Suggestion Thread: 'Experimental' VR Branch

[VR Golgot]

Hey all,

I've started the following thread in the Suggestion forum:

'Experimental' VR branch for Odyssey launch

Please go and debate it there if you'd like to bring that possibility to the dev's attention.

---

Just to explain my position though:

Given the public announcements to date, I think it's pretty obvious that FDev are not going suddenly flip and pursue a full fat VR implementation for launch. Nor do they suggest that the bleed over of Odyssey tech to Horizons will be significant. (In fact, they say it's best to imagine there won't be any).

The two blockers they’ve mentioned in passing are hitting a high enough quality bar by launch, and dealing factors like nausea. IE:

• "we had to re-examine if we could deliver that same experience without compromise"

&

• "...you have to get it really right, because people can get motion sickness and everything else, and all this other stuff"

An experimental branch dodges some of those concerns (until such time as they can be tackled).

It comes with none of the issues of them having to hit current market standards or best practices in FPS / RPG / Walking Sim games etc. (IE: motion controllers / hand interaction / bespoke UI for multiplayer etc etc). As such they could put more minimal resourcing into getting a more basic, experimental product into our hands for launch.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

I think it's a small fallacy that the VR needs to be perfect, and unlike from 2015 there has been a lot of experimenting towards what works in VR and not. In short, go play half life Alyx.
Yes I think teleport is a dreadful copout, but for some it will need to be present, it can be the training wheels option.

I would just want the in ship to be as is, basically snap to neck, and support 6dof tracking.

 

[VR Golgot]

I think it's a small fallacy that the VR needs to be perfect, and unlike from 2015 there has been a lot of experimenting towards what works in VR and not. In short, go play half life Alyx.
Yes I think teleport is a dreadful copout, but for some it will need to be present, it can be the training wheels option.

I would just want the in ship to be as is, basically snap to neck, and support 6dof tracking.

There’s a difference between perfect and antiquated though right

I think it’s pretty clear that the Legs aspect is the likely blocker here. (Certainly the CM talk of nausea etc speaks to that: "you have to get it really right, because people can get motion sickness and everything else". And Legs are the largest novel change in all the feature lists to date).

FDev are suggesting they can’t commit to the level of dev required to sort through all that. To get the industry standard solutions into the game, as seen in Alyx etc. (And there is a cascade of dev here. If you want the modern spread of nausea mitigation options, you want motion controllers, for teleport, or controller relative motion, or what have you. If you have motion controller FPS, you normally need IK arms to relay those motions in 'realistic looking' multiplayer environment etc. Etc etc.)

So my suggestion is: Do the basic. Just use the standard flatscreen control scheme they’re working on now. End up with a system that is essentially antiquated, and bad at mitigating nausea, but that works for VR veterans. Release it as an experimental branch alone.

Because it’s better than nothing

 

[aXeL]

Given the public announcements to date, I think it's pretty obvious that FDev are not going suddenly flip and pursue a full fat VR implementation for launch. Nor do they suggest that the bleed over of Odyssey tech to Horizons will be significant. (In fact, they say it's best to imagine there won't be any).

I'm going to challenge you on the 'suddenly flip and persue a full fat VR implementation'. Where is your evidence that they were not already trying to make this work? In the announcement you cited, FDev themselves said they had to 're-examine' not 'examine' their approach i.e. they reached a point where they decided that they couldn't get the same experience in VR despite being, as they put it, 'big fans of VR'. Was this during the white boarding sessions, design, coding, unit testing, dev int, SIT? Did they get all the way and realise there are significant performance issues that just cannot be overcome on current platforms? If they're the 'big fans' they say they are, it's highly unlikely this got tossed out at the start ergo, based on their position on VR, it's much more likely that work has happened.

Or does the whole thing work perfectly but because VR users can calibrate their viewpoints 100 feet in the air, in windows, they get a massive unfair advantage in first person combat and FDev said 'no', we can't have this.

Unless anyone has information to the contrary, I've seen no information at all from FDev which allows me to even infer, at what point in the design, dev, test, deployment cycle they paused the VR release of Odyssey.

In fact, I will go further. Show me evidence that it's not the first MVP on the backlog for the next Sprint cycle, post release.

BTW Golgot, this is not a dig at you ( just in case it comes across as one! o7 ). I look at the press releases and announcements as well but, personally, I don't see data to support any conclusions about how far Odyssey VR progressed without making some big, unqualified, assumptions.

Given the VR fanboys in ED ( and we know they're there ), I would speculate that it's more likely that there is a code branch for the fanboys who want to make VR work.

 

[VR Golgot]

I'm going to challenge you on the 'suddenly flip and persue a full fat VR implementation'. Where is your evidence that they were not already trying to make this work?

You've missed out a key bit of my claim there aXeL. I said: 'I think it's pretty obvious that FDev are not going suddenly flip and pursue a full fat VR implementation for launch.'

As you say, we have no idea what level of dev they've put into the VR side of Odyssey to date. What their statements make clear though is that there's no plan to pursue a VR-ready product, of the desired standard, for launch.

If there is initial or ongoing work in place (and I'm not contesting the possibility), then so much the better. It would all be a perfect fit for an experimental branch

 

[aXeL]

You've missed out a key bit of my claim there aXeL. I said: 'I think it's pretty obvious that FDev are not going suddenly flip and pursue a full fat VR implementation for launch.'

As you say, we have no idea what level of dev they've put into the VR side of Odyssey to date. What their statements make clear though is that there's no plan to pursue a VR-ready product, of the desired standard, for launch.

If there is initial or ongoing work in place (and I'm not contesting the possibility), then so much the better. It would all be a perfect fit for an experimental branch

I did indeed, you're dead right!

 

[VR Golgot]

Added this bit to the OP, as I think it clarifies on of the key objectives in pushing for an experi branch:

The two blockers they’ve mentioned in passing are hitting a high enough quality bar by launch, and dealing factors like nausea. IE:

• "we had to re-examine if we could deliver that same experience without compromise"

&

• "...you have to get it really right, because people can get motion sickness and everything else, and all this other stuff"

An experimental branch dodges some of those concerns (until such time as they can be tackled).

 

[Darakin]

Hello. First ol all let me tell you that I appreciate all the work and love that was put into the game over the last years. I started with the beta and the game has come a long way since then. The first 2 years I played the game non-vr and Elite was the main reason I bought an Oculus Rift. The game is simply not the same in VR. I could not believe the first time I really was in my cockpit. When I read about the new addon I was really excited but sadly that soon turned into disappointment when I read that it would not support VR. I simply cant imagine to go back to non-vr and I honestly wont. If it meas that Im stuck with Horizon then so be it. I dont expect a motion controller for Elite, never did but I believe not support VR is taking a step back. It is one of the things that made the game different from other space explorations games. I hope that Frontier will see this as well. Kind regards.