Suggestion for New Player Experience

[rekurzion]

Got the idea after rereading The Dark Wheel and the below is just the high level bullets

NOTE: change the name of solo mode to SimTrainer

new players only have access to the SimTrainer mode and private group during training and pg is only one other player. for the pg another player must be combat ranked dangerous or above and they replace the SimTrainer modes' NPC co-pilot (see below).

new player starts as a crew member on a trade ship being shown the basics (stations, modules, jumping, supercruise, fuel scopping, etc) when they are interdicted and immediately shot down. there is a sequence where the player has to mount a turret and return fire but the ship attacker is in a hardened cobra and the scenario always ends in destruction with the new player floating in an escape pod when the attacker comes into view and blows up the escape pod leaving the player floating in open space. fade to black.

the next scene is the player in a stripped down cobra in dock with only a handful of tons of cargo space. no weapons. no money. the ship was gifted by a minor faction who wants the player to track down the pirate and assassinate them for killing one of their best traders.

new player has some dialogue with a rep from said minor faction who shows the player the basics of the BGS through a series of missions to raise some funds (through trading, mining, exploration, passenger transport) to outfit the cobra in order to complete the assassination mission, which is the first mission the player receives.

the new player is joined with a co-pilot to guide them on their journey (or their iron azzed real player guide via a private group)

the missions should require the new player to defend their ship against pirates ensuring their combat rank reaches mostly harmless (pg player cannot access turrets, only there for verbal support )

the missions will take them through turreted and gimballed weapon use eventually requiring the player to purchase fixed beams

once the beams have been purchased the new player receives a trade mission to an anarchy system which leads them to be interdicted by the pirate who first attacked them.

the player gets one chance. if they destroy the ship, training concludes and their combat rank is elevated to competent (on account the cobra should be master ranked or there about). the cobra is returned and they start in a sidewinder in open with profits from the gutting of the borrowed cobra and their reputation with the minor faction increased to cordial. "thanks for your help commander. now its time to make your way. good luck out there, it's a dangerous galaxy."

if they fail, they still start in a sidewinder but they remain as mostly harmless, do not get the minor faction rep increase and start in the SimTrainer mode. they are not forced to redo the training, they just need to raise their rank on their own now. "maybe you should spend some more time in the SimTrainer, commander. it's a dangerous galaxy out there"

at this point the player has access to all game modes. for players who failed to destroy the pirate they will receive a warning when switching to Open that it is not recommended with their current rank of mostly harmless. this message goes away with a minimum combat rank of competent.

 

[Sylow]

What a long and elaborate piece of biowaste.

Where i have to give credit is that this is the best attempt of disguising the "push everybody to open" agenda by making it seem like it would be beneficial to the new player.

 

[Captain Thea Kreutzer]

Got the idea after rereading The Dark Wheel and the below is just the high level bullets

NOTE: change the name of solo mode to SimTrainer

new players only have access to the SimTrainer mode and private group during training and pg is only one other player. for the pg another player must be combat ranked dangerous or above and they replace the SimTrainer modes' NPC co-pilot (see below).

new player starts as a crew member on a trade ship being shown the basics (stations, modules, jumping, supercruise, fuel scopping, etc) when they are interdicted and immediately shot down. there is a sequence where the player has to mount a turret and return fire but the ship attacker is in a hardened cobra and the scenario always ends in destruction with the new player floating in an escape pod when the attacker comes into view and blows up the escape pod leaving the player floating in open space. fade to black.

the next scene is the player in a stripped down cobra in dock with only a handful of tons of cargo space. no weapons. no money. the ship was gifted by a minor faction who wants the player to track down the pirate and assassinate them for killing one of their best traders.

new player has some dialogue with a rep from said minor faction who shows the player the basics of the BGS through a series of missions to raise some funds (through trading, mining, exploration, passenger transport) to outfit the cobra in order to complete the assassination mission, which is the first mission the player receives.

the new player is joined with a co-pilot to guide them on their journey (or their iron azzed real player guide via a private group)

the missions should require the new player to defend their ship against pirates ensuring their combat rank reaches mostly harmless (pg player cannot access turrets, only there for verbal support )

the missions will take them through turreted and gimballed weapon use eventually requiring the player to purchase fixed beams

once the beams have been purchased the new player receives a trade mission to an anarchy system which leads them to be interdicted by the pirate who first attacked them.

