#support3rdparty - Why we temporarily shut down our sites.

[Chrysophylax]

again playing the "No Pay" card, when you are volunteering you dont expect anything in return, no support, no pay, no pat on your shoulder. If you are expecting that its maybe time to stop "volunteering" and let other people fill your space.

What? They aren't expecting kudos from FDev.

The expectation is that the mechanisms FDev provides don't stop working without a warning or reasoning. The relationship between Elite and the tools is symbiotic, not parasitic. I'm sure the third-party devs would rather have a straight up 'no, stay away, we don't like you' instead of months on end of no communication after being promised communication.

FDev doing that is disrespectful of what these tools provide for the community. Goes double when they publicize those tools in the newsletter. It's not as simple as simple volunteering. There's a dynamic at play here.

 

[szopin]

...
This is funny. On one hand you claim the tools are totally unnecessary, then you claim taking them away does damage to an in-game event. Which is it? If you really think the tools aren't necessary, then you should have no beef.
...

If you look at this thread, by being able to quickly search for answers looks like most people are unaware of tools existing in game (like looking for high tech systems for modules, or checking trade routes in the surrounding systems), so it hurts mostly those people who never went through the learning process. The tools are useful (when my time is limited will also use inara to cheat through the search), noone disputes that, but not essential and the way it all went down is also questionable

 

[shaunpond]

very sad that it's come to this: when I saw that EDDI (for example) failed after 2.3 came out because of an undocumented change in a log format, I understood the pain of the 3rd party developers playing catch-up all the time. As a developer (not from FD) once said to me "if we document the APIs, we have to stick to them, and keep them working, if we don't document them, we can change them how we like".

 

[Zcorruption]

There are 3rd party tools!?

Joking

I hope they write this into the new book. Sloane uses her contacts in the data distribution network corporations to launch an all out worlforce strike giving her the cloak required to have a slim chance of succeeding!

 

[Madrax573]

Strike action never results in an overall better outcome. Anyone around during the miner strikes in the 70's will tell you that.

This is completely the wrong way to get better engagement with FD.

I do think they have a reasonable argument but but putting it into a 'do as we ask or else' situation just leads to more issues.

If I was FD I'd just stop public access to an API. ED does NOT NEED 3rd party tools to be playable.

 

[xondk]

Most people stopped playing the game because they weren't there when we needed them....

Plain and simply not true.

 

[Akarana]

I think it would be to everyone's benefit to see an improved relationship between the third party developers and FD. As an explorer, I find tools like EDDiscovery, EDDB, EDSM, EDMC, EDDI, Coriolis and Inara greatly enhance my experience of playing the game.

 

[through the hole backwards]

I support this and understand the third party development frustration , but, these site were designed and made voluntarily, many players have come to rely on them to bolster information available in the game and as such the third party site are a vital element for fluid gameplay. To simply deny players the ability to access that which they have come to rely on is punishing the players rather than Frontier Developments , who, at the end of the day don't have to do diddly squat about this. If for whatever reason the developers of the third party software are unable to persuade FD to bend to their will , so what ?Why should we have to be on the receiving end of that frustration? There is enough salt being hurled around at the moment and adding more to the pile can not be good for the developers of ED , the developers of third party programmes, the players , and most importantly , the game.

 

[vadash]

This apps are completely essential for a lot of us, the vast majority of this tools should be ingame but if you (FDEV) don´t implement them you at least can develop a full API for all those developers allow developers create that magnific tools.

 

[Paramemetic]

again playing the "No Pay" card, when you are volunteering you dont expect anything in return, no support, no pay, no pat on your shoulder. If you are expecting that its maybe time to stop "volunteering" and let other people fill your space.

They are exactly doing that, that is what a strike is. Are you unfamiliar with strikes?

 

[LameoveR]

No negotiations with terrorists.

 

[Infidel Deity]

I really think you are overreacting here... Take a deep breath and read the stuff back, take another breath...
To me, I would say the game would become unplayable for new players and all the current players would scarsely try soemthing new


Again, take a deep breath, and reread this. This is not a battle and it is not a game where you can win or lose... This is a conflict, and if we do not settle it by discussing it, we take another approach, like a strike. That way, we make a statement and after that we discuss it again and hopefully, the others side will be more coöperative.

You have seen to many movies or you are overreacting: this is just a conflict and has nothing to do with blackmail, terrorists or things of that nature; please do not make this bigger than it is... You're escalating this out of proportions

He is overreacting, indeed.

 

[Hooplah]

April 1995...

Frontier: First Encounters was released too early as the distributor GameTek wanted to get it out and ended up with many bugs that made it impossible to complete. Frontier later released some patches but it was still very bugged. That is where the fan base came in, got the game working and supported it for decades with little or no communication with the company. Not once did they ever boycott their websites and what they had provided for the users to make a communications point with Frontier.

