Stop the Grinding (Moan)....

[Szymanski]

Grinding is fine so long as you're grinding towards something worthwhile. That's all there is to it. I don't see anything worthwhile to grind towards other than maybe 10,000 merits for some easy cash.

Well said. If it amounts to something you're proud of in the long run, then "grinding" is absolutely acceptable in my opinion. This game doesn't just hand you things, you gotta to work for it.

 

[bAdbUd]

Meh, it's just something that some gamers do.
Devs release new stuff, player thinks "shiny" and "must have now"...
Devs introduce a progression, players think "too much grinding" and the complaints begin...

The way I see Engineers is that it's something that's incorporated into the game and not just a stand alone DLC which needs to be completed as soon as possible. More of an enhancement to the overall game.
However, it appears there's quite a few that will only grind the Engineers for the best stuff but I don't think that's what it's intended for.
I see it more about fine tuning your ship to suit a more specialized role than being related to creating some kind of God ship.

I can see myself having fun with it and incorporating it with the way I currently play the game but I'll be mixing up what I do from time to time because that's just how I avoid any "grind".
I have over 2,000 hours logged so not being in a hurry definitely works for some of us.

I completly agree, it's something else in the game you can play with, it's not something to max/min at, although the max/min people will do their best to achieve that. There's nothing wrong with max/min people as I'm sure they love doing that. Kudos to their seemingly endless testing of the possible permutation calculations to end up with very detailed information, I enjoy reading their threads.

 

[jasonbarron]

I really like grinding for sex! Wait, what was this thread about???

 

[slothman320]

I think stopping the grind isn't what we actually want. The grind sucks and therefore you internalize it as the fact that the grind needs to go away. Instead what we want is the grind to be "fun". Look at COD, Battlefield, warframe and Fallout. Every one of them has grinding but each one does it in a way that their players find enjoyment. A medium needs to be found in elite or it will perish. And I don't want that

 

[bAdbUd]

I really like grinding for sex! Wait, what was this thread about???

Oh children please behave: Definition 1 is what applies here, obviously.

Words in the English language can often have two or more meanings, but the context defines said definition.

grinding
ˈɡrʌɪndɪŋ/
adjective
1. (of a difficult situation) oppressive and seemingly without end.
"grinding poverty"
2. (of a sound or movement) harsh and grating.
"the grinding roar of the lorries"
3. Children who giggle when this word is mentioned.
"must be about sex"

 

[Moonax IRL]

Jesus give it rest, 2.1 has not been fully released yet and the whining is reaching a crescendo. Ye are worse than a bunch of kids.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Grinding is fine so long as you're grinding towards something worthwhile. That's all there is to it. I don't see anything worthwhile to grind towards other than maybe 10,000 merits for some easy cash.

Exactly. Grinding is expected. In fact, it's a necessary evil in online games. There has to be a carrot at the end of the stick.

The problem is when you have to grind just to get the stick.

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Jesus give it rest, 2.1 has not been fully released yet and the whining is reaching a crescendo. Ye are worse than a bunch of kids.

It's in beta. This is what beta is for. This is how it is in beta.

 

[Moonax IRL]

We know what beta is, the mechanics are known. What we dont know is where all the materials will be found and and their availability, and I suspect that wont happen til full release and the place holders are gone thus it is pointless whining over an unknown.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

We know what beta is, the mechanics are known. What we dont know is where all the materials will be found and and their availability, and I suspect that wont happen til full release and the place holders are gone thus it is pointless whining over an unknown.

You're right. We don't know what we don't have. We know what we do have. We can only give feedback on what we do have. That is what is happening. It's seeing a direction and raising red flags. If things change next patch, feedback changes.

 

[Moonax IRL]

I think the devs should be given the benefit of the doubt, they have produced a very good addition to the game with numerous improvements. We should just give them a break and let things play out and put the whining aside until a full assessment can be made.

 

[bAdbUd]

Jesus give it rest, 2.1 has not been fully released yet and the whining is reaching a crescendo. Ye are worse than a bunch of kids.

I'm puzzled by your comment, are you against my thread, or for it? Or neither? I'm not particularly talking about 2.1, apart from that Engineers has reinvigorate the anti "Grinding" crew.

Exactly. Grinding is expected. In fact, it's a necessary evil in online games. There has to be a carrot at the end of the stick.

The problem is when you have to grind just to get the stick.

The carrot should be about having fun, that fun is achieved in many ways by different people. But if a game doesn't give you the carrot you'd like to eat,, then why bother?

The alternate TL : DR should read: Elite is all about "Grinding" and enjoying "Grinding" if you don't like "Grinding" maybe Elite can teach how to hate it more, or love it.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

I think the devs should be given the benefit of the doubt, they have produced a very good addition to the game with numerous improvements. We should just give them a break and let things play out and put the whining aside until a full assessment can be made.

That's counterproductive to a beta, which is entirely about feedback. They give us something, we give feedback on it. They give us another build, we give feedback on that build. That's how this works.

The fact that you call it "whining" is dismissive and condescending. If we don't speak up, stuff doesn't change. Use some logic.

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I'm puzzled by your comment, are you against my thread, or for it? Or neither? I'm not particularly talking about 2.1, apart from that Engineers has reinvigorate the anti "Grinding" crew.



The carrot should be about having fun, that fun is achieved in many ways by different people. But if a game doesn't give you the carrot you'd like to eat,, then why bother?

The alternate TL : DR should read: Elite is all about "Grinding" and enjoying "Grinding" if you don't like "Grinding" maybe Elite can teach how to hate it more, or love it.

