Stress increase for babies if Mom is removed from the habitat - Stress for animals in storage for too long

[The European]

Forgot to adress this;

• You said it was a rant about the world we live in. Exept this is not the world we live in, it's a VIDEO GAME! No videogame is a 100% accurate descrition of the real world and most if not all of them have gamemechanics that is "unrealistic" as that is vital for the game to work properly (as an example the Tradecentre in this game)
• While overbreeding is a problem irl when it comes to pets, Puppy Mills are mosty infamous for their misstreatment of the animals, and neither of your arguments about Puppy mills (mistreatment and overbreeding) is applyable to this game, wich is why I oppose your use of the frase "puppy mill" so much when talking about this game.
• Breeding programs will NOT! "destroy" the market in any way, as the demand is way way higher than the supply for almost every single animal in the game. On the contrary, we need MORE people breeding and selling animals in franchise to make the market healthier

- Me explaining how puppy mills work in real life was a rant about the world we live in. and AGAIN:

"

I wouldn't understand storage as anything corresponding to reality. If a zoo plans to sell an animal to another zoo there is no good reason why that animal would be removed from its habitat before transportation procedures or quarantine periods have to be initiated. Yet in the game we have to take that animal into storage, although we don't even know yet if there actually will be a sale.
And if a zoo wants to buy animals they can network with other zoos and make timely arrangements that guarantee that there isn't a lonely bison bull for a couple of years before anything resembling a herd takes shape. Yet in the game we can't do that. We are flying completely blind regarding the animal market. If what we want isn't there now we don't know if we can get it tomorrow, next week or next month, especially in franchise. For some species that's not a big problem, but for other species seeing a single female that is neither infertile nor due to age soon-to-be infertile is a small sensation in itself, so collecting enough of them to satisfy minimum herd sizes might take a while, a while that might well exceed the lifetime of the animals bought first.
An unrealistic storage where animals are kept in a magical stasis is pretty much the one thing that keeps the unrealistic limitations of the game from ruining everybody's fun.

but this is also true and I understand it.

I have an idea that would make this better (in my opinion) based on that post, and it would eliminate the need for storage, but that would require pretty fundamental changes to the game, so I don't think it would ever happen, so I just play around it and have it as a rule for myself to not have animals in storage for prolonged times and wait until I can buy enough animals all at once (even with bad genes) to fulfil minimum herd requirements.
"

I already agreed to this, why are you still bringing game mechanics up?? And why are you ignoring it every time I say, yeah if it wouldn't work in franchise then don't apply it to franchise, add it to challenge mode.


- "While overbreeding is a problem irl when it comes to pets, Puppy Mills are mosty infamous for their misstreatment of the animals" This is like saying the Eiffel tower is infamous because an architect named Eiffel designed it. NO.. they are called puppy mills because the problem they create is over-breeding, otherwise they would just blend into the "Animal Abuse" category, the reason they are standing apart from any animal abusers, is because not only they are mistreating the animals, but also cause a huge problems to the market, while animal abusers who lock their horses in a stable and leave them without food and water and care are just called animal abusers, because they are just that, garbage people.

Actually I did not invent the "Puppy mill zoo" expression for this game either, I took it from a youtube channel.. I am clearly not the only person who sees SOME!!!!! zoo set-ups that way.

- It will not destroy the market because the devs are controlling it, they create both supply and demand, if no one bred ever at all, the market would still work, and if suddenly everyone swarmed the market with 100 animals to trade per species, you would still have the same supply and demand, as you do now.

 

[Arrakai]

YOUR play-style... did you invent it? Are you the core and the only person doing it? Probably not.. my problem is not with you, its with the play-style, its not personal, don't take it personally! Not to mention from how you describe how you play, I don't necessarily agree with everything you do, but I would not call it unethical or greedy. Why are you taking criticism for something that doesn't apply to you?

Now who is twisting words? (a thing you just love to point out that I am doing). I mean THE PLAYSTYLE I PLAY, NOT ONLY ME (is that clear enough). And since you say the playstyle is unethical and greedy, that IS saying that the people that play it that way is doing an unethical, greedy thing, wich is what I have a problem with.

I mean you could have 2 perfect mates with 100% stats, put them down they breed, take the father away put it in storage leave the mom until it gives birth, then put it back in storage (where these 2 won't age), leave the babies in the habitat wait until they grow up, sell them, release them, then put the mom and dad back down again, and do the same thing again.