The #support3rdparty has chosen their course of action for better or worse. Hopefully they thought this out and while better would be great they are also prepared to accept the worse. Frontier will be reading the posts and the replies of their users. While they certainly have some communications issues and programming difficulties they are a much larger company with many more resources than ever thought compared to 1995. The bottom line is what Frontier's future plans are for Elite Dangerous and whether or not they consider 3rd party applications support essential.

If yes then I see a developing relationship between the two groups. If no it may be an initial temporary setback but Frontier could certainly develop their own website or later in-game resources with awesome search, community, training and support features ever designed. Either way the users will eventually benefit.

Personally I feel there may be a chance that you have cut your own throats. While your intentions are for the good this action will leave a bad feeling with many developers as well as the users. I might suggest that arguing with those who disagree on the thread isn't going to help develop a relationship with Frontier. You made your stand so it would probably be better to just let the comments fall where they may. A player's position on a given issue rarely changes around here.

We'll see how it all turns out.

Regards

 

[wrmiller]

When I first received the game (last Christmas) I spent approx. a month fumbling around trying to figure out how the game works. In game help and the manual are of little help with much other than the basics. I was getting frustrated almost to the point of shelving this game, when I decided to (as a last resort) go online and see if I could find any help.

NOTE: I've never had to do this before in all of my game playing going back to the early '80s

Then I found this site. And quickly realized that intentional by FD or otherwise, this was the only way I was going to learn many of the mechanisms used in playing this game. Then I heard about INARA and a few other websites, and things really started making sense. I reset my character, started over, and had a much more enjoyable time with the game.

Without these tools I wouldn't be playing this game today as apparently FD expects folks to just read the paltry manual they provide and consider themselves 'good to go'. But without them (third party tools), I am doubtful I'll be playing tomorrow.

This whole mess is very confusing, personally, and could have roots in some societal perspectives I as a foreigner am unaware of. I will wait and see what comes of this.

 

[pprovart]

Elite Dangerous is a great game, and a platform for really exploring the Galaxy. Bu twhat it lacks, has been provided by these 3rd Party tools with many personal hours invested.

The Sucess of the game will dpend on the functionality and value thats embedded within the tools, so if FD arent providing then please make it easy for this team of peole to easily con tinue with thier passion.

Make things easy for the community to continue to play the game, easier to enjoy, rather than harder.. Fully supported, even if it means im without the tools i need.

I took to twitter to Voice support to @FrontierDev and @DavidBraben ...#EliteDangerous

 

[ShadowWolf Kell]

You can't deny that this was deliberately timed to cause as much damage to this event as possible. Like Airport workers striking just as the holiday season is about to start. Obviously not the trade tools would be used but EDDB and the Galaxy map tools would have made it a lot easier to co-ordinate people within the event.

The demands aren't that outrageous, but I think they would have had more support if they hadn't timed it during the 29th Event and when 2.3 was stable.

Hyperbole imo. I'm sure Discord will manage just fine organizing and coordinating. Those coordinating are likely using in game book marks that were pre-scouted or pre-planned.

There is no overarching conspiracy to shut down Salomé via 3rd party strikes. In fact, I think you'll find many of her greatest supporters will likely be supporting this movement.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I really think you are overreacting here... Take a deep breath and read the stuff back, take another breath...
To me, I would say the game would become unplayable for new players and all the current players would scarsely try soemthing new


Again, take a deep breath, and reread this. This is not a battle and it is not a game where you can win or lose... This is a conflict, and if we do not settle it by discussing it, we take another approach, like a strike. That way, we make a statement and after that we discuss it again and hopefully, the others side will be more coöperative.

You have seen to many movies or you are overreacting: this is just a conflict and has nothing to do with blackmail, terrorists or things of that nature; please do not make this bigger than it is... You're escalating this out of proportions

Ugh... despite my disclaimer.

Once again, principles, not scale.

 

[PogueMaHoon]

They are exactly doing that, that is what a strike is. Are you unfamiliar with strikes?

Strikes, and logic.

 

[Pyrobee]

Don't knoiw why people think the sky has fallen in on this, it's not like all the 3rd party sites are down.

 

[pipo zelvelder]

What support can be offered? I don't get it. Before these sites were taken down, well, as far as I could tell, the tools were working properly. Brilliantly, I'll hazard.
Define support. What is needed when the tools work so well already.
I'm particularly carped off by EDCD going down. There was nothing to add. It represents every single ship variable in the current build. What support can make something that wasn't broken, "better"?

You're clearly missing the point here: The site has gone down, to make sure the site can be up in the future longer, and if FD decides to add The Shark as a new ship, EDCD will have the opportunity to add "The Shark" to the site... it is that simple