I'm saying that grinding is a part of online games. Things will get repetitive any time there is progression. That doesn't mean you can't make it interesting and immersive though. It's even possible to make a grind not feel like a grind.

By grinding just to get the stick, I mean grinding missions to get reputation to unlock the ability to grind for other things which let you to finally grind for the thing you wanted in the first place. It's an artificial time gate is all. I hate reputation mechanics for the engineers for this reason. They make no sense.

 

[bAdbUd]

I think the devs should be given the benefit of the doubt, they have produced a very good addition to the game with numerous improvements. We should just give them a break and let things play out and put the whining aside until a full assessment can be made.

This isn't about giving Devs the benefit of the doubt, it's about the "Grinding" crew. They want and need feedback in beta, I'm saying that anyone that want's the grind to be lessened is talking to a deaf person.

That's counterproductive to a beta, which is entirely about feedback. They give us something, we give feedback on it. They give us another build, we give feedback on that build. That's how this works.

The fact that you call it "whining" is dismissive and condescending. If we don't speak up, stuff doesn't change. Use some logic.

Ditto, and as above.

 

[Moonax IRL]

The mechanic is working as intended by the devs, the availability of resources is the factor that seems to vex a certain amount of players. My point is we will not know that until the place holders are removed and it is released fully. Unless of course your problem is with the whole mechanic that they have put in place and you protestations are an effort for them to introduce a one of your liking

 

[frostypaw]

Exactly. Grinding is expected. In fact, it's a necessary evil in online games. There has to be a carrot at the end of the stick.

This is the problem - people bring their preconceptions from other games here. Expect their little set of handcrafted storyline that everyone gets and everyone gets to be the hero, expects to have to grind to the top ships to get to the endgame content and then expects the game to be changed to match what they thought they were getting.

The word is ridiculously overused on this forum. It's become near meaningless and useless as it gets ascribed to every non "win-button" or "fight" action, and even some of those.

So far Elite's not felt at all like I'm forced to do meaningless stuff just to gain some meaningless rank that locked away content purely for the reason of extending the game.

I have done things which have been boring, I've bemoaned the journey home - but they've been my choices and I've owned them, not blamed someone else or demanded the game be broken so everything is easy. Things that are far away should be far away, and not working out things to do while waiting for a contact is my own fault and would have been easy for me to fix. I did it, I learnt, I play the game better.

So I dunno, they need to change the marketing to make it more clear it's not a normal MMO and doesn't work that way - it'd do them a lot of good i think.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

The mechanic is working as intended by the devs, the availability of resources is the factor that seems to vex a certain amount of players. My point is we will not know that until the place holders are removed and it is released fully. Unless of course your problem is with the whole mechanic that they have put in place and you protestations are an effort for them to introduce a one of your liking

You're saying don't give feedback during a beta until it's too late. We can't evaluate what we don't have. We can only evaluate what we do have.

Nothing is "working as intended". If it was, it wouldn't be in the beta for us to play test and evaluate.

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This is the problem - people bring their preconceptions from other games here. Expect their little set of handcrafted storyline that everyone gets and everyone gets to be the hero, expects to have to grind to the top ships to get to the endgame content and then expects the game to be changed to match what they thought they were getting.

The word is ridiculously overused on this forum. It's become near meaningless and useless as it gets ascribed to every non "win-button" or "fight" action, and even some of those.

So far Elite's not felt at all like I'm forced to do meaningless stuff just to gain some meaningless rank that locked away content purely for the reason of extending the game.

I have done things which have been boring, I've bemoaned the journey home - but they've been my choices and I've owned them, not blamed someone else or demanded the game be broken so everything is easy. Things that are far away should be far away, and not working out things to do while waiting for a contact is my own fault and would have been easy for me to fix. I did it, I learnt, I play the game better.

So I dunno, they need to change the marketing to make it more clear it's not a normal MMO and doesn't work that way - it'd do them a lot of good i think.

It's every game in existence. Progression requires some form of grind. The rest of your post is just a giant straw man.

Progressing through what us available require grind. Sometimes, that isn't bad. They can go overboard, though.

 

[bAdbUd]

By grinding just to get the stick, I mean grinding missions to get reputation to unlock the ability to grind for other things which let you to finally "Grinding" grind for the thing you wanted in the first place. It's an artificial time gate is all. I hate reputation mechanics for the engineers for this reason. They make no sense.

Artificial time gate, is just another way of saying grinding. That's games for you..... And this is the grind I like. Sometimes it get's the better of me as I'm a completist when playing games. I know there is no way I can go everywhere in this game or experience everything in this game, even if I were to play 8 hours everyday for the next 30 years. Yet that unachievable goal doesn't stop me trying.

 

[frostypaw]

It's every game in existence. Progression requires some form of grind. The rest of your post is just a giant straw man.

Progressing through what us available require grind. Sometimes, that isn't bad. They can go overboard, though.

Is it now?

I assume you can easily give me a few examples of content that I can't reach without being forced to do meaningless stuff then? I've not found any so far so your input would help here.

*goes to grind Peggle*

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Artificial time gate, is just another way of saying grinding. That's games for you..... And this is the grind I like. Sometimes it get's the better of me as I'm a completist when playing games. I know there is no way I can go everywhere in this game or experience everything in this game, even if I were to play 8 hours everyday for the next 30 years. Yet that unachievable goal doesn't stop me trying.

Being a completist doesn't require arbitrary grind mechanics. It just means you like to complete what is there. A lot of other games have eliminated the arbitrary part and let you get right to the meat, which is still a grind, but it's the one you wanted in the first place

 

[Moonax IRL]

If your belief is and it is only your belief, that nothing is working as intended then I believe you will suffer much angst playing this game and it is probably not for you but such is life.