Surely they dont need to nerf everything existing to promote the new stuff?

[Aashenfox]

Ye know ye can still complete the mission in a ship right? Regardless...if its working as intended then thats cool, no skin off my nose still a very easy 6m fer 10 minutes work even though I lose the srv in the process. I adapted to that and carry two.

The likes of invading a base to scan fer the location of a target costs an srv too, most of the time which means if ye only carry a single srv, ye cant stack them. Well ye can but theres no point if ye lose the srv anyway.

Way I see it is that when the nerfs were coming thick and fast, the issue of board flipping and instance refreshing got worse to try and compensate...so really all thats happened is that one issue has been replace by a different issue and theres a daily salt mountain on the forums to wade through as a result. Its certainly a very different approach but however...Im happy enough because Ill just adapt either way ^

Yes, I'm very proud of my technique personally, I still find these almost fun. They don't pay enough for the effort any more though, I need to really want to do it.

FWIW, my technique does not endanger the SRV at all.

I arrive, fly around, assess the targets, locate the power supplies. When that's done I take out the power supplies and any turrets that are still firing. Then I take out any local patrols (gaining notoriety, annoying), the two or three skimmers that are already spawned and/or a goliath. If the base has Goliaths, it's party time, just stay in the ship and keep on taking out the goliaths (they count as skimmer kills) each time they spawn (Goliaths still spawn constantly, with or without landing). If there are no Goliaths, land in the middle of the base, drop the SRV, wait exactly 2 seconds (so it never leaves the safety of my mother ships shields), then raise the SRV, take off again and shoot the new spawns. Repeat until mission quota done.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I don't assume anything, I defined VERY clearly what is a fix and what is a nerf and even cited using example relating to specific cases. No assumption required. These missions were nerfed, when they could have been 'fixed' instead.

Matter of opinion as far as I am concerned no matter what you state, because you do not know what FDev think on the matter.

 

[verminstar]

Yes, I'm very proud of my technique personally, I still find these almost fun. They don't pay enough for the effort any more though, I need to really want to do it.

FWIW, my technique does not endanger the SRV at all.

I arrive, fly around, assess the targets, locate the power supplies. When that's done I take out the power supplies and any turrets that are still firing. Then I take out any local patrols (gaining notoriety, annoying), the two or three skimmers that are already spawned and/or a goliath. If the base has Goliaths, it's party time, just stay in the ship and keep on taking out the goliaths (they count as skimmer kills) each time they spawn (Goliaths still spawn constantly, with or without landing). If there are no Goliaths, land in the middle of the base, drop the SRV, wait exactly 2 seconds (so it never leaves the safety of my mother ships shields), then raise the SRV, take off again and shoot the new spawns. Repeat until mission quota done.

There is another aspect thats been nerfed. Used to be able to do them without even going near the base simply by searching out the surround surface POI...in the past could always find enough skimmers to complete the mission and still wouldnt be withing 10km of the base itself.

That example you gave...hmm ye Ive tried that a couple times although damned near lost the ship. Killed the generators np but when I attacked the navy fighters, they called in reinforcements which just made a bad situation so much worse.

Its the fact the base boundary now starts at 2km from the base...in an srv, this is just a nightmare of a mission sometimes. Ive lost srv just trying to get to the base, never mind killing the skimmers but the base itself aint the problem...its the navy fighters constantly circling overhead that are the biggest problem. Once they latch onto the srv, getting away is unlikely and I just find a corner in the base and wait fer the skimmers to come to me...which thankfully they do. Escape however is quite literally futile so I just complete the mission and go make a cuppa while the navy do what they do best...dont even try and escape anymore as its a stretch on the patience after multiple failures.

Ergo why Im always on the lookout fer alternatives even if it means gaming the game as it were ^

 

[rp198419]

I have made some related points here:https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ry-missions-for-solo-players-with-large-ships

By reducing worthwhile solo delivery missions in favour of wing missions - in what appears to be an attempt to funnel players into wing/group play-mode - FD have made having a large ship absolutely pointless.

 

[Aashenfox]

Matter of opinion as far as I am concerned no matter what you state, because you do not know what FDev think on the matter.

A difference in definition is not a matter of opinion, no matter how far or not your concern goes. Do I sound like I care what FD think of the matter? I think nerfing them instead of fixing them was bad form.

There is another aspect thats been nerfed. Used to be able to do them without even going near the base simply by searching out the surround surface POI...in the past could always find enough skimmers to complete the mission and still wouldnt be withing 10km of the base itself.

That example you gave...hmm ye Ive tried that a couple times although damned near lost the ship. Killed the generators np but when I attacked the navy fighters, they called in reinforcements which just made a bad situation so much worse.