Eh, first of all, having two mates that both have 100% stats is not a guarantee that the babys will have that, that is why you compare mates, not just look at their stats.
Yes, some people might do it like this, but it is in no way an effective way of breeding, since it requires alot of micromanaging and take even longer than normal breeding.

Why would breeding programs be impossible without it? My animals breed perfectly well, I have great stat animals, and I am not using the trade centre. Its not impossible, just requires a little more work, attention and time.

Well good for you that that works for you. I didn't say that breeding is impossible without a tradecentre, but a Breeding program with more than a few breeding pairs would be next to impossible, especially if you start out with bad stat animals (wich is often the only ones that you can find in the market). Because without it, the animals risk getting old before you find a good mate for them. And you are even pointing out that you do not even use the tradecentre, yet you are suggesting that they change it, wich would not affect you at all, but would make the game worse for other people. That I think is unethical.

Inbreeding can be prevented by contraceptives. So.. no risk there. No its not that stressful for them to remove a 'pack friend' or mate... I worked with horses my whole life, most mares freak out (and the babies too) if you take their baby away, but taking another adult from the group they are okay with. Horses are of course domesticated so you may think this is not representative but then I recommend you watch wild animals herd behaviour, more often than not the mom leaves the herd to save the baby if its in danger, even if that means they might die, but if adults leave to form another herd or so.. that's fine.

Ok, so with horses that is fine, but that does not mean that it works the same for other animals. And as I have pointed out before, in this game there are only two stages; baby and adult. And as I also stated, not alot of animals stay close to their mother or get parental care up until they reach adulthood. Or are you saying that horses need their mother and stay with her until they are 3-4 years old? Because as far as I know, the foal gets removed from the mother before it turnes one and if you do not remove it, you risk the mother injuring it when it turns older.

1 Instant fighting is not the topic we are discussing here. Its not right it has been suggested 1000 times. 2 Inbreeding can be prevented by contraceptives. So.. no risk there.
3 No future offspring at all. Why? Remove the male have the baby grow up, remove the now adult baby, put the father back? Mom stayed with baby until it grew up, no risk of inbreeding, and instant fighting is wrong anyway.

1. The reason I mentioned insta fighting is because you insist that the babys have to be with their mother until they become adults (wich is not realistic at all) and the insta fighting is a gamemechanic that is making that harder. 2. Yes, I know what contraceptives are, but again, alot of micromanaging for a non issue. 3. Before you mentioned how unethical it is to put an animal back and forth into tradecentre for the porpose of breeding, and now you are suggesting that to stop fighting? or are you suggesting that we have 2-3 habitats for every single species to work around the fighting/mother baby thing? Again, another reason why your suggestion makes no sence. They would not improve the game in any way, or make it realistic. They would not even affect you, just make the game LESS fun for other people.

Yes and you could have just said I disagree and we wouldn't have wasted hours debating why you think 1 thing and I think something else... but I am an extremely patient person so I'm happy to explain why I think what I think several times.

Yes and I have also explained in a numerous ways and over and over again why your suggestions woudn't work, woudn't make the game more realistic and would only make it worse for other players...

Again. My problem is not with you, its with the game, allowing this play-style, which I disagree with, so I made a suggestion to make it more difficult to do that. The only "you" in this sentence is where I said my problem is NOT with you, and again I am not implying anything, I mean what I say but only that, not what you understand from it.
We are hitting " "The door was red" - The Poet is expressing his rage by depicting the door in the vibrant angry colour of red." levels. NO he meant the door was red, and when I explained what puppy mills are and how they ruin the pet "market" by over-breeding I explained it, because you kept insisting that its not puppy milling because the animals must be happy.. I'm not even the only person referring to SOME (not all of them!!!) breeding zoos as puppy mills. There is a youtube channel saying tips to be successful in franchise with hundreds and thousands of followers and one of the tips is PUPPY MILLS (not what you do!!!) THAT IS MY PROBLEM.

I know what real life puppy mills are, I know that overbreeding is a problem with pets in general and that these puppy mills play a part of it, but I'm still saying that the main problem with these puppy mills are the aweful ways they treat the animals, as thay often live in absolutly horrible conditions.
Ok, so now you are doing the same thing you accused me of... I never said that you are the only one that are comparing ingame breeding to puppy mills, I never said that you Invented the term... I am saying, again, that I think that the term "puppy mill" do NOT apply to this game, as pointed out many times by both you and me, the main problems with puppy mills are Bad treatment and Over breeding, both of wich do NOT apply to this game.

