But there is nothing at all in Zac's post that suggests 'pvp' in open is a problem. Nothing. Not one word.
So why are you using it as an excuse for this drama?
News Support update - Reiteration of player harassment rules
- Thread starter Zac Antonaci
- Start date
But there is nothing at all in Zac's post that suggests 'pvp' in open is a problem. Nothing. Not one word.
So why are you using it as an excuse for this drama?
Because for them distrupting and owning noobs *is* PvP. Casual PvP with role playing? Naah, where's fun in that.
Chance I don't think anyone here has a problem with what happens in Open, just what was brought to a private group in the name of lolz; a private group with specific rules regarding PvP that you or the members of a specific group intentionally joined with the aim of breaking those rules. You do remember that don't you? That was after all what started this.
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Yeah, that's what's so funny! I run a group that people constantly accuse of griefing but we actually do stick to the rules and don't pull crap like infiltrating Private Groups. That's hardly sporting, and I prefer to hunt CMDRs for sport, not engage in baby seal clubbing. We're actually a very newbie friendly group, since one does not hunt game to extinction but restocks the area from time to time for conservation efforts. It's the Circle of Life!
The most Correct and Good interpretation of the OP (which is clearly mine) doesn't impact people like me at all.
I repped your post earlier and although I've never run across your group I know who you are and what you do. I agree with you completely, I can't see anything at all in this statement that would give you any cause for concern.
I find it bizarre that anybody would think someone expressing the sentiments I have done in this thread might think I was anti-pvp because the statement has nothing to do with simply engaging in pvp to begin with.
As I said it's just a bunch of people being deliberately disingenuous to try to make people think that they will never be able to shoot another player again without getting a hurt feelings disclaimer signed first. Revisiting this thread in a month or two should be amusing to see just how many people who suggested the possibility have actually had a ban for simply shooting another player with no other factors involved; I'm entirely confident that it will be zero.
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Hey folks...please note something here...seriously.
The only folks who are upset by this statement are members of certain groups who've done exactly what the statement says isn't going to be tolerated going forward, literally, that's the only folks upset by this, note the names please.
NONE of the actual PvPers are against this, because this is NOT what PvPers are about, this is NOT what PvPers do, this is PURELY AND TOTALLY a thing griefers do, that's it, no one else, JUST griefers.
The statement has nothing to do with PvP, it is about griefing and harassment, which is exactly what these folks do, they know it, and know they've been put on notice that if they continue, they'll be punished for it and that scares the bejesus out of them because they know it only applies to the they do and that's it, it's rather specific after all, and WHO does that things? Look at who's complaining, look at who's done these actions and been very proud of doing them up to now...not so proud now are they...'I know who did it, wasn't ME, I didn't think it was a good idea'...how many times is that repeated by so many of them in this thread? A few days ago, they would have said 'I was there, man, you should have heard them whining', it's in their forums, their reddits, their youtube video comments, but now that FD has made this statement...rats/sinking ship/no honor among thieves all spring to mind here.
Again, these aren't PvPers, these are griefers, pure and simple, they know it, we know it, FD knows it and has finally had enough of their , FD has given them multiple chances to figure it out but they are griefers, they don't care until they find out their actions WILL have actual repercussions.
Me, I'm thinking we'll see something stupid from them again, probably soon, and FD will need to ban a few of them to make the point. Negative PR from this costs them thousands of potential customers, banning a few dozen idiots costs them nothing, do the math....
The only folks who are upset by this statement are members of certain groups who've done exactly what the statement says isn't going to be tolerated going forward, literally, that's the only folks upset by this, note the names please.
NONE of the actual PvPers are against this, because this is NOT what PvPers are about, this is NOT what PvPers do, this is PURELY AND TOTALLY a thing griefers do, that's it, no one else, JUST griefers.
The statement has nothing to do with PvP, it is about griefing and harassment, which is exactly what these folks do, they know it, and know they've been put on notice that if they continue, they'll be punished for it and that scares the bejesus out of them because they know it only applies to the they do and that's it, it's rather specific after all, and WHO does that things? Look at who's complaining, look at who's done these actions and been very proud of doing them up to now...not so proud now are they...'I know who did it, wasn't ME, I didn't think it was a good idea'...how many times is that repeated by so many of them in this thread? A few days ago, they would have said 'I was there, man, you should have heard them whining', it's in their forums, their reddits, their youtube video comments, but now that FD has made this statement...rats/sinking ship/no honor among thieves all spring to mind here.
Again, these aren't PvPers, these are griefers, pure and simple, they know it, we know it, FD knows it and has finally had enough of their , FD has given them multiple chances to figure it out but they are griefers, they don't care until they find out their actions WILL have actual repercussions.
Me, I'm thinking we'll see something stupid from them again, probably soon, and FD will need to ban a few of them to make the point. Negative PR from this costs them thousands of potential customers, banning a few dozen idiots costs them nothing, do the math....
Just on this, I'm sure they actually mean a great deal. They just don't mean that a player gets to buy themselves out of the rules applying to them. Not the first time I've seen people fail to grasp that fact in an online game and I'm sure it won't be the last.
Indeed.
And while we're at it, it's worth pointing this out again. (come to think of it, worth posting on every page here)
Two plain and simple statements that says it all. Straight enough, right to the point, should be easily comprehensible.
And still, look at all the fuss. "Law suit, EULA, end of freedom and the world as we know it..." Yaargh attitude, exactly like while playing.
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Totally disagree.
Auto-painting people who might have concerns with Zac's statement as harassers ain't cool.
