Just on this point.
For me I would much rather Frontier fix the above by improving ED's group management system rather than threats of bans that may or may not be carried out.
Sure they're not exclusive and Frontier may be working on improvements, but the way I see it people have been asking for better group management for over a year and it just hasn't happened. If it finally does happen it'll turn out SDC have caused some temporary butt hurt (where the outrage was waaay out of proportion compared to the actual damage) in exchange for some much wanted permanent improvements to the game.
If fixes happen yes you could argue that they happened despite SDC but I can;t help feeling tht in the end this is just a game, and as such the end can justify the means.
I do feel we almost need groups like SDC, players really need to push the boundaries of the game in all sorts of ways points to act as a catalyst for improvements.
Some things may not be fixable but if the preferred solution to players pushing limits is to ban then you're removing what essentially is a driving force for improvement.
David Braben himself in Lave Radio ep 100 said that players do the same thing over and over and it's frustrating because there's a bunch of undiscovered stuff out there, it seems your average player does not push the framework of the game. If no-one's pushing to breaking point then the game is just not gonna evolve.
Except that SDC aren't pushing anything in gameplay terms. They acted like jerks, they're on this thread defending their 'right' to act like jerks. FD just gave fair warning that they haven't granted anyone the 'right' to be a jerk.
In game play terms all they've done is blow up spaceships, something every player does at some point. They're not particularly creative in the way they do that, just bringing more and better armed ships to the happy slapping event than the victim has. It's how they did this that has upset our community; they haven't respected the simple, clear rules we all agreed to play by. We all know that's what happened, to claim otherwise is disingenuous. Their contribution to the group management issue is adding to the workload, bringing the need to deal with griefers lying their way into a private group to the fore. It's an unnecessary additional complication for the devs to have to deal with- if they weren't acting like jerks the team could concentrate on the issues they were working through before.
They're not a driving force for improvement, they're a drogue on progress, forcing development time and assets to be squandered on combating griefing that could be much better spent on almost any other aspect of the game.
Is there some game play mechanic that you believe they and only they have discovered? Some aspect of the game framework they've pushed to breaking point? Lying your way into a private group isn't a hard thing to do, in any walk of life, nor is picking on someone weaker than yourself, nor is disrupting a public event for your own purposes. None of these things have anything to do with our game's mechanics, all of them have a terrific impact on our game's reputation.
Bits, you want this game to be the best it possibly can be. That will only happen if sales remain strong and the development team are allowed to work on the game itself. If sales start to drop and they have to waste time inventing in game counters to people acting in an anti social manner, then the game won't get the chance to evolve into what we all want it to.
There are many, many depths to this game, but as long as the same blinkered people keep looking in the same place with the same preconceived idea's then they will only find the depth they are looking for.
We are all pushing the limits of the game to find out where it lies but the majority are looking in a far wider area.
Quoted for truth. There are many aspects of the game that we haven't investigated; many players never will. That isn't a bad thing, as long as they're enjoying the game they absolutely should be allowed to play it their way. At the same time there are many players who are trying out new things, looking to see the effect their actions have, on PP, the BGS, their progress, their relationship with other player groups or whatever else holds their interest. These are all things we can do without going out of our way to grief our fellow players.
Cool. That's basically the same as Zac's original two eurocents:
So now we have four eurocents. Keep this up and we'll have enough for a Mars bar in a couple of weeks.
Agreed. There was a time when I believed that the mechanisms outlined for the game's design, coupled with the three equal modes, would negate the need for PvE flags or any other granular rules. Events of recent weeks, and the community's responses to them, have shown that no longer to be the case. The underdeveloped in-game mechanisms are wholly inadequate for dealing with antisocial and/or PK activities even within Private Groups. I'm not quite ready to join the rallying cry of those who demand a full PvE Open mode, because I know in the current climate it would utterly destroy Open play and Open play deserves better, longer term treatment. But for maintaining the integrity of Private Groups? PvE toggles would clarify the groups' rules and make life easier for both the admins and FD Support. Frontier need to swallow their collective pride and implement this now if the game is not to be dogged (see what I did there?) by repeat performances.
Now cue half a dozen people asking, "But how will this be implemented? Magic bullets? Magic shields? Magic trigger disablers? Any of those will break my immersion in a game that already has a hundred and fifty immersion-breaking things that I happily ignore." You know what? I don't care. Let FD decide on the mechanics. I just want to see group admins given the tools they need to pre-emptively deal with PKing, not just some airy-fairy promise that Support will help if things go south. Support should have better things to do with their time.
On that last part- in a private group, if such measures are in place to prevent members breaking the agreed rules, then the break in immersion can only come about when someone attempts to break the rules they agreed to play by. If a person suffers a break in immersion brought about by their own actions, I can't really say I'm feeling much sympathy for the liar at this point...