Its the fact the base boundary now starts at 2km from the base...in an srv, this is just a nightmare of a mission sometimes. Ive lost srv just trying to get to the base, never mind killing the skimmers but the base itself aint the problem...its the navy fighters constantly circling overhead that are the biggest problem. Once they latch onto the srv, getting away is unlikely and I just find a corner in the base and wait fer the skimmers to come to me...which thankfully they do. Escape however is quite literally futile so I just complete the mission and go make a cuppa while the navy do what they do best...dont even try and escape anymore as its a stretch on the patience after multiple failures.

Ergo why Im always on the lookout fer alternatives even if it means gaming the game as it were ^

Ah, yes, I was aware of this method, but would have been unlikely to do it due to time consumption, but thanks for the heads up. FWIW, when I find a base with no patrol (or one that never takes off, also common), try to stick to it to make a few bucks. Notoriety is a beach, but hey, I never had one call in reinforcements...perhaps that is because I only take them to attack independent factions that aren't in control of a system (cos I value my superpower rep)?


As for that last sentence, I think we all do now. It should be in the manual. "When the game presents you with an unusually good offer, take it and take it again and again until it gets nerfed. There's a good capitalist /headpat."

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

A difference in definition is not a matter of opinion, no matter how far or not your concern goes. Do I sound like I care what FD think of the matter? I think nerfing them instead of fixing them was bad form.

And if Fdev does not see it as a nerf but a fix then your definition is in fact wrong. So all you are doing is spouting an opinion as it is only FDev's thinking on this is whether it is a nerf or a fix.

What you are mean is that you think Fdev's fix was wrong. That is fine and we all have our opinions. I on the other hand may find it perfectly reasonable. It is an opinion and nothing more until FDev tell you and me otherwise.

 

[Aashenfox]

And if Fdev does not see it as a nerf but a fix then your definition is in fact wrong. So all you are doing is spouting an opinion as it is only FDev's thinking on this is whether it is a nerf or a fix.

What you are mean is that you think Fdev's fix was wrong. That is fine and we all have our opinions. I on the other hand may find it perfectly reasonable. It is an opinion and nothing more until FDev tell you and me otherwise.

So you just posted to me that my opinion is my own and you have one too.

Well, thanks for that, I'll carry on my day now feeling truly enlightened.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

So you just posted to me that my opinion is my own and you have one too.

Well, thanks for that, I'll carry on my day now feeling truly enlightened.

Glad you will. Good of you to admit that what you think is a nerf is just an opinion and not a fact now.

 

[Vedmo]

It sounds to me like you got used to very high payouts and it has soured the waters for anything doesn't match, which is entirely understandable.

Credit making/ship/rank progression in this game works in a way to condition us that way. At one point, your sitting there in your AspX drooling over not one, but two missions you can take, both making 3 million credits, after enough of those and in the next ship, you quickly skim past all those missions.

I agree some balancing on profession income would be nice, missions are king now by a long shot. I don't think an abundance of nerfs have ruined income in the game though. I thing gold Rushes have set unrealistic expectations and ruined perspectives.

 

[Aashenfox]

Glad you will. Good of you to admit that what you think is a nerf is just an opinion and not a fact now.

Jesus Christ.

Whether or not YOU think that what was implemented was a fix or a nerf, there IS a difference between fixing something and nerfing something. Allow me to clarify cos I can see you're really struggling...

You believe that by nerfing it they fixed it. I can see how a simple mind would say that, and be absolutely right in their own cute, simple way. I on the other hand think that the nerfing is not a fix, just a nerf and FD are capable of more elegant solutions.

Enough now. Let's just agree to disagree. As usual, after an exchange with you, the local dogs are in danger of getting kicked. Grats, I'm losing my patience, if that was your goal. You don't even have a point (beyond that you think everything's great with the perceived nerfs, not really helpful in the context of others discussing what they feel could be done better, in a fairly constructive way), you're just querying a definition. Mercy!!

 

[verminstar]

And if Fdev does not see it as a nerf but a fix then your definition is in fact wrong. So all you are doing is spouting an opinion as it is only FDev's thinking on this is whether it is a nerf or a fix.

What you are mean is that you think Fdev's fix was wrong. That is fine and we all have our opinions. I on the other hand may find it perfectly reasonable. It is an opinion and nothing more until FDev tell you and me otherwise.

Im not so sure about that...here we are with frontier telling us they value our time, yet with all the "fixes" and "rebalancing" and the plain old fashioned nerfing in some, not all cases, just happens to be just another excuse to waste time achieving the exact same thing as before.

Gotta just say max, they got a really weird way of backing their own words and statements up...they value our time and then think up lots of new ways to waste our time. How exactly is this explained?

