Sub-surface mining... behaving unexpectedly (or just plain broken?)

I never tried to analyse the width of a deposit, 1-4 bars etc. but I did a lot of SSD mining recently because we were on the Magellan Expedition where we had to refuel our 3 carriers as we went. The trip was so long, a very roundabout trip to Magellan's Star and back to the bubble, so even with a full cargo hold of tritium in each carrier (approx 19,000t) some mining was still necessary. It was a specific test to discover how easy or otherwise refuelling a carrier in the middle of nowhere as you travelled actually was, with the mining included as part of the expedition.

SSD mining out in the black was faster than laser mining because it could be done in any single hotspot, no special conditions were required to do it and they were quite easy to find in icy rings. Someone would find an icy ring with a tritium hotspot, call over one of the carriers, grab their mining ship off the carrier, mine for an hour or two then get back to exploring.

Use the pulse wave scanner and any glowing ones will have a good chance of surface and sub surface deposits, so anyone can do it. The trusty Python is perfect for SSD mining with a good combination of agility and cargo space.

The only time laser mining was faster than SSD - remembering this is in the black with no hotspots found by anyone already which was part of the experiment - was if someone went to the trouble of making a mining map and then we wing mined, but that relies on someone willing to make one on the fly. That's fine if someone volunteers to do so but it wasn't something we felt was fair to expect of people and plus we wanted to find a way that anyone could just pick up and do with a bit of practice. Overlapping hotspots, the other way of making laser mining faster, are extremely rare in the black and by the time anybody found one, if at all, we could drop into any single hotspot and SSD for around 150-200t an hour.

We therefore showed that taking a carrier out in the black and mining as you go is possible, you can take an hour or two out from exploring to grab tritium with SSDs from any icy ring and a single hotspot, which makes for a bit of variety as you can break up each activity by alternating between them. I'd still advise stocking to the gills with tritium before you go, but if you don't it is doable to grab enough for a few jumps as you travel.

If I was mining tritium for profit, though, I'd go to a double or triple hotspot in or near the bubble and/or use a mining map where laser mining, especially in a wing, would be quicker.
 
I like sub-surface mining but have mostly used it as a form of relaxation, so haven't paid too much attention to the details. Having said that, at the recent mining CG, sub-surface mining in a hotspot seemed to increase the yield of Methanol Monohydrate and the hydroxide. These were alexandrite and grandiderite hotspots. Also my gut feel would be that you get more chunks from 1 and 2 bars, compared to 3 and 4, but that could be other effects at play.

Anyway I need to fill the carrier with trit so I am going to get some actual numbers over the next day or so.
 
You have the usual CMDR Exigeous tutorial on it :
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5esd-dvVeFk

The text version if you don't want a video, with also a pictures of what the roids you want look like (they all look the same) :
https://www.edtutorials.com/mining/smokes-guide-to-core-mining/

I used this quick reference guide myself, which is in the Exigeous video.
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Also, I'm not sure, but it seems changing your UI color thanks to EDHM UI makes the core asteroid glow a different color with the pulse wave ? Which make it super strong if so.
I suspect that the "tells" for core asteroids depend a lot on your graphics card and setup. I notice green edges and a big contrast between black and bright pixillation at the beginning and end of a pulse. The pixillation can be so black that the asteroid briefly looks blackened in the middle. I know that other players don't always see it like this though.
 
I suspect that the "tells" for core asteroids depend a lot on your graphics card and setup. I notice green edges and a big contrast between black and bright pixillation at the beginning and end of a pulse. The pixillation can be so black that the asteroid briefly looks blackened in the middle. I know that other players don't always see it like this though.
The video also only shows rocks from Horizons but they don't look the same in Odyssey. In Odyssey cores are more simplified and don't have the different colours that they did before i.e. the reds, greens and blacks that show in Horizons in the latter half of the pulse wave scan. Cores in Odyssey are simply those which glow brighter than the rest. So if it is glowing it is most likely a source of surface and sub surface deposits and if it's really glowing, like hurt your eyes glowing, it's a core. I'm running in 1080p with everything on ultra so I don't think it's setup, can't rule it out I suppose but that seems unlikely. I think it's a genuine change in how they look now.
 