the player gets one chance. if they destroy the ship, training concludes and their combat rank is elevated to competent (on account the cobra should be master ranked or there about). the cobra is returned and they start in a sidewinder in open with profits from the gutting of the borrowed cobra and their reputation with the minor faction increased to cordial. "thanks for your help commander. now its time to make your way. good luck out there, it's a dangerous galaxy."

if they fail, they still start in a sidewinder but they remain as mostly harmless, do not get the minor faction rep increase and start in the SimTrainer mode. they are not forced to redo the training, they just need to raise their rank on their own now. "maybe you should spend some more time in the SimTrainer, commander. it's a dangerous galaxy out there"

at this point the player has access to all game modes. for players who failed to destroy the pirate they will receive a warning when switching to Open that it is not recommended with their current rank of mostly harmless. this message goes away with a minimum combat rank of competent.

Why waste your time writing this? Solo and PG have been the same since there release. It isnt going to change.

 

[Para Handy]

So basically change the name of Solo to "SimTrainer" and thus attempt to create a "stigma" to it and so induce people to not play in Solo.

Sorry - ploy failed - try again.

 

[rekurzion]

...attempt of disguising the "push everybody to open" agenda by making it seem like it would be beneficial to the new player.

what's a better experience in your opinion?

1. log into the game for the first time excited about a vast multiplayer experience only to be exploded after leaving dock from a seal clubber in an engineered FDL?
2. go through a simulated experience of 1 showing you how to handle such an event then setting you loose into the game where you not only expect such an encounter but have a better chance of evading it?

my idea is about setting the right expectations for new players. and i think going through a similar experience as Jason Ryder form the original story is a great way to do it. in that story he was his father's co-pilot who was shot down for little reason by a would be pirate. he then spent the rest of the story trading in his corba to earn enough fund to outfit it so he could avenge his fathers death.

Solo and PG have been the same since there release. It isnt going to change.

they are not the same. solo is an isolated PvE only game mode similar to the original game where PG allows for a custom multiplayer experience. i'm not sure about your point here. can you elaborate?

So basically change the name of Solo to "SimTrainer" and thus attempt to create a "stigma" to it and so induce people to not play in Solo.

SimTrainer was the original name given in the Dark Wheel. It is the environment Jason Ryder and all other pilots used as a training ground to perfect their skills and prepare them for the dangers of the galaxy. a little tongue in cheek nudging of the player to harden up but hardly the stigma you suggest.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

What's better is to avoid the false dichotomies.

 

[Captain Thea Kreutzer]

they are not the same. solo is an isolated PvE only game mode similar to the original game where PG allows for a custom multiplayer experience. i'm not sure about your point here. can you elaborate?

I met the modes by themselves. Neither of them have changed drastically since they were introduced. And I highly doubt Fdev would change it just so that you could have more fun murdering people in open.

 

[Para Handy]

.......
SimTrainer ............. a little tongue in cheek nudging of the player to harden up but hardly the stigma you suggest.

Precisely my point. thanks [haha]

 

[Sylow]

what's a better experience in your opinion?

1. log into the game for the first time excited about a vast multiplayer experience only to be exploded after leaving dock from a seal clubber in an engineered FDL?
2. go through a simulated experience of 1 showing you how to handle such an event then setting you loose into the game where you not only expect such an encounter but have a better chance of evading it?

Sounds reasonable. I would say that the menu needs to be adjusted. The first menu point should be "Solo", then "Private Group" and "Murder Hobo Mode". Where the last one comes with a warning that it's also populated by Murder Hobos and the confirmation box that you really are aware of this and if you really want to enter.

This would do the very same. Also, it carries about the same bias as your suggestion, just seen from the other side.

Also don't forget: by putting "Solo" first, it would transport the message that this is the default mode of operation. This Sounds like an actual upgrade to me, as it would make sure that the absolute beginner player would land there, instead of currently going to open, not realizing that they are heading straight to gankland.

And yes, i am aware that my "suggestion" here is biased, it will be seen as insulting by a number of people, mostly for the reason that it is exactly that. But it's really two sides of the same coin. You yourself confirm that your suggestion wants to tell people to "harden up". And that's exactly how this all reads to me. You try to tell people how to play properly, if they do it differently, they do it wrong. I strongly dislike this idea, without even needing to use some "not my daddy" meme. (Which i did by mentioning it. )

 

[rekurzion]

What's better is to avoid the false dichotomies.

i should make clear my suggestion is meant to target the player who would be frustrated by not knowing what to expect upon playing in open. in that context i presented two choices, no information or more than none. i admit i make an assumption that said player would be frustrated not only because the experience was negative but unexpected and a further assumption that people are less likely to view something as a negative experience if they expect it and know how to deal with it. so in that context, what additional option should be considered?