This is why the counter argument to mission stacking and board flipping falls on deaf ears most the time, because to not game the game in such ways means to intentionally waste yer time...which is then yet another contradiction that frontier values our time.

Ye see the confusion here? Either they value our time or they dont...which is it? If they do then what exactly have they done to help save time?

 

[Clifra Jones]

Making money in ED as a general rule has never been easier, I agree, however, the extreme peaks and troughs of earning expectations has spoiled us.

I don't want to go to Maia to get good delivery missions, they should be all over. My favorite activities (bounty hunting and assassinating) are the worst payers in the game, and not only that, focusing on assassinations as away of life actually HINDERS your combat rank progress!

Perhaps I'm jaded now. There's no way int he world I'm picking up black boxes or art for 1m. There's no way I'm doing a 4 stop sightseeing tour for 2-4m. There's no way I'm doing any delivery of anything for less than a few million. CNP means the occasional illegal mission I would do are off the board now. Bounty hunting and massacres have never been more ridiculous (although last night, I saw 4m for massacring 16 pirates which I thought wasn't too bad).

If there was parity between the professions and a decent variety of missions available, it wouldn't be an issue. But when I log in one day and find a total of 12 missions that I can do, and none of them that I want to do, all paying crap, on a board with 6 allied factions, I just want to play something else.

I could not agree more Fox! Bounty Hunting, Assassination, and combat have always been the fun things I like to do. It i not just the money but Bounty Hunting in this game really needs a revamp. It has no relationship in any way to how a real bounty hunter would work but that is another subject. Combat missions are a joke now unless you have a fully outfitted Big 3 ship. I cannot do a 90 kill massacre mission in one night even in my FDL. I love combat in my Vipers but 90 kills on a week night is not doable in my vipers. It is stupid and that mission might pay 5Mc, not worth my time. I can easily make that doing other things

 

[verminstar]

I see massacre missions as broken beyond hope or redemption...take mission to kill 100 ships...go to target system and spend the next 4 hours getting half that number, and thats if yer lucky. Even if its the target faction, they dont register as mission targets which is just comical and doesnt make sense.

Much as I love combat missions, I avoid these like an STD because they really are a waste of time and always have been ^

 

[Clifra Jones]

Just did some skimmer missions...they all completed at the same time by hitting the base just once, which incidentally was the very reason they originally nerfed them by removing them fer a couple weeks. So someone wanna tell me exactly what they did fer those couple weeks? Cos fixed, they aint...they actually no different to before they were fixed.

As fer promoting new stuff...what new stuff? Guardians? No really no joking here...what new stuff do they need promoting so badly they nerf everything? Then again, going by the first line, what nerfs haha

Its really not that funny when ye think about it...there are ways around the nerfs...adjustments that can be made to compensate, like board flipping half a dozen times instead of just twice or relogging on a planetary scan to load a new instance which saves going back into sc, or occasionally finding little quirks in the bgs like the previously mentioned fixed skimmer missions that are actually exactly the same...

Game is what it is...either ye adapt to it or cry about how unfair it is...personally I just adapt or as some like to call it, gaming the game...works fer me ^

It has been my experience you can stack skimmer missions issued from different factions and the kill counts will coincide, if they are from the same faction then they are linear. i.e. 1 kill per mission.

 

[operant]

Ye see the confusion here? Either they value our time or they dont...which is it? If they do then what exactly have they done to help save time?

It could just be mis-interpretation.
Speculation, but if FD regard player-hours as an important business metric, then they definitely value our time (in game).
Just not the same as we do - in fact the polar opposite.

And despite the whaling and gnashing of teeth, I suspect it is working: we are 'all' on the engineering grind again spending hours collecting materials to re-engineering our already engineered ships; and then will probably do so again for the new guardian tech. Recognise a pattern here?

The astro-turfers/apologists/whiteknights/.... will say it is not necessary, which is logically true, but otherwise stupid.

 

[Aashenfox]

@Max Factor, peace offering. Scratch what I've said up to now. Irrelevant. Maybe we can find some common ground... Really, for me, the issue here is that the mission system is almost the only important game mechanic that hasn't changed much since beta, until now, in 3.0 where the rewards system was changed for the very much better. Don't you think all the missions, the way they're generated, the way they're presented, the way they're stacked, the quantity of them, balancing of payouts for professions to bring them all to a reasonable level, missions that reward based on difficulty more convincingly and more consistently, is worth hoping for? That's something worth asking for, right? Cos this thread falls right under that for me. It's one of my big hopes for beyond. I don't want to stand here piddling and moaning about one aspect of something that is so easy to poke holes in, and I especially don't want to argue about something so pointless. Big picture more important.