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When matching quality with density I seem to get a better yield, also more chunks out of a rock before the SSD disappears. As I say, not tested fully but worth trying to see if you get the same results.
AFAIK the width of the blue stripe doesn't affect the number of chunks you can get. It just varies the difficulty of extracting.

Subsurface deposits have been buffed: they give more chunks than they used to.
Interesting. So a 1 bar is no different from a 3 bar in that respect. Good to know.
  • Every SSD has a fixed number of tries (3-9, inclusive). If after your first shot the percentage sits at 66% the next one will lower it to 33%, regardless of which blue stripe you hit.
  • The number of chunks released depends very much on the width of the blue stripe, though it's less noticeable with Tritium because (as OP correctly observed) the maximum amount is 4. Other minerals however have different maximum values. For LTDs it is much higher (7 IIRC), making the correlation very obvious. Consequentially, ignoring stripes of size 1 in favor of size 2 when mining Tritium has a very low impact on overall extraction rate whereas for LTDs size 1 stripes are the primary target.
 
  • Every SSD has a fixed number of tries (3-9, inclusive). If after your first shot the percentage sits at 66% the next one will lower it to 33%, regardless of which blue stripe you hit.
  • The number of chunks released depends very much on the width of the blue stripe, though it's less noticeable with Tritium because (as OP correctly observed) the maximum amount is 4. Other minerals however have different maximum values. For LTDs it is much higher (7 IIRC), making the correlation very obvious. Consequentially, ignoring stripes of size 1 in favor of size 2 when mining Tritium has a very low impact on overall extraction rate whereas for LTDs size 1 stripes are the primary target.
Interesting. I did not ignore any due to their width, I hit them all regardless, but thanks for the clarification.
 
I suspect that the "tells" for core asteroids depend a lot on your graphics card and setup.
Argh, yes I do now remember hearing that in the past. Bit of a bummer really...
The video also only shows rocks from Horizons but they don't look the same in Odyssey. In Odyssey cores are more simplified and don't have the different colours that they did before i.e. the reds, greens and blacks that show in Horizons in the latter half of the pulse wave scan. Cores in Odyssey are simply those which glow brighter than the rest.
...but this is a bummer on a different level. I haven't yet bought EDO (seems pointless with a GTX 970) but things like this really put me off it. This "feature"/change really should have been reverted once it was spotted, but I guess with a year having passed, it must be considered to be "working as intended" :rolleyes:
 
  • Every SSD has a fixed number of tries (3-9, inclusive). If after your first shot the percentage sits at 66% the next one will lower it to 33%, regardless of which blue stripe you hit.
  • The number of chunks released depends very much on the width of the blue stripe, though it's less noticeable with Tritium because (as OP correctly observed) the maximum amount is 4. Other minerals however have different maximum values. For LTDs it is much higher (7 IIRC), making the correlation very obvious. Consequentially, ignoring stripes of size 1 in favor of size 2 when mining Tritium has a very low impact on overall extraction rate whereas for LTDs size 1 stripes are the primary target.
Oh, are you saying that narrow stripes give more chunks? I have to admit I usually pass over the single-pixel ones; I might have to rethink that.
 
Argh, yes I do now remember hearing that in the past. Bit of a bummer really...

...but this is a bummer on a different level. I haven't yet bought EDO (seems pointless with a GTX 970) but things like this really put me off it. This "feature"/change really should have been reverted once it was spotted, but I guess with a year having passed, it must be considered to be "working as intended" :rolleyes:
They still work the same way in Horizons as far as I know.
 
As a test, I did a bunch of SSD mining in an Alexandrite hotspot (selected by accident!) last night.

