when you've completed your goal is what makes it worth it. As above.

Grinding on its own isn't necessarily a bad thing if you enjoy it, or there's a good payout at the end. Some people get frustrated with the repetition of credit-earning activities in the case of the former, some with the objective "meh-ness" of so many of ED's expensive ships in the case of the latter. For me it's a bit of both, but probably skewed more to the ship side. No flame war, just different strokes and all that stuff.

Money isn't something that drives me or getting a big ship. I've spent nearly 1000's hours playing this game I only got a Python 2 months ago. Although if that's your goal then that's fine too. But you'll have to grind, rather than just play the game, but again that grind has a goal so enjoy it and the final achievement.

Right here with you, played Elite back on the BBC in way too many years ago. This new iteration is a great game and takes me back.

OK I do get it, lots of grinding. but what may be grinding to one is fun to another. I think we need a balance. I am trying to get my Empire rank up, but i am torn. Accept missions for 30K credits or an hour of trading for 6-10 Million. Surely shipping Imperial Slaves around is good for the Empire? would be nice if once Allied to a Faction / Power, just doing a 'Good Job' to help improve the economy or collecting bounties on behalf of you chosen faction should count towards something.

Just my 0.02c worth.

Yes that can be a situation where you think, I've got to accept little money for maybe an hour of my gameplay time. Plus how many of these piddly missions do I have to keep accepting? I have found that when you begin, that is the case but during the course or upping your rank you become out of favour with other factions which then can start to make things intresting. Seeing several hostile ships whilst in Supercruise for instance, when 2.1 hits live they'll be something you'll become worried about, where as now not so much, but you still get a bounty.

 

[Arjin]

Personally I am extremely sick of the word grind,, every game has aspects of repeating actions. It's up to you the player how you choose to perceive and deal with it.

To constantly cry about grind this grind that, makes me wonder how those folks ever get along in the real world..

 

[Steve50]

Totally agree TC.

I'm tired of people throwing 'its just a grind' at you all the time, no.. it's not. grinding is a mindset, get out of that and start to play the game for fun an enjoyment.

as a wise person on here once said:- 'If you insist on playing the game in an un-fun way don't be surprised when you look around and realize you're not having any fun.'

 

[bAdbUd]

More competing with the credits in my account. With 2.1 coming up I've upgraded from my trusty Cobra IV to an Asp Explorer (because I'm 90% sure the IV won't be able to compete in its current state against the new AI - it's too slow and heavy as it is with its weak defenses, never mind versus better opponents) and I'm already tired of the land - travel - drop in - hope for good spawn from RNG - pew pew - leave - travel - land cycle in getting it properly outfitted. Once it's A-rated and purring happily I, too, will be much happier - but if I don't grind those upgrades and take a more relaxed approach I could still be at it far after 2.1 drops. I've learned to distrust uncertain earning potential since beta, when one of my previous saves racked up a 90-jump round trip trying to find a good trade route the hard way and ended up finding one back near the start point.

All I can say to that is lols.

It was English, but the grammar was a bit skewed.

Example/s please, I don't mind gammar natzies.

And they're not doing it wrong, they're just doing it different. Not everyone who plays ED has lots of time or patience, though I know from personal experience that patience is much easier to come by once you're in a ship you like that has good trade or quick-kill earning potential for the future. Makes me regret my deleted save with it's A-fit FdL sometimes, but hey ho. I took the Cobra IV challenge willingly and I regret none of it

If you don't have a lot of time and patience then Elite Dangerous is going to bore you to death.

I swear I'm stuck in Groundhog Day.

Loads of posts about "grinding", which cues further posts about how it's not grinding.

This forum is frustratingly cyclical.

Sorry to be an but it feels like there are only ever 3 types of conversation on here:
1. This game rocks
2. This game sucks
3. Moaning and then moaning about moaning

See! I've just achieved type 3 with this post.

This isn't aimed at anyone specific, I'm just starting to find games forums utterly predictable and thoroughly boring.

Damn, I think I'm turning into a grumpy old man.

Yes I agree, I don't expect this post to make a jot of difference.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Personally I am extremely sick of the word grind,, every game has aspects of repeating actions. It's up to you the player how you choose to perceive and deal with it.

To constantly cry about grind this grind that, makes me wonder how those folks ever get along in the real world..

Like having a Job that you hate/dislike. If you hate/dislike it, leave an get a different job you enjoy.

Totally agree TC.

I'm tired of people throwing 'its just a grind' at you all the time, no.. it's not. grinding is a mindset, get out of that and start to play the game for fun an enjoyment.

as a wise person on here once said:- 'If you insist on playing the game in an un-fun way don't be surprised when you look around and realize you're not having any fun.'

That is an excellent quote worthy of a signature, but I'll need the source I'm not a plagiarist.

Acornsoft Avatar +1

 

[bigity]

My issue with grinding is that I need to grind too many things.

1: Power Play - gotta maintain rank 5 (well, don't HAVE to, but I like to support my power - and 50 mil credits isn't terrible to get (minus fast tracking costs))
2: Imp/Fed Rank - if you don't cheese it, it's a massive pain
3: Money making - I can only do so many Sothis/Robigo runs, and everything else pales in comparison
4: BGS stuff - more grinding, and often makes little to no money
5: Doing other interesting stuff when you aren't grinding - exploration, CGs, PvP/wing things, etc

Some of these grinds eventually go away, but it's alot all put together. We are fixing to add engineers to the mix and reduce the effectiveness of certain activities that bypass some of the grind (fed rank comes to mind)

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Meh, it's just something that some gamers do.
Devs release new stuff, player thinks "shiny" and "must have now"...
Devs introduce a progression, players think "too much grinding" and the complaints begin...

The way I see Engineers is that it's something that's incorporated into the game and not just a stand alone DLC which needs to be completed as soon as possible. More of an enhancement to the overall game.
However, it appears there's quite a few that will only grind the Engineers for the best stuff but I don't think that's what it's intended for.
I see it more about fine tuning your ship to suit a more specialized role than being related to creating some kind of God ship.

I can see myself having fun with it and incorporating it with the way I currently play the game but I'll be mixing up what I do from time to time because that's just how I avoid any "grind".
I have over 2,000 hours logged so not being in a hurry definitely works for some of us.

 

[bAdbUd]

My issue with grinding is that I need to grind too many things.

1: Power Play - gotta maintain rank 5 (well, don't HAVE to, but I like to support my power - and 50 mil credits isn't terrible to get (minus fast tracking costs))
2: Imp/Fed Rank - if you don't cheese it, it's a massive pain
3: Money making - I can only do so many Sothis/Robigo runs, and everything else pales in comparison
4: BGS stuff - more grinding, and often makes little to no money
5: Doing other interesting stuff when you aren't grinding - exploration, CGs, PvP/wing things, etc

Some of these grinds eventually go away, but it's a lot all put together. We are fixing to add engineers to the mix and reduce the effectiveness of certain activities that bypass some of the grind (fed rank comes to mind)

1: Never done that as I'm a nomad so it doesn't appeal
2: I do one rank at a time, then move on
3: I don't do anything for maximum profit I just bob about and make profits and losses, hey ho, no matter.
4: Again I'm a nomad so this doesn't appeal
5: Playing the game and bobbing about 2 to 5 hours a day

As above my current goal is going to all 124 Rare stations, some require getting permits, which helps towards my next goal, getting all permits.