I met the modes by themselves. Neither of them have changed drastically since they were introduced.

i'm still not understanding. i'm not suggesting changing the game modes at all other than constraining them temporarily during the training to prevent doing the training in open and allowing friends to help you during the training via the private group.

Precisely my point. thanks [haha]

in the dark wheel jason ryder set out to avenge his fathers death with his only combat experience via the SimTrainer. through his journey he was helped by friends of his father who encouraged him to build an 'iron azz', a hardened ship that could survive not only an encounter with his fathers assassin but survive the harsh life of trading.

i'm just looking to bring a little lore into the new player experience. where you say SimTrainer holds stigma, i say the language of Open and Solo are bit stale and seem like placeholders for a better description.

 

[Para Handy]

.......
i'm just looking to bring a little lore into the new player experience. where you say SimTrainer holds stigma, i say the language of Open and Solo are bit stale and seem like placeholders for a better description.

Then change your suggestion to say that New Players will only be allowed to play in Solo or a PG ('cos they were invited) until they had time in game or a level of experience in one of the grades. That way you won't be exposing yourself to the accusation I make of it being yet another "panel van with a stained mattress and a dodgy guy holding a bag of sweeties".

Words are emotive - SimTrainer is naturally emotive - just like "Helpless", "Harmless", etc. are used by Frontier - couched in ways to promote moving beyond that appellation.

 

[rekurzion]

Then change your suggestion to say that New Players will only be allowed to play in Solo or a PG ('cos they were invited) until they had time in game or a level of experience in one of the grades.

i think you misread friend. there are plenty of games that take you through a limited game scenario in order to guide you through use of a games many features with little pressure of the full game on your shoulders. a constrained area to learn. a scenario which i don't see taking longer than a single game session, so an hour or less depending.

did i insult you in some way in a previous post?

 

[Para Handy]

i think you misread friend. there are plenty of games that take you through a limited game scenario in order to guide you through use of a games many features with little pressure of the full game on your shoulders. a constrained area to learn. a scenario which i don't see taking longer than a single game session, so an hour or less depending.

did i insult you in some way in a previous post?

I did not misread - from your OP:

......

NOTE: change the name of solo mode to SimTrainer

.........

So try to read what I was referring to.

I don't know where thoughts of insults come from unless you think me calling your proposed Solo name change an attempt at manipulation was insulting.

Your proposed training hoops that you want someone to jump through is an entirely different proposition to "change the name of solo mode to SimTrainer". (BTW - I don't think new players should be constrained in that way - how would the game differentiate from a clear-save restart for exammple? Sorry, compulsory training is not something I would support any way.)

 

[rekurzion]

BTW - I don't think new players should be constrained in that way

then how would you go about offering a new player experience? particularly giving players the information they need to make the most out of their experience?

how would the game differentiate from a clear-save restart for exammple? Sorry, compulsory training is not something I would support any way.)

the new player experience would be for a brand new player, so their save is already fresh. as for compulsory, i made no remarks of whether the training should be mandatory - part of the reason i suggest the incentive of some credits and minor faction rep increase for completing it successfully. on the other hand i don't see much harm if it was.

another option could be package the current training missions as the 'SimTrainer', not have them required but allow them be taken before starting the new player experience.

 

[phong]

then how would you go about offering a new player experience? particularly giving players the information they need to make the most out of their experience?

Start them in a system in the cone sector,then let them find their way out.

 

[Para Handy]

then how would you go about offering a new player experience? particularly giving players the information they need to make the most out of their experience?



the new player experience would be for a brand new player, so their save is already fresh. as for compulsory, i made no remarks of whether the training should be mandatory - part of the reason i suggest the incentive of some credits and minor faction rep increase for completing it successfully. on the other hand i don't see much harm if it was.

another option could be package the current training missions as the 'SimTrainer', not have them required but allow them be taken before starting the new player experience.

I think if you just got the "SimTrainer" bee out of your bonnet you might see a way forward.


Basically I am just calling you out over your proposal to rename Solo Play to "SimTrainer".


The rest of your proposal I can happily see being constructed as an OPTIONAL choice for players. Just like the welcome mission is a choice, your "new player experience" could be input to the game but frankly, the probablity of F D doing such a thing is infinitesimally low. Let's face it the current "new player experience" involves finding out which parts of the manual are completely obsolete and having to search about for information on how engineers, trading, etc actually works now.