And yes I am breeding animals in this game too, and I'm not using the trade centre. I do it in challenge mode, so money, is a thing and yes its MUCH slower than if I used storage, but not impossible, not even difficult. Just slower.

And again, good for you. If you don't want to use it, don't use it. But for many players it is vital (especially when playing franchise). So let them have it!

Thats my opinion, and how I see the world, maybe I expect too much from a game that is just for fun and for people to care for computer rendered images, but I am passionate about animals.

AGAIN I expect too much from THE GAME.. I also happen to think there are lots of garbage people out there, but I don't see how I 'implied' that people who breed perfect stat animals don't care about real life animals.

I did not mean that I do not think that.. please don't twist my words.

I did not twist your words at all. You sayd that this playstyle (breeding programs) is unethical and greedy and that you think that way because you are passionate about animals. How is that NOT implying that you think that people who do not find this playstyle unethical or greedy are not passionate about animals. Maybe it wasn't your meaning to make it sound like that, but that doesn't change the fact that that is what you are implying, intensional or not.

 

[Arrakai]

- "While overbreeding is a problem irl when it comes to pets, Puppy Mills are mosty infamous for their misstreatment of the animals" This is like saying the Eiffel tower is infamous because an architect named Eiffel designed it. NO.. they are called puppy mills because the problem they create is over-breeding, otherwise they would just blend into the "Animal Abuse" category, the reason they are standing apart from any animal abusers, is because not only they are mistreating the animals, but also cause a huge problems to the market, while animal abusers who lock their horses in a stable and leave them without food and water and care are just called animal abusers, because they are just that, garbage people.

sigh... I don't know how many times I have to ssay this. I DIDN'T say that the puppy mills do NOT contribute to the overbreeding of pets, But if you compare them to regular breeders, the MAIN difference is that the animals in puppy mills are treated incredably cruel and the puppys from them are often very sick, since they do not care at all about their animals, they just want to make money. That is what they are MOST infamous for...

- It will not destroy the market because the devs are controlling it, they create both supply and demand, if no one bred ever at all, the market would still work, and if suddenly everyone swarmed the market with 100 animals to trade per species, you would still have the same supply and demand, as you do now.

wow, this sentence just goes to show that you have no idea how franchise work...
In sandbox and challenge mode that is true, but NOT in franchise. And that is one of the main differences between the modes. In franchise it is the Players that for the most part are controlling the market. Frontier usually puts up 4-6 animals every 10min or so, wich EVERY player that plays franchise have to compete to get. So if players do not put up animals on the market, there often are no animals at all there.

 

[NL_Mutso]

So basically this whole suggestion could be avoided by: People who have an issue with this/want more challenge, could just stop using the storage at all ??

You sayd that this playstyle (breeding programs) is unethical and greedy and that you think that way because you are passionate about animals. How is that NOT implying that you think that people who do not find this playstyle unethical or greedy are not passionate about animals. Maybe it wasn't your meaning to make it sound like that, but that doesn't change the fact that that is what you are implying, intensional or not.

Hate to say it, but it came across exactly like that to me as well.

 

[The European]

Oh hey we are getting somewhere!!

Now who is twisting words? (a thing you just love to point out that I am doing). I mean THE PLAYSTYLE I PLAY, NOT ONLY ME (is that clear enough). And since you say the playstyle is unethical and greedy, that IS saying that the people that play it that way is doing an unethical, greedy thing, wich is what I have a problem with.

Yes I twisted your words a little here, because you kept insisting that I am offending you personally because of your play-style. Which is not true. I even said the way you explain how you play seems fine to me, seems like a genuine breeding program, and I have no problem with it. I wouldn't play it the way you do, but that is fine we are different people.

My problem is with Puppy Mill zoos which I find unethical and I would like it if the game would make it more difficult to have those. Not your profitable decorated zoos that animals are breeding in.

Eh, first of all, having two mates that both have 100% stats is not a guarantee that the babys will have that, that is why you compare mates, not just look at their stats.
Yes, some people might do it like this, but it is in no way an effective way of breeding, since it requires alot of micromanaging and take even longer than normal breeding.

I'm aware its no guarantee, and I do compare mates, as I said I breed too. You see you are saying this is not effective (from which I'm assuming this is not how you do it) so why is it a problem then if this is made more difficult?