See spoiler for the raw yields from each type of deposit. Bottom line though: on the single LTD deposit I found, I hit 3 single-width zones for an average of 5.3 chunks each time and 6 double-width zones for exactly 5 chunks every time. So... narrow was better but not by a lot. (But: 28 tons of LTD from ONE deposit !@#?! holy fup!)

For tritium, I only hit two deposits (wrong hotspot, LOL) but the numbers were much as I had remembered: double-width zones gave a little over 2.5 chunks each and the sole single-width zone I found was 3 chunks. The triple/quad-width zones gave 1-2 chunks each.

Hydrogen peroxide, water, bromellite and liquid oxygen were all basically identical patterns to the tritium, i.e. MUCH lower than LTD and modest variation with zone width. But then again I literally found just one LTD SSD the entire time I was mining, including a dedicated half-hour afterwards in an LTD hotspot, so... meh for LTD SSD mining.

After taking this data, I realised that someone else out there was simply guaranteed to have done this already (but better), so I had a concerted go at searching again. I then found this lovely reddit post which has a nice graph of the results for LTD deposits. The average yields were quite a bit higher than mine but it was done in an "LTD3" (presumably triple overlap). Overall the same pattern is very clear - more chunks for a single than a double, but barely worth bothering with. (By eyeball from the barchart, I'd say 7.8 chunks per double, and 8.4 per single.)

Guess I won't worry about hitting the singles anymore...

Tritium summary:
6 tries: 1=3, 2=3,2,3, 3=2, 4=1
9 tries: 2=2,2,3,3,2,3, 3=1, 4=2(!?I think!!) (one miss)

LTD:
9 tries: 1=5,6,5, 2=5,5,5,5,5,5 (28 tons from ONE deposit!)

Hyd perox:
3 tries: 1=2, 2=2, 4=1
9 tries: 2=2,2,2,2,2, 3=1, 4=1 (one miss)

Liquid ox:
6 tries: 2=2,2,2,2, 3=1,2

Bromellite:
4 tries: 1=2, 2=2, 3=1 (one miss)
8 tries: 1=2, 2=2,2,2, 3=1, 4=1 (two misses)
5 tries: 1=2, 2=2,2, 3=1 (one miss)

Water:
5 tries: 1=2,2, 2=2,2 (one miss)

Finished off with a single Alexandrite core (17 tons). Visited LTD hotspot straight afterwards, looked for maybe 30 minutes without finding a SINGLE LTD SSD, then hit a core and got a mere 13 tons of LTD...
 
Bottom line though: on the single LTD deposit I found, I hit 3 single-width zones for an average of 5.3 chunks each time and 6 double-width zones for exactly 5 chunks every time. So... narrow was better but not by a lot. (But: 28 tons of LTD from ONE deposit !@#?! holy fup!)

Yea, funny thing isn't it?
Back then in July 2020 when they tried to buff tritium ssd mining... the only managed to improve ltd ssd mining.
And they improved it so much than they had to triple kill all the mining of precious minerals to tone down the ltd mining income (hotspot nerfed, prices nerfed, demand and bulk sale tax)
 
Oh, are you saying that narrow stripes give more chunks? I have to admit I usually pass over the single-pixel ones; I might have to rethink that.
Pretty much answered by the following posts already but yes. Most of the time I skip single width as well though and focus on size 2 exclusively. The exception being LTDs which are still valuable enough that it is worth the extra effort.

Yea, funny thing isn't it?
Back then in July 2020 when they tried to buff tritium ssd mining... the only managed to improve ltd ssd mining.
And they improved it so much than they had to triple kill all the mining of precious minerals to tone down the ltd mining income (hotspot nerfed, prices nerfed, demand and bulk sale tax)
Sort of. SSD mining did get a unilateral buff, including tritium. Before FCs and tritium practically no one bothered with SSDs because of abysmal yields compared to VOs and later LTDs/Borann (unless we have a different update in mind out of that flurry of fixes, nerfs, and buffs directly after the FC introduction). In general mining is a more diverse activity these days, so overall FDev went in the right direction - I just wish they had kept the old hotspot mechanic :cry:
 
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