 

[rekurzion]

I think if you just got the "SimTrainer" bee out of your bonnet you might see a way forward.


Basically I am just calling you out over your proposal to rename Solo Play to "SimTrainer".


The rest of your proposal I can happily see being constructed as an OPTIONAL choice for players. Just like the welcome mission is a choice, your "new player experience" could be input to the game but frankly, the probablity of F D doing such a thing is infinitesimally low. Let's face it the current "new player experience" involves finding out which parts of the manual are completely obsolete and having to search about for information on how engineers, trading, etc actually works now.

i know what you were hung up on, you made that clear in your first post. to each their own.

however, the reason i'm posting something on this topic now is precisely because FD is looking at updates that will...

... primarily focus on new player and welcoming experiences

but we are getting somewhere in the discussion. the SimTrainer bit was a nod and a wink to the original novella. nothing more. something that was meant to be fun, not a veiled attempted at constraining players into open so i can murder some seals and stigmatize lesser mortals for hiding in solo. i know those aren't all of your words but appear to be the collected first opinions i've gotten so far.

i incorrectly thought players might like seeing some original lore mixed into the new player experience. oh well.

 

[waylork]

Yall love to try to make this game way more complicated than it is. All that has to be done is to expand upon the current montor mission system, WHICH NO ONE SEEMS TO KNOW ABOUT. It blows my mind, like there is a mentor systme set up in game, but i'd be willing to bet 98% of the player base completely skipped/ignored it. Lemme break it down, and then i'll break down how the NPE (New Player Experiece) should be handled.

So when you first log in you do the first mission to drop off the cargo at Eravate, or whatever. when you complete this first mission, you get a piece of mail from i-forget-who and it basically explains that mentors are offering missions in the three main disciplines, trading, exploration, and combat. 3 systems, 3 stations, depending which you want to check out first. for a new player this isnt made clear, and generally at the point in the game when you are presented with it you are one of two things:
1. someone who found the game by chance and has no idea what they are doing.
in this case, checking your mail for a new mission isnt going to be the first thought to you, you will likely either check the mission board at eravate, or you will consult online for help. checking mail in a new game isnt really something that most players are going to think of off the rip, and thats been made clear by the massive lack of people who know about mentor missions. this is the point when the average person is going to lose interest in the game. not to mention these systems are high gank traffic areas.
2. they have friends who play and were convinced to get the game to play with friends. if this is the case it is almost guarenteed that they will skip the mentor missions, as their friends will probably come up with some introductory experience, and in many cases, i have found this to drive players away more than it keeps them. no offense to your personal elite noob guide, but at least in my experience a healthy knowledge of the game and its mechanics outweighs getting your buddy into an unengineered AX conda in a week. hot take?

For these reasons i see one path for FDev to make the NPE really something that hooks players, and really makes people want to keep playing, and if we are lucky one that makes more people want to play in open.

So for the lifetime of elite it has had a very complex story, one that is not presented to the new player. so the best way to introduce a new player to the story is by putting a new commander into that story. Imagine how you feel when you do the tutorial missions. you have Delphine (i forget her name in Elite, but its the voice actress from skyrim) fixing your ship, and walking you through basic controls. at the end of the mission, right before you fly towards the station, she says something to the effect of "This is the first of many times we'll be working together." this is the best option for a NPE. Have us work with her, or even some other NPC to run a short (by elite standards) campaign to introduce us to the super powers, to the pilots federation, to the thargoid threat, and more importantly ship management and how to use the galaxy map. missions reward modules, and tutorials show how to outfit a ship. as you progress through this campaign, you upgrade your side winder, and by the end of this NPE you have a fully A-rated sidewinder with a piece of mail indicating the first set of engineers being unlocked. at this point a new player should be fully prepared to play in open without fear of gankers. (i guess i didnt mention it earlier, but evaision should be one of the missions in the tutorial quest line, as people still play solo for not knowing how to evade gankers.)

This would allow for FDev to introduce story based campaign style community events, and even full expainsions. as it stands, the only updates since release have been game building. i think we're all pretty comfortable with the engine, its time to see some stroy introduced to this great work in progress.

 

[EDanaII]

I dunno... you can call it "Little Happy Unicorn Land" and I'll still choose it over Open any day.

 

[waylork]

what do yall even do in solo? i feel like early game is prep for end game, and end game is AX/pvp. at some point dont you have to start playing open?