Well good for you that that works for you. I didn't say that breeding is impossible without a tradecentre, but a Breeding program with more than a few breeding pairs would be next to impossible, especially if you start out with bad stat animals (wich is often the only ones that you can find in the market). Because without it, the animals risk getting old before you find a good mate for them. And you are even pointing out that you do not even use the tradecentre, yet you are suggesting that they change it, wich would not affect you at all, but would make the game worse for other people. That I think is unethical.

Aging rate can be slowed down. I do use the trade centre no animal trading otherwise, but I don't store animals there, that's true, and my suggestion was that if the animals are in the storage (refined by other players: and not in trade, or not in franchise at all) for a long time, they would become stressed, and the first and main reason I suggested this is because I think it would be more realistic, and in that sense it would apply to me too. The second reason is because it would make it harder to set up a puppy mill zoo. I get it, it would make it more difficult for decent breeding programmes too, but the way you explained how you play, I don't think it would cause that much difficulty to you or other decent breeding programmes. (I'd love to try, so if you send me a DM about what targets are you trying to hit in what time scale I would be happy to give it a go my way and see if I fail) And again.. I don't see why adding a bit more challenge in any of the modes is a bad thing, but I can also see many people are against this happening in franchise, so okay, add this feature to challenge mode, make it more challenging I will play with that, you can play franchise.

Ok, so with horses that is fine, but that does not mean that it works the same for other animals. And as I have pointed out before, in this game there are only two stages; baby and adult. And as I also stated, not alot of animals stay close to their mother or get parental care up until they reach adulthood. Or are you saying that horses need their mother and stay with her until they are 3-4 years old? Because as far as I know, the foal gets removed from the mother before it turnes one and if you do not remove it, you risk the mother injuring it when it turns older.

Horse herd hierarchy is a thing, true, but no you don't have to remove the baby, the mom "removes" it herself when she gets pregnant again and is preparing herself to have another baby, or she stops producing milk, and removing just means the mom is not allowing them to suckle anymore, and then they can live in the same herd for the rest of their lives, they will regard each other as any fertile female so there will be a hierarchy but that's all. No they don't need their mom until they are 3-4, but if you remove the baby as a 1 year old and the mother is not expecting again (or this hasn't happened to her 10 times before) they will both freak out. In fact the baby will still freak out even if the mom ' doesn't care', and there.. you said they would be stressed if a field mate was removed, no, but the field mate that gets removed, they would freak out... but thats an other suggestion to make... like all animals from the market arrive a bit stressed when you put them in their new habitat and they settle in in about a week... like a 50% stress level with a "New to the zoo" note - for realism's sake. hmmm

and yes that would mean my method of removing so there wouldn't be fighting, would mean I end up with stressed animals too. So I will have to pay more attention do better manage more, it will be more difficult for me too, and it would be cool, and more realistic.

and near impossible to play the unethical way of storing the perfect mates and only placing them down to breed then selling the offspring and doing it again (Not what you do, and what I consider puppy milling!)

1. The reason I mentioned insta fighting is because you insist that the babys have to be with their mother until they become adults (wich is not realistic at all) and the insta fighting is a gamemechanic that is making that harder. 2. Yes, I know what contraceptives are, but again, alot of micromanaging for a non issue. 3. Before you mentioned how unethical it is to put an animal back and forth into tradecentre for the porpose of breeding, and now you are suggesting that to stop fighting? or are you suggesting that we have 2-3 habitats for every single species to work around the fighting/mother baby thing? Again, another reason why your suggestion makes no sence. They would not improve the game in any way, or make it realistic. They would not even affect you, just make the game LESS fun for other people.

1 We agree insta fighting needs to be fixed. After that: 2 micro-managing yes the game has lots of micro-managing features, I think not enough, and I would like to see more, so yeah I'm still for this, I would enjoy a bit more challenge and needing to pay more attention 3 If instant fighting was fixed this wouldn't really be an issue, but to clarify, my problem was putting and KEEPING animals in storage. I view the storage as a temporary facility where you can put an animal if there is an issue you need to fix or a problem you need to avoid but is not set up for the animal to stay there for a long time, and hence if they stay there for long they would become stressed, which I think is more realistic than the magic void.. Also I'm not going to quote Locce's reply again, cause I'm pretty sure he/she gets a notif every time and that must be annoying.
I can play around this, I understand that this will probably not happen.