Then "note the names please"?
The forums are a place for discussion not a place for trying to demonize folk who might have criticisms.
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Indeed, I gave you rep for reposting Mobius' statement since I can't rep him twice
And it's a simple fact, negative PR costs potential customers, banning idiots gains you potential customers since they see that being anti-social in an MMO style game isn't allowed, and that's a selling point to many people. EvE has a hell of time getting new blood into the game because it has the worst rep in the gaming industry and communities for it's open acceptance and approval of griefing, that's a fact. They hit 500k player once, highest number they ever hit, but they've done nothing but lose them since that time, which was over 3 years ago. ANYONE who says that doing things like CCP does in them EvE will bring customers is lying, the exact opposite is the reality and they know it, that's why they are here and not playing EvE. Star Citizen is also a very bad example to toss out right now, since they just started the security stuff, and it works nicely. I picked up someone in my Freelancer, they got in my rear turret and blew up their own ship, suddenly I'm a bad guy! Flew over where some security ships were, they fired on me right away because, hey, I'm a bad guy! Chris Roberts feels like David Braben does when it comes to allowing players to play however they want, go for it, but there will be consequences! CIG is testing those now, and they're doing a good job so far(needs better security ships, my Lancer can turn them into scrap with a few shots). FD has stated they are going to revamp that system in Elite: Dangerous, here's to them getting it right! And BOTH David and Chris dislike griefers rather strongly(that's being polite btw), so expecting to get away with that kind of in either game...yeah...no, good luck with that, can I haz ur stuffz in SC too?
Rinzler o7o7o7
Banned
My only regret is that I can only rep this once
I'm not seeing criticism, I'm seeing , what criticism are you speaking of? The statement is pretty clear, certain actions aren't going to be allowed, those actions have literally only been done by a select few and those are the ones screaming out against the statement and trying to make it something other than what it is. I'll call a spade a spade no matter what people think of that.
Cool so address the argument don't generalise by saying anyone with concerns is guilty.
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You're not happy with Frontier's statement?
Oh dear, you are upset? Presumably because people don't want to play your way?
I think he is more convinced by the PvP commenters here in this thread that Open is obviously their playground. So as no kind of "consequences" for the attaackers matter to the ganked one he decides to be not in a mode where such vile persons wander around.
[edit: at least thats the vibe I get of the PvP posters here.]
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That's nail on head, right there. In the Lave Radio podcast DBOBE referanced a nightmare statistic for any game developer- each griefer cost another game company fifty customers, they haemorrhaged so many players they completely rewrote their game to stop it happening. If you have a ten year plan that depends on fresh sales you simply can't afford to have your reputation tarnished. No amount of rationalisation changes the fact that the youtube gamer community now think of ED as the game where charity streamers got ganked. Three years of positive publicity went down the pan for a few minutes of lulz for less than twenty self confessed griefers. The only surprise I feel is that FD haven't just handed them their refund and told them to never come back. I suspect their concern is less for SDC and much more for player groups who may be concerned that their valid, but unpopular, game play style may be threatened with the ban hammer.
Either you really don't understand, in which case I apologise for being mean, or you're being painfully intellectually dishonest. The level of cognitive dissonance required to wilfully fail to understand why a community reacts badly to bullying and vandalism is staggering.
Back to that Lave podcast- DBOBE mentioned a ghost server. Zac's announcement is clearly worded fair warning. I know what my money is on happening next...
Yep, with you 100% on that. Here's a thought. In real life bullies always have great reasons for their behaviour, it was always the victims fault and the bully always tries to make out that they're the real victim. If someone acts that way on line, what do you suppose that makes them? :O
[yesnod]
'Happy slapping' is against the law in the UK- those indulging in it will be hit with assault, harassment and telecommunications offences. Just filming the assault usually warrants around six months, the assaulter will get more depending on the severity of the attack. This is the culture FD grew up in, this is the way they tend to think of bullying and harassment issues. SDC, based mainly in California, would do well to take in some of the less savoury character flaws our misty isle suffers from and the commonly held attitudes to them, before pulling the Tiger's tail...
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Your own actions is the proof? so yeah, it is quite easy to prove...end.
As for refund, no, nope, not going to happen, not even if you go to your back, chargebacks in general only happen within a certain time limit, and same with refunds, if you've been playing elite for say a full week in game time, or similar, then no, you are not going to get a refund, and the bank, who takes chargebacks very serious, because you are basically accusing the other side of fraud. Will very likely not be happy when they find out the reasoning, and you can argue with them to heck and back about your supposed innocence, because accusing someone of fraud without it being the case is illegal around the world, so yeah, go for it, if you really believe that you'll win the situation and not end up in a bad situation.
They get it, they get it entirely, the point of arguments like this, are in general to muddle the topic, hide relevant posts within a cloud of general no relevant posts, and eventually get the topic closed, and they consider that a 'win' and they even consider it 'win' if they get people to stop posting. Seen before, over so many years of gaming, it is nothing new.
Eventually the game will adapt so that they can't keep doing what they do the way they want to, and they will move on to another game, and entirely work to discredit the game they left for being unfair and similar towards them, all the blame onto the dev of the game they left, and praise this new game, until cycle repeats. It is plain and simply sad.
+rep.
I keep sayin this since july 2015:
Certain players in open are only there to destroy the game and when that gets to hard to achive they move on to the next game to destroy. These are to be dealt with BEFORE they can do any serious harm to an otherwise healthy (altho sometimes bugged) game.