 

[Clifra Jones]

I see massacre missions as broken beyond hope or redemption...take mission to kill 100 ships...go to target system and spend the next 4 hours getting half that number, and thats if yer lucky. Even if its the target faction, they dont register as mission targets which is just comical and doesnt make sense.

Much as I love combat missions, I avoid these like an STD because they really are a waste of time and always have been ^

I believe you mean Pirate mission, Yeah, I see that also. Makes them worthless IMO. I also see a wing of 3 ships from the target faction but only 1 will register as mission target.

Combat, Pirate, base attack, Assassination missions all need a thorough reworking! They don't make sense and they are just SO arcade like. This is obviously very deeply rooted in the game code so it would be a lot of work I suppose.

 

[Bortas]

The fact is there are very few missions on the board (and NONE in a system I'm not already allied with everyone) that I feel are worth my time.

I'm not so sure that it's the game's fault. Once you are a multi billionaire there is little reason to do anything for less than beyond-ridiculous payouts, so everything with normal rewards appears worthless.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

@Max Factor, peace offering. Scratch what I've said up to now. Irrelevant. Maybe we can find some common ground... Really, for me, the issue here is that the mission system is almost the only important game mechanic that hasn't changed much since beta, until now, in 3.0 where the rewards system was changed for the very much better. Don't you think all the missions, the way they're generated, the way they're presented, the way they're stacked, the quantity of them, balancing of payouts for professions to bring them all to a reasonable level, missions that reward based on difficulty more convincingly and more consistently, is worth hoping for? That's something worth asking for, right? Cos this thread falls right under that for me. It's one of my big hopes for beyond. I don't want to stand here piddling and moaning about one aspect of something that is so easy to poke holes in, and I especially don't want to argue about something so pointless. Big picture more important.

100% agree mate. I also want to see all missions shareable. Basically all missions should be wing missions if you wish them to be and have the reward shared instead of duplicated (duplicated makes no logical sense), then add time based bonuses to encourage wing play to get them done faster. Then it would be easier to scale the rewards too instead of the current mismatch between normal missions and wing missions. Trade missions shouldn't pay you massively more then normal trade, but enough to make trade missions worth doing and then add time bonuses on top.

Mission wrinkles should be for other more interesting stuff. For instance they have asked you to take some cargo to a station, then en-route you get a message asking you to look for a ship of theirs that has gone missing in the vacinity for bonus credits. They send you the co-ordinates of where it was last at and the ships transponder signal. You head over to there and pick up the signal. You drop down to find destroyed remains of the ship. They ask you to pick up the black box and return it to them when convient. Then that can lead to a follow-on mission.

It would make it far more interesting if mission wrinkles were like missions themselves instead of little tacked on extras. If there was an escape pod you could pick that up and that gives you a mission to get revenge.

I would like to see where missions are received chopped up. All bounty hunting missions/contracts should go through the security contact. All smuggling of goods/people should go through the black market contact (there should be a black market in virtually every system that has some kind of security system in place). Black markets could have their own illegal factions each specialising in different black market items with a rep system. An annonymous dodgy contact for wetwork with a rep system in place, the more successful the more likely they will want to work with you and offer you better credits.

And most of the others through the relevant faction contact.

Combat missions should be scaled on difficulty.

 

[Aashenfox]

I'm not so sure that it's the game's fault. Once you are a multi billionaire there is little reason to do anything for less than beyond-ridiculous payouts, so everything with normal rewards appears worthless.

I got 200m mate. I'm an assassin. I do 5 assassinations a day, so in 2.4 that was 5x2.4m per session and now I do wing missions, it's 5x3.4m per session, I sometimes pop into a cnb just for the sake of high ranked targets to kill 10 or 20 ships for my combat rank, that also pays squat. My total assets for about 1.5 active years and 1 inactive, because of the way I play the game, not grinding exploits but being me, an interstellar assassin of evildoers, is nearly 1.5bn in about 9 ships, (one of them represents a third of that). After building my Corvette I hardly had the rebuy and decided I had to grind some credits, I decided to use skimmer missions and all was going well. Then skimmer missions went off the charts in 3.0 in terms of reward/effort and I managed to get one day of high paying skimmer missions in before they were nerfed. I was rather annoyed that day, I can tell you. Because my skimmer missions weren't the same ones others were exploiting, they required more effort, but rewarded (perhaps a little too) well. I really feel that I had good gameplay taken from me for the sake of others exploiting that day. A definite case of where a tweak was needed rather than a nerf bat.

I'd much rather earn more for combat to be honest.

P. S. I do get what you mean though, I don't mean to act all spoilt. Lol