Yes and I have also explained in a numerous ways and over and over again why your suggestions woudn't work, woudn't make the game more realistic and would only make it worse for other players...

And we still disagree.. sooo.. agree to disagree?
Not like we can do much more... it will be up to the devs to change anything or not..

I know what real life puppy mills are, I know that overbreeding is a problem with pets in general and that these puppy mills play a part of it, but I'm still saying that the main problem with these puppy mills are the aweful ways they treat the animals, as thay often live in absolutly horrible conditions.
Ok, so now you are doing the same thing you accused me of... I never said that you are the only one that are comparing ingame breeding to puppy mills, I never said that you Invented the term... I am saying, again, that I think that the term "puppy mill" do NOT apply to this game, as pointed out many times by both you and me, the main problems with puppy mills are Bad treatment and Over breeding, both of wich do NOT apply to this game.

Almost.. so in this game only the over breeding issue is present which is not really an issue because of "Quick trade" and no minimum requirements for "Release to the wild" but just because it has no consequences in the game, it doesn't make it right, and this is what I mean by unethical, and I am sorry if you do this and you think I'm calling you unethical. Its the game allowing it, is what I have a problem with, not the players playing the game in whatever way its possible. I plated the Sims my whole life with cheat codes, I cheated through the whole thing, I killed sims in the sims because I was able to because of the cheat codes, am I unethical? Maybe, I don't think so, I think the game shouldn't have allowed these to happen to begin with. I can see where you are coming from and how it may feel personal, I really don't mean it that way, but also can't really explain it any other way..

And again, good for you. If you don't want to use it, don't use it. But for many players it is vital (especially when playing franchise). So let them have it!

I'm still not a Dev, not making any decisions just made a suggestion. I still don't think it is vital, because the game works well for me without using it.. Like I said I'd be interested to play your way to really see why you and others think its essential, because I can't see it, because I'm not using it (to store animals long term) so if I can make it work why not others, if it adds a sense of realism?

I did not twist your words at all. You sayd that this playstyle (breeding programs) is unethical and greedy and that you think that way because you are passionate about animals. How is that NOT implying that you think that people who do not find this playstyle unethical or greedy are not passionate about animals. Maybe it wasn't your meaning to make it sound like that, but that doesn't change the fact that that is what you are implying, intensional or not.

Again, not breeding programmes, but puppy milling, they are not the same thing.

I said -Maybe I expect too much from A GAME, because I'm passionate about animals.- I'm still expecting the game to not allow / make it difficult to do unethical things with it, not the players to not play the game any way possible. Try watching "Lets Game it Out" youtube channel's Planet Zoo videos, maybe you would understand a bit better what I mean from expectations from the game not the player, because I can't explain it any more or any better, I really did not mean to offend anyone, and I really apologise if I did.
Like I said I have been made aware that I can be too direct, and assume that everyone gets the context that I mean things in, which can come across as offensive/rude. I'm sorry about that.

 

[The European]

So basically this whole suggestion could be avoided by: People who have an issue with this/want more challenge, could just stop using the storage at all ??


Hate to say it, but it came across exactly like that to me as well.

Yeah this was kind of concluded several posts ago, where I said:

I have an idea that would make this better (in my opinion) based on that post, and it would eliminate the need for storage, but that would require pretty fundamental changes to the game, so I don't think it would ever happen, so I just play around it and have it as a rule for myself to not have animals in storage for prolonged times and wait until I can buy enough animals all at once (even with bad genes) to fulfil minimum herd requirements.

and then we got into a debate about breeding programmes and puppy milling and how the babies suggestion would and or wouldn't work, how horse herds work in real life and did talk about the storage suggestion again as well etc. which I think was/is an interesting debate allowing us to learn about other peoples way of playing the game, and discussing genuine real life problems.. we are just about getting into discussing how higher powers control the markets.

and from my last post this will apply to you too:

I said -Maybe I expect too much from A GAME, because I'm passionate about animals.- I'm still expecting the game to not allow / make it difficult to do unethical things with it, not the players to not play the game any way possible. Try watching "Lets Game it Out" youtube channel's Planet Zoo videos, maybe you would understand a bit better what I mean from expectations from the game not the player, because I can't explain it any more or any better, I really did not mean to offend anyone, and I really apologise if I did.
Like I said I have been made aware that I can be too direct, and assume that everyone gets the context that I mean things in, which can come across as offensive/rude. I'm sorry about that.

 

[The European]

wow, this sentence just goes to show that you have no idea how franchise work...
In sandbox and challenge mode that is true, but NOT in franchise. And that is one of the main differences between the modes. In franchise it is the Players that for the most part are controlling the market. Frontier usually puts up 4-6 animals every 10min or so, wich EVERY player that plays franchise have to compete to get. So if players do not put up animals on the market, there often are no animals at all there.

You are a little naive to think that the devs don't control the market just leave the players to it and add a few animals here and there. After you traded an animal and got your CC or money for it you don't know where that animal goes, I am quite sure a lot of them are "bought" by the devs, and thats how they create demand, and make sure the market doesn't fill up with 100% stat animals because it would remove the breeding element from the game completely.

They still do it within the market, so yeah if lots of players all together decided to trade 100 animals all at once, that would cause some temporary unbalance, it wasn't entirely accurate to say you would still see the same supply-demand, but it would go back to its norm fairly soon, because the devs would make it so.

 

[Arrakai]

Yes, we are clearly not agreeing and I'm getting pretty tired of this discussion, so this will be my last post on the subject.

I still think that these are horrible suggestions that wouldn't improve the gameplay for anyone, but would make the game lot more stressfull and less fun for ALOT of players, and even though you don't think so, I know it would affect my gamplay in a big negative way.

If you want to try my playstyle, just do like this;

1. Make a zoo and make sure it's at least a bit profitable (I usually make sure to have at least 10-20million cash before I start the breeding program (with higher cost animals you might need more)
2. Make 10-14 habitats for your breeding animals and get 10-14 of both male and female (with herd animals you need way more females)
3. Now start the breeding program. You are done when you have AT LEAST 40 perfect babys (20 male, 20 female).
If you can manage to do that without ever using the tradecentre to "store" animals without it taking months, I applaude you.

 

[Arrakai]

You are a little naive to think that the devs don't control the market just leave the players to it and add a few animals here and there. After you traded an animal and got your CC or money for it you don't know where that animal goes, I am quite sure a lot of them are "bought" by the devs, and thats how they create demand, and make sure the market doesn't fill up with 100% stat animals because it would remove the breeding element from the game completely.

They still do it within the market, so yeah if lots of players all together decided to trade 100 animals all at once, that would cause some temporary unbalance, it wasn't entirely accurate to say you would still see the same supply-demand, but it would go back to its norm fairly soon, because the devs would make it so.

I know I said I wouldn't post more on this subject, but this post just made me laugh! It's super clear that you have never played franchise and have no idea how it works if you think that is what is happening...

 

[NL_Mutso]

My problem is with Puppy Mill zoos which I find unethical and I would like it if the game would make it more difficult to have those. Not your profitable decorated zoos that animals are breeding in.

So, work on your personal issues? You find it unethical in a videogame and want the game to be changed or something more difficult, because you have different opinion of what people should do in a videogame? Some people have issues with everything...

and from my last post this will apply to you too:

I said -Maybe I expect too much from A GAME, because I'm passionate about animals.- I'm still expecting the game to not allow / make it difficult to do unethical things with it, not the players to not play the game any way possible. Try watching "Lets Game it Out" youtube channel's Planet Zoo videos, maybe you would understand a bit better what I mean from expectations from the game not the player, because I can't explain it any more or any better, I really did not mean to offend anyone, and I really apologise if I did.
Like I said I have been made aware that I can be too direct, and assume that everyone gets the context that I mean things in, which can come across as offensive/rude. I'm sorry about that.

You just can't stop with that bad tone, can't you?

 

[The European]

Okay we agree on 1 thing this conversation is over.

I actually appreciated it right til now, but OH MY GOD this is a creative game, why the speed run-max out attitude? 10-20 million? 40 perfect animals in less than a month?? WHY? I wanted to try it but this does not sound enjoyable to me at all, so no I'll stay away from it.. Not to mention you said you play 3-8 hours a day (earlier post)? I work full time I don't stand a chance to not do it in months.

Makes more sense now why you don't want any more difficulties added, yep my suggestions would make what you do much more difficult I can now see that...

But... I still think they would be cool if they were implemented. I don't think they will be but I know I would enjoy the game more with that touch of realism added.

 

[The European]

So, work on your personal issues? You find it unethical in a videogame and want the game to be changed or something more difficult, because you have different opinion of what people should do in a videogame? Some people have issues with everything...


You just can't stop with that bad tone, can't you?

Work on my personal issues? Like what? say: Oh actually because a lot of people play this game in a way I disagree with I will go cry in the corner and accept that puppy milling is a social norm??? What the hell are you on about???

I made a suggestion based on my opinion. I have no personal issues with anyone. People disagree they disagree, okay..

Can't stop with the bad tone?? What is the bad tone in: Sorry if I offended you I did not mean to??

 

[shirandhak]

No, it won't be cool - it would be horrible and make the game a pain for many people. And it won't be more realistic but less playable (because the tradingcenter got nothing to do with realism but with playability)..
I'm tired of this discussion, too.
Please accept, that many people feel offended by your insisting that their playingstyle is called "unethical" by you. And PLEASE stop repeating the same all over again. You've made your point clear. It's your opinion. That's fine. We disagree. That's fine. No bad feelings. End of story.

 

[Arrakai]

Okay we agree on 1 thing this conversation is over.

I actually appreciated it right til now, but OH MY GOD this is a creative game, why the speed run-max out attitude? 10-20 million? 40 perfect animals in less than a month?? WHY? I wanted to try it but this does not sound enjoyable to me at all, so no I'll stay away from it.. Not to mention you said you play 3-8 hours a day (earlier post)? I work full time I don't stand a chance to not do it in months.

Makes more sense now why you don't want any more difficulties added, yep my suggestions would make what you do much more difficult I can now see that...

But... I still think they would be cool if they were implemented. I don't think they will be but I know I would enjoy the game more with that touch of realism added.

ok, I promise, this WILL be my last post.

Why I do this? Because this is what I find fun and challenging in this game See we all have different views on this.
Breeding one perfect baby = no challenge at all
Breeding 40 perfect babys of every habitat species = Now that IS a challenge! + the fact that I have to make zoo's for all the babys (have done 6 so far, the goal is 8 for now, each with a starting profit of 25million before adding any babys)

I know that this is a huge project that will probably take me years to complete, but I find it fun and it means I have a clear goal with the game

(and since I work mostly nightshifts and only 75%, I have the time)

And thank you for finally understand why I think these sugesstions would be horrible for me (even though you fail to see that many many people would be affected in a negavite way)

 

[NL_Mutso]

Work on my personal issues? Like what? say: Oh actually because a lot of people play this game in a way I disagree with I will go cry in the corner and accept that puppy milling is a social norm??? What the hell are you on about???

Gotta love that self-creating argument here. Puppy milling a social norm, where did we say that?
If people want to play a game in a specific way or just for other reasons, they should be allowed to do this. And they shouldn't be limited because someone is pushing their political correctness in a videogame. This has never been accepted in the gaming industry.
You can't properly distinguish RL with a videogame. That's fine but don't judge/lecture/criticize people who can...
Also don't play GTAV/Battlefield/CoD, if you have an issue with guns.

I breed loads of animals with good stats, so other people can enjoy a good animal in their zoo at a decent price. There are a lot of players who sell their animals for 1cc, just to contribute. Judging from your posts, you consider our playstyle to do this "unethical". I don't care about your opinion about me but this idea will hit players who help other players. In the offline modes it's even more difficult to maintain a good breeding program without outside player's help.
It takes a lot of time and good planning to run a proper breeding program. (when you implement this in a normal running zoo)

Can't stop with the bad tone?? What is the bad tone in: Sorry if I offended you I did not mean to??

You're trolling, right? But Arrakai already pointed out one argument earlier.
But from the start it's demeaning, preachy, lecturing.
And yes it's a bad way of saying sorry. Most people will mention this once, try to pick their words more carefully in their next comments (without changing their pov). You just slap your basic copy/paste sorry after your repetitive negative comments. And somehow think that's a good thing?
(Offfend -> Sorry -> Offend with the same words -> sorry again)

Last post in this topic for me. I don't want to contribute into bumping this idea anymore.

 

[The European]

Gotta love that self-creating argument here. Puppy milling a social norm, where did we say that?
If people want to play a game in a specific way or just for other reasons, they should be allowed to do this. And they shouldn't be limited because someone is pushing their political correctness in a videogame. This has never been accepted in the gaming industry.
You can't properly distinguish RL with a videogame. That's fine but don't judge/lecture/criticize people who can...
Also don't play GTAV/Battlefield/CoD, if you have an issue with guns.

You didn't say that, you said I have personal issues, and I tried to figure out what you mean by that, because it makes no sense, and you didn't say anything to support your judgement.

Yep thats what I said too, my problem is not with the players playing the game, in what ever way they want to, I made a suggestion so THE GAME would be more politically correct (that is a very good expression to sum up my suggestions). I think this game has great educational value about conservation and caring for the animals so I think its a shame when its turned into a puppy mill, so I made a suggestion to which the devs can either listen to or not. I will never be the one to limit anyone from doing anything, because the decision is not mine, and you are welcome to make a suggestion that makes my style of playing more difficult, that's what the forum is for.. to suggest things.

I can distinguish it. I can see a difference. That's why I suggested things to make it more realistic, because it would be cool if technology developed and games would be more and more realistic and eventually we wouldn't have real zoos just VR ones.
I probably expect too much from this game.

I breed loads of animals with good stats, so other people can enjoy a good animal in their zoo at a decent price. There are a lot of players who sell their animals for 1cc, just to contribute. Judging from your posts, you consider our playstyle to do this "unethical". I don't care about your opinion about me but this idea will hit players who help other players. In the offline modes it's even more difficult to maintain a good breeding program without outside player's help.
It takes a lot of time and good planning to run a proper breeding program. (when you implement this in a normal running zoo)

Have you been following along? No, breeding programmes are not the same as puppy milling, and I have no problems with breeding programmes.

You're trolling, right? But Arrakai already pointed out one argument earlier.
But from the start it's demeaning, preachy, lecturing.
And yes it's a bad way of saying sorry. Most people will mention this once, try to pick their words more carefully in their next comments (without changing their pov). You just slap your basic copy/paste sorry after your repetitive negative comments. And somehow think that's a good thing?
(Offfend -> Sorry -> Offend with the same words -> sorry again)

Last post in this topic for me. I don't want to contribute into bumping this idea anymore.

I don't know what to say to this... I apologised, and I meant it, I still never meant to offend anyone PERSONALLY, I disagree with an aspect of THE GAME not the people playing it, I pointed out a fault I know I have: "I can be too direct, and assume that everyone gets the context that I mean things in, which can come across as offensive/rude. I'm sorry about that."

So as to follow your flow chart: --> say my opinion --> people react, take it personally and get offended --> I react to their reaction, I explain it was nothing personal from me --> some understand some get more offended because I apologised?


Some people have issues with everything...

 

[shirandhak]

We don't want the game to be more political correct. Please get this.
We don't want to be educated neither by you nor by the game. Most of us are grown ups (I'm 60 and I've got university master grade - no need for more education here). It is enough to educate our zooguests. Go and program your own game instead of trying to hyjack ours. Thank you.
I'm direct, too. I apologise.

 

[The European]

We don't want the game to be more political correct. Please get this.
We don't want to be educated neither by you nor by the game. Most of us are grown ups (I'm 60 and I've got university master grade - no need for more education here). It is enough to educate our zooguests. Go and program your own game instead of trying to hyjack ours. Thank you.
I'm direct, too. I apologise.

I'm grown up too... I have a PhD. but I don't think I know everything or even just that I know enough. I never stop learning about this world we live in, and I like to take every opportunity to do so, and I am glad this game does teach, and aims to teach, and it would be great if it did that even more.
I understand.. you don't want to learn more, I can't say anything to that, except that I think its sad.

 

[shirandhak]

I'm always open to learn more - but I don't think I need you for being my teacher.
If I feel the need for learning more things I search for methods of learning them (and it will not necessaryly be a game I will look for). I need no preacher. Thank you.

 

[The European]

Clearly it doesn't matter how many times I will repeat this, if you DON'T WANT TO understand it but here goes again:
I shared information supporting my suggestion. NOT TO TEACH YOU or anybody, nor to preach.
I apologise if the way I shared this information made you feel bad about yourself, that was not my intention.

If I feel the need for learning more things I search for methods of learning them (and it will not necessaryly be a game I will look for).

Of course not, but why is it so bad if while you are relaxing and enjoying a game, you learn something?

But at this point you are just arguing for the sake of arguing and contradicting yourself:

Most of us are grown ups (I'm 60 and I've got university master grade - no need for more education here).

I'm always open to learn more

As before, I stand by suggestions, I understand that you disagree. It is not my decision I just made a suggestion which you are also perfectly